Tech vs. Lit

[Bob]

How do you balance technical development with playing actual literature?  It seems like if I want more chops, I need to work technical exercises (or play a challenging etude poorly).  This wears me out and takes up my time for literature.  If I work on literature, my technique starts suffering. :-/

Any thoughts?

[pianistimo]

i'm curious what you look like worn out.

[canardroti]

I think this is a dilemma for all  musicians. 
We have to be able to do so many things at once that it does get frustrating, irritating and making us want to quit.
My teacher tells me to play very slowly.. i mean, SLOW like tempo  below 40.
I'd appreciate any advice as well.

[gorbee natcase]

I sorted this problem out a while ago with logic. Work on literature that you can handle and enjoy but devote a percentage of time to the less enjoyable asspects of your playing/i.e. technique.
The better you get, the more you forget how difficult piano was when you first began and perhaps even get a little lazy on pushing your technique once you have a comfort zone. Once upon a time even you must have found trills hard etc. You must be resolute

[whynot]

You can get better through the literature itself.  Improving your technique doesn't have to be a separate activity.  In fact, for most situations I think it's better that it NOT be separate.  My personal exceptions are a little octave work and a little scale work, and that's it.  No "drills" or etudes, except for etudes I actually want to play as literature (practically none).  Can you give an example of a specific aspect of playing that you'd like to improve, and also a specific piece or two that you'd like to play?  Maybe we could put some ideas together. 

[rc]

You can get better through the literature itself.  Improving your technique doesn't have to be a separate activity.  In fact, for most situations I think it's better that it NOT be separate.  My personal exceptions are a little octave work and a little scale work, and that's it.  No "drills" or etudes, except for etudes I actually want to play as literature (practically none).  Can you give an example of a specific aspect of playing that you'd like to improve, and also a specific piece or two that you'd like to play?  Maybe we could put some ideas together. 

The best reason I've seen for abstracting technique from literature was from Thalbergmad; something to the effect of "why should the piece suffer as I learn how to do this?". Personally, I don't mind doing some drills, mostly for the fact that I'm currently unable to do them. Knowing that certain technical drills will appear all over the place in music helps (scale runs, chords, arpeggios). But I really do like to be able to work on actual MUSIC that features these skills as well, one can take more pride, work harder and having something to show for it.

Just a thought from your question whynot, do you know of any pieces that feature some large arpeggios (octave +) that aren't too frustratingly difficult... intermediate material?

I sorted this problem out a while ago with logic. Work on literature that you can handle and enjoy but devote a percentage of time to the less enjoyable asspects of your playing/i.e. technique.
The better you get, the more you forget how difficult piano was when you first began and perhaps even get a little lazy on pushing your technique once you have a comfort zone. Once upon a time even you must have found trills hard etc. You must be resolute

I'm glad to hear that eventually I won't have to devote 2/3 of my practice to un-music . I do see the benefits of the pragmatic approach of technique through literature, but I agree that it's useful to isolate these 'techniques', so long as it's not some eternal burden and can eventually be a minimal part of ones time... It's such a dull pain in the asspect.

[whynot]

rc:  You can find ongoing large arpeggios in a lot of music.  Faure and Chopin used it all the time, Medtner slow pieces, some Brahms, Field, Barber, some of the Mendelssohn Songs w/o Words, some Schubert.  Well, Liszt, but you're looking for intermediate repertoire.  There is a wealth of lovely material on which to practice this particular skill, and if you choose someone who changes key a lot-- say, Faure or Chopin-- you'll get to practice big chords in practically every key and chord.  You can also take one of the classic patterns from the literature and just try it in every key yourself.  That's quite fun.  I'm always arguing against (much) technical practice that's isolated from actual pieces, but maybe I did more of that in early years than I thought.  It was a game.  I always wondered if I could figure out how to do things in different keys or rhythms just for fun, and I suppose this did serve as some technical practice too!  So maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.  I hate that.  But I think you could have a really good time working on the big-chord thing in any of the above.  Good luck!   

[rc]

rc:  You can find ongoing large arpeggios in a lot of music.  Faure and Chopin used it all the time, Medtner slow pieces, some Brahms, Field, Barber, some of the Mendelssohn Songs w/o Words, some Schubert.  Well, Liszt, but you're looking for intermediate repertoire.  There is a wealth of lovely material on which to practice this particular skill, and if you choose someone who changes key a lot-- say, Faure or Chopin-- you'll get to practice big chords in practically every key and chord.  You can also take one of the classic patterns from the literature and just try it in every key yourself.  That's quite fun.  I'm always arguing against (much) technical practice that's isolated from actual pieces, but maybe I did more of that in early years than I thought.  It was a game.  I always wondered if I could figure out how to do things in different keys or rhythms just for fun, and I suppose this did serve as some technical practice too!  So maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.  I hate that.  But I think you could have a really good time working on the big-chord thing in any of the above.  Good luck!   

Yes! It's been staring me in the face all along, all the more reason to begin a Chopin nocturne. Also unfamiliar with Faure, I'll have to check out his music. Thanks