Recordings to avoid

[Noah]

The best performances of it I have heard have been by a young german pianist called Severin Von Eckardstein. I watched him play in the final of the leeds and was blown away and then went to see him in the bwh Manchester were he was equally fantastic but had changed his interpretation (much slower in the third movement). bbc 3 had it on their radio website for a while-I don't know if its still there but its well worth a listen if it is.

I agree, it is the best version I've heard. He also played it in the finals of the Queen Elizabeth Competition in Brussels (which he won) earlier this year, it was a fantastic performance!

[eddie92099]

I went to see Arcadi Volodos at the rfh but- didn't show but we did get a fantastic pianist anyway -Yevgeny Svetlanov-good performance-more so in the outer 3 movements than in the first.

I went to see Arcadi Volodos do it too at the RFH but we got Nikolai Demidenko  . Volodos is doing it again in the new year though (under Ashkenazy I think) so that will definitely be worth seeing.

Don't you think the piano is out of tune in the Ashkenazy?!

I must say I haven't noticed. Where in particular?
Ed

[ravel]

the second and third movment of prokofievs piano concerto no.2 by ashkenazy, are actually very good,
the cadenza in the first movement is good too, but for some reason i preferred the version by alexander toradze, even though it was much slower than ashkenazys,
ashkenazy, i still think, does a pretty good job overall, but as i said, i saw volodos playing it, and have never come across anything that amazing, that was really  9r8y9r89ery  i am at loss of words, haha
, yet have to listen to cherkassky, i so want to hear that,

[eddie92099]

yet have to listen to cherkassky, i so want to hear that

Well the recording I have (1991 with Kent Nagano and the LPO) is something you will either love or hate!
Ed

[guven]

What do you think of Gould's Brahms First Concerto with Bernstein ?

I think you meant Gould's BrAhmCH's first concerto with Bernstein

[willster]

I must say I haven't noticed. Where in particular?
Ed

There is more than one key out of tune, the worst is F#1. I had noticed it, especially when I played the recording to a friend-who is a well-known gifted clarinetist-who described the piano as sounding "like an harpsichord"! It's particularly evident in the 1st movement cadenza.

You can fiddle with the tuning on a digital yamaha to produce the same sort of effect.

talking about Nikolai Demidenko-I think I'm getting confused with another performance when I saw Yevgeny Svetlanov. Did you see Demidenko around 2002? I think that was when I was supposed to have seen Volodos-If so then I went to the same concert as you-big coincidence! Thought Demidenko was pretty poor-particularly week in the 1st movement. Did you realise that kissin was there watching? At the interval he was standing with some people and I went up and shook his hand and said hi - bit of a wierdo though!!
what else was in the programme-wasnt it a sibelius symphony or something?

laters, Willster

(probably wont reply for a bit - going skiing for 3 weeks- hell yeah!!!)

[eddie92099]

Did you see Demidenko around 2002? I think that was when I was supposed to have seen Volodos-If so then I went to the same concert as you-big coincidence! Thought Demidenko was pretty poor-particularly week in the 1st movement. Did you realise that kissin was there watching? At the interval he was standing with some people and I went up and shook his hand and said hi - bit of a wierdo though!!
what else was in the programme-wasnt it a sibelius symphony or something?
 

Rachmaninov's Second Symphony in the second half when I went - but yes it was Demidenko stepping in for Volodos. I missed my chance with Kissin - I did not realise he was there (I'm surprised I didn't see him with all that hair!). Volodos is playing Prokofiev 2 again with Ashkenazy soon so maybe we will both be at that,
Ed

[willster]

give me the dates and ill see if i can make it!

Willster

p.s. yeah the 2nd symphony that was it - wonderfull programme!!

[eddie92099]

All of Claudio Arrau

What a stupid thing to say. There is no way you have listened to everything Arrau has recorded.

cziffras chopin etudes

Anyone who thinks this clearly doesn't know what they are talking about,
Ed

[bernhard]

All of Richard Clayderman.
Bernhard.

[The Tempest]

Anything released under Naxos is to be avoided at all costs.

Not including their historical recordings.

[Clare]

I got some Naxos Beethoven stuff played by Jeno Jando and he rocks! Well, except for slow movements which sound like they are played by a robot.
I haven't heard Glenn Gould play Chopin. I can't imagine how that sounds. I like Gould's Bach playing a lot but when he plays Beethoven, it seems rushed and half the time you can't even hear the piano because he hums along so loudly. I don't mind a bit of humming along, but when it's louder than the piano, it kind of defeats the purpose.

[allchopin]

Really, he hums in his recordings??  That's unbelievable, and unacceptable.

[eddie92099]

Anything released under Naxos is to be avoided at all costs.

This is an incredibly snobbish attitude. Just because a low-cost label releases less well-known artists, it does not make there artist's interpretations any less valid. I have found many Naxos recordings to be very interesting and often superior to the recordings on "bigger" labels. Furthermore, Naxos have released recordings of many pieces that are very hard to find otherwise and should be congratulated for their efforts, not berated for them.

I like Gould's Bach playing a lot but when he plays Beethoven, it seems rushed and half the time you can't even hear the piano because he hums along so loudly.

Gould hated Beethoven, so don't take his recordings too seriously! I know what you mean about the humming though...
Ed

[bernhard]

Really, he hums in his recordings??  That's unbelievable, and unacceptable.

Yes, I find humming pianists intensely irritating . You would be surprised at how many of them – besides Glenn Gould -  do (or did) it: Rudolf Serkin, Andre Watts, Grigory Sokolov Maurizio Pollini, Stephen Kovacevitch, Alfred Brendel and Richard Goode (who does not really hum, he sings really loud!) to name just a few.

Check this out:

https://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/fridayreview/story/0,12102,966166,00.html
https://glenngould.org/f_minor/msg08423.html

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[steinwaymodeld]

Kissin's Rach3
I can't believe how bad he plays in the recording.
If you have to, get Horowitz, Van Cliburn and Pletnev's recording of Rach3, not Kissin

He has some other recordings are dissapointing as well.

[bernhard]

Mendelssohn's Songs Without Words, played by Lyvia Rev.

[IgnazPaderewski]

Glenn Gould did not hate Beethoven, that is a innacurate paraphrase of what he actually said. Early and late works he admired (op 109 was a staple of his repertoire, and the last three formed his second lp release). However, he felt that the harmonic and motivic simplicity (the opening of op57, or the emperor) displayed by much of middle period beethoven resulted in an essentially boring composition, which is only relieved for the average listener by the "gutsy" bluster of much of this work.

Of course this is too a paraphrase, the original takes up several pages in the Glenn Gould reader by Tim Page.

[eddie92099]

Sorry to simplify. I should have said Gould hated the Beethoven that I have heard his recordings of (namely the piano concertos),
Ed

[allchopin]

I find humming pianists intensely irritating. You would be surprised at how many of them – Andre Watts, Richard Goode (who does not really hum, he sings really loud!)

Do they "accompany" their performances in every recording?  Because I have the complete Paganini Etudes of Watts that is absolutely perfect in every way (I'm not obsessed...  ) and a recording of Goode of Beethoven- neither have any singing of humming or whistling or air sirens going on in the background.  More specific please...

[cziffra]

who cares if they hum?  honestly, why does it matter?  

it's the same as the people who listen to any recording of rachmaninoff and complain about how poor the sound quality is.  this is completely bizarre to me: a) it was recorded earlier than 1943, b)why does it matter at all c) you're listening to rachmaninoff!  stop complaining!

[eddie92099]

who cares if they hum?  honestly, why does it matter?  

It's annoying,
Ed

[bernhard]

...and a recording of Goode of Beethoven- neither have any singing of humming or whistling or air sirens going on in the background.  More specific please...

Check out Goode’s CD of Brahms piano pieces (Richard Goode Plays Brahms – Nonesuch). There is substantial humming in them. Goode hums a lot in concert. I have a video of his Proms (I think it is 1996 or 1997) playing the Mozart concerto (no. 27 in Bb major) where he grimaces and hums like crazy. Michael Church (“Kings and queens of the keyboard” – BBC Music Magazine – Special issue: the piano) describes Goode  thus: “Prevented by stage fright from starting his solo career unitl he was almost 50, Goode became an overnight sensation with a Beethoven cycle unique in its quirky, unpredictable poetry. […] Sings loudly as he plays (though not when accompanying).”

I have not listened to his Beethoven Sonatas. Are they good? I was reluctant to buy another set, having already quite a few of them, especially because I heard mixed reviews. Some people thought it was fantastic, other people said it was rather pedestrian. I have his recent Bach Partitas, and although pleasant enough I did not think it was all that special (my favourite version of the partitas is by Rosalyn Tureck), so in the end I decided to give it a miss. Was it a big mistake? By the way, there was no humming in the partitas. They may have used recording trickery to erase it on CDs. Or maybe he just contains himself when recording.

Humming apparently gets worse with age; Brendel, Pollini and Watts were not known for their humming in their early years.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[IgnazPaderewski]

Cziffras chopin etudes! he does not approach them with anything like the respect they deserve, and (if he chose) he could do so much better.... I think they are horrible. John Ogdon's BBC recordings of Liszt la Clochette fantasy and Harmonies du soir are completely incompetent with fistfuls of wrong notes, and he gives the impression that he doesn't lift the pedal all the way through. a great deal of Kissin is very wierd and not particularly impressive. Argerich's Liszt no.1 is surprisingly not great, there are much better versions out there. that is not to say that it is dire, but its not comparable to her other DG work or other Liszt 1s. S ot of Leslie howards liszt series is very bland, and again not at all representative of his ability. Thats all for now......

[e60m5]

Shura Cherkassky's Islamey.

>_>

And as for the infamous Argerich Rachmaninoff Third (and I know Ed will disagree), I do not find it to be the most satisfying recording of the concerto, though I would not list it under "recordings to avoid". I much prefer the Gilels recording, though.

[eddie92099]

Cziffras chopin etudes! he does not approach them with anything like the respect they deserve, and (if he chose) he could do so much better.... I think they are horrible.  

You don't know what you are talking about.

Argerich's Liszt no.1 is surprisingly not great, there are much better versions out there. that is not to say that it is dire, but its not comparable to her other DG work or other Liszt 1s.

I don't think it's a great piece but I think this is the best available recording of it (that I have heard anyway!).

And as for the infamous Argerich Rachmaninoff Third (and I know Ed will disagree)

I do disagree, and with a passion!
Ed

[IgnazPaderewski]

Ed, before you start getting offensive, why don't I know what I am talking about? I think that I do. I would not recommend the Cziffra etudes to anyone, I have stated my reasons for this so why does this prompt such a response? Why are you so intolerant of others opinions if they do not correspond with your own? You write that you think Late Brahms should be got rid of, yet no-one sneers at you. It is a very immature attitude that you display.

I would also recommend other Rachaninoff 3s, the horowitz 1930 and 1941 in particular.
Berezovsky's Liszt transcendentals are vile (rushed, violent, messy, quirky, breaks strings, undecided tempi, and self-indulgent). Avoid anything by Francesco Libetta, I say this on the basis of the VAI dvd which is so completely lifeless he manages to suck all virtuosity out of the Brahms paganini.
Richter's Liszt B minor is very stange, with myriads of wrong notes and a horrible sound. Get Horowitz instead  

[thracozaag]

Ed, before you start getting offensive, why don't I know what I am talking about? I think that I do. I would not recommend the Cziffra etudes to anyone, I have stated my reasons for this so why does this prompt such a response? Why are you so intolerant of others opinions if they do not correspond with your own? You write that you think Late Brahms should be got rid of, yet no-one sneers at you. It is a very immature attitude that you display.

 To dismiss Cziffra's Etudes outright the way you did was a little over the top.

I would also recommend other Rachaninoff 3s, the horowitz 1930 and 1941 in particular.

 I prefer Horowitz's 1941 with Barbirolli, and 1944 with Rodzinksi.

[eddie92099]

Ed, before you start getting offensive, why don't I know what I am talking about? I think that I do. I would not recommend the Cziffra etudes to anyone, I have stated my reasons for this so why does this prompt such a response?

There is a lot to be said about this recording. Hence: https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=repo;action=display;num=1072672882;start=0

Richter's Liszt B minor is very stange, with myriads of wrong notes and a horrible sound.

Agreed .

Get Horowitz instead  

Get Argerich instead. Or even Cziffra for that matter!
Ed

[IgnazPaderewski]

Ed, lets agree to differ on the subject of the Cziffra. There is no way that I am going to be persuaded not to be sick when I hear them, and there is no way I can persuade you that they are perhaps slightly less than good.

Yes, Argerich's liszt sonata is wonderful, Cziffras is also wonderful (I assume you are reffereing to the emi 5 cd set) but there is something intangibly attractive about that Horowitz recording....... Arrau also plays it rather well.

[IgnazPaderewski]

Ive just thought of something - ALFRED CORTOT'S HAMMERKLAVIER SONATA! apperently this was recorded near the end of his life but not released as it was too... ermm.... cretinous. I haven't heard it obviously, but if someone as proficient as schnabel praches it up so much then I cannot imagine late cortot being particularly successful.

Also, Ogdons late recordings of Rachmaninoff. The 1st sonata is almost unrecognisable, the second is supposed to be the original but he plays all the simplified passaages as the revision, and he frequently omits whole sections of pieces (as in the 1st etude tableau).

[thracozaag]

Ive just thought of something - ALFRED CORTOT'S HAMMERKLAVIER SONATA! apperently this was recorded near the end of his life but not released as it was too... ermm.... cretinous. I haven't heard it obviously, but if someone as proficient as schnabel praches it up so much then I cannot imagine late cortot being particularly successful.

Also, Ogdons late recordings of Rachmaninoff. The 1st sonata is almost unrecognisable, the second is supposed to be the original but he plays all the simplified passaages as the revision, and he frequently omits whole sections of pieces (as in the 1st etude tableau).

 I agree, those late recordings are very sad, nothing like the magnificent RCA recordings he did of those same pieces (The 1st sonata is staggering) he did in the late 60's.  

[pianomaestro88]

I don't know if this has been said already, but Glenn Gould's Bach Inventions and Sinfonias. He trys very hard to make them sound harpsichord-ish which is insane. If you want something to sound harpsichord-ish, play it on a harpsichord. Now I will make my presumptuous statement of the century: Bach would have wanted more of a pianistic quality in all his music for harpsichord had he heard a modern piano.

Oh, and the humming and background noises, as previously mentioned, are also added to this strange interpretation. Also, at least when I play Bach, I believe absolutely in emoting which Gould doesn't partake in in the least (he's doing well if he starts mf and gets somewhere else by the middle of the phrase!); maybe, though, it should be, as Horowitz said, controlled emotion.

[Chitch]

*Horowitz's Beethoven (all of it) and chopin ballade no.1

Yes, definetely. Without question he has recorded the worse Moonlight Sonata and Tempest Sonata that I've ever heard. Disgusting, especially for Horowitz.

[meiting]

Wow. I cannot believe I haven't seen this thread until now! This is something i can go crazy on. But i shouldn't. Don't want to make enemies and all that

A couple of quick notes then. Schnabel's Hammerklavier is.. very individualistic but I actually enjoy it a LOT. The slow movement is one of the best playing of any piece I have ever heard, and at the very least you gotta give him credit for having character.

Ashkenazy's prok 2 IS horrible. But then I have very high standards for that piece.

Volodos's recording of Tchaikovsky 1st concerto with Ozawa - avoid at all costs. Even if you have to die to not listen to it. his teacher actually disowned that recordings

Also, avoid his prok 2. it's just as bad, possibly worse, than his tchaik 1.

[eddie92099]

Meiting, I have the perfect concert for you: https://www.rfh.org.uk/main/events/76019.html?section=classical&file=,
Ed

[meiting]

lol thanks ed.. Actually I don't know of a volodos recording. The prok 2  thing I said about was regarding his live performances - I heard him do it with NY phil a couple of years ago.

Bernhard, regarding your Richard Clayderman comment, i'm not sure if anybody else here got that He's a phenomenon in China though.. and my dad actually got a picture taken with him LOL. Too bad I completely agree with your assessment of his music. The amazing thing is, if you go around China, you STILL hear his music played in stores - albeit all bootlegged. Serves him right!

[trunks]

Here is a list of pianists to avoid consistently in my opinion:

1. ARTUR SCHNABEL on Beethoven - how could he have earned the place of a top Beethoven authority with all his mechanical sound?

2. VLADIMIR HOROWITZ on anything except Russian music. Sorry I have never perceived music from his fingers but sheer technical prowess. Technique was there to show his showmanship rather than to serve music. In my opinion by far overrated as a musician, if one of the top pianists.

3. ANDREI GAVRILOV. Listen to his Chopin Etudes to get a flavour of what I mean. Messy, reckless.

4. MARTHA ARGERICH and IVO POGORELICH - they go hand-in-hand in their idiosyncracies, although Martha's Ravel is some fine music.

5. VLADIMIR ASHKENAZY on all Beethoven and all Chopin. Pure bland music, very unexciting. But his Ravel Gaspard de la Nuit and his Liszt Transcendental Etudes (partial) are great stuff.

6. ALEXIS WEISSENBERG. He could play the Schumann Arabeske Op.18, among others, at twice the normal speed or more. Leaves the listener wondering what details he could bring out.

7. CLAUDIO ARRAU is not a bad pianist at all, and certainly not one to be dismissed altogether. I have many of his recordings. But his Beethoven and especially Liszt are a bit too clinical that they are as unexciting as Ashkenazy's Beethoven and Chopin. Perhaps Arrau preferred to play not to impress the audience, but simply to tell them what he has to say on the music.

8. RACHMANINOV on most Chopin. Listen to a piano-roll of the Chopin Scherzo Op.31 in Bb minor. That would bound to infuriate most, especially those who has played the piece themselves! Neither is Rachmaninov's own rendering of his Concertos as convincing as many others, if merely authentic.

9. Just wondering - could anyone bear ALFRED CORTOT on the Chopin Etudes?

10. GLEN GOULD could play Bach, and only Bach. Unchallenged, I would dare say. Otherwise avoid everything else Gould has ever played.

[comme_le_vent]

damn , where the *** do i start?

horowitz was a musical genius, and he was a great showman - his style is never showy for the sake of being show - he was simply a very colourful pianist - what you percieve as pianistic virtuosity - i percieve as musical virtuosity.

gavrilov - from what ive heard is a great pianist - great bach, and hes a really cool and funny dude.

rachmaninov is surprisingly a very colourful pianist, and a very profound and powerful one too, dont diss the rock.

cortot is absolutely magnificent in some of the etudes, and infuriatingly inaccurate in others, a mixed bag - but still worth it.

gould could play any music any way he wanted - but he chose to play in a wierd way - he was less of an interpreter - more of a recomposer - but your blanket statement is pretty stupid - the beethoven that ive heard is great - but the tempos are the main problem in some - even if they were just a joke - they are still fun to listen to. id love to hear gould play a chopin nocturne, or a liszt operatic paraphrase  

[bernhard]

cortot is absolutely magnificent in some of the etudes, and infuriatingly inaccurate in others, a mixed bag - but still worth it.

gould could play any music any way he wanted - but he chose to play in a wierd way - he was less of an interpreter - more of a recomposer - but your blanket statement is pretty stupid - the beethoven that ive heard is great - but the tempos are the main problem in some - even if they were just a joke - they are still fun to listen to. id love to hear gould play a chopin nocturne, or a liszt operatic paraphrase  

I have to agree. The original post was about recordings to avoid. I would not avoid recordings by any of these pianists, even though some are not to my personal taste.

Arrau is actually my favourite pianist. His Beethoven is awesome and his Liszt's Funerailles is unsurpassed.

Argerich's Bach is pearless (I was plesantly surprised by it, actually), and Pogorelich's Scarlatti is luminous. I agree they are idiossincratic, but this is certainly part of their appeal and definitely not a reason to avoid their recordings.

Cortot's Chopin etudes are my favourite rendition (please do not even mention Pollini and overrated Perahia).

Gould's Gibbons is probably beter than his Bach (it was his favourite composer), and his Schoenberg is excellent his Grieg Sonata is not bad at all, and his Sibelius is also very interesting. I would not say that he is my favourite pianist, but he is certainly one of the most interesting ones, and even not worshiping him as some of his fans do I would unreservedly recommend that anyone listen to him simply for the iconoclastic ideas and risks he is (was) prepared to take (I dislike his Beethoven and Mozart, but nevertheless I listen to them occasionally)

Comme le vent: You may not get Gould to play Chopin Nocturnes, but he actually recorded (Sony) Mendelssohn's Song without words Op. 19 no. 1 (close enough to a Nocturne for you to have an idea of what his approach to Chopin would be ). It is weird. He plays it as a four voice fugue (if you know the piece you will know what I mean).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[trunks]

Hey comme_le_vent,

Whoops . . . cool down and avoid the 4-character words, my dear.

This is a place to express and exchange personal opinions and show respect for opinions from  others. I won't call any opinion stupid, no matter how much I may disagree with it ^_^

Just my opinion won't tarnish the greatness of a pianist.