Gould's "singing" and assorted noises

[superstition2]

totally ruin his second recording of the Goldberg Variations, in my opinion. I see his inclusion of the noise making as a symptom of unfettered artistic ego—when the artist feels anything he/she does is automatically artistically valid. Internally (in his mind), the noise making may feel valid, but it's not valid to me as a listener. I'm there for the Bach, not his noises.

[mike_lang]

totally ruin his second recording of the Goldberg Variations, in my opinion. I see his inclusion of the noise making as a symptom of unfettered artistic ego—when the artist feels anything he/she does is automatically artistically valid. Internally (in his mind), the noise making may feel valid, but it's not valid to me as a listener. I'm there for the Bach, not his noises.

I don't think he could help it.  Read the liner notes for his recording of the Mozart piano sonatas if you get a chance.

[letters]

i really like it. shows hes picking out the melodies and tunes and he enjoys playing. but he seems like a moody git in all other respects.

[allthumbs]

I love his interpretation of Bach, but I always found his humming along to his playing to be annoying and distracting as well IMO. It's too bad they don't edit it out.

[mike_lang]

I love his interpretation of Bach, but I always found his humming along to his playing to be annoying and distracting as well IMO. It's too bad they don't edit it out.

Funny note - they tried to edit it out, but it was too loud.

[steveie986]

Before anyone criticizes Glenn Gould for ANY of his perceived eccentric mannerisms, one should at least watch the movie "32 Short Films about Glenn Gould." It is impossible to pigeonhole Gould into some category like "arrogant" or "bizarre." You should learn about the larger context of his fascinating personality and lifestyle that prompts him to do these seemingly "weird" things.

You see, to put it very simply, Glenn Gould is not a "normal" person. His eccentricities defy explanation. Whatever you say about Gould you could say the opposite and that would also be at least partly true.

In my opinion, Gould's humming is certainly unnecessary from a listener's perspective, but they are a part of who he is, and is absolutely fitting with the rest of him.

[superstition2]

I don't mind eccentric behavior one bit, as long as it doesn't impede whatever it is the performer/artist is presenting. For me, though, the noise-making causes it to be impossible for me to truly become engaged with the music. Coughing in recorded live performances bothers me a lot, too. When I went to the symphony recently, there was an old man who took something like two minutes to unwrap a cough drop. Then he fiddled with a paper bag for about 3 minutes. I was about to throttle him.

[fencingfellow]

Coughing in recorded live performances bothers me a lot, too.

Do you expect an entire concert hall to be entirely silent for the duration?
When you're talking about that kind of number of people, it is impossible.

On a different note, 20th century composers accepted such sounds as nuances
of a performance.  Of course, all that came to a peak with John Cage...4'33"...

[tompilk]

Funny note - they tried to edit it out, but it was too loud.

lol... hahaha...
seriously, i think it is ok. I wouldn't necessaily buy his recordings anyway, even though they are definitive - just for that reason... i like things a bit different... (and i knpow he singing is, but thats not the point)...
Tom

[superstition2]

Do you expect an entire concert hall to be entirely silent for the duration?
When you're talking about that kind of number of people, it is impossible.

That doesn't mean coughing adds anything of value to the music. It doesn't for me.

If you want a good example of how coughing can spoil a great performance, listen to Richter's Scriabin 6th sonata on Melodiya.

I go to concerts to hear music, not people playing with wrappers, paper bags, hearing aids, or people who can't control their respiratory system. There is a difference between pristine silence and excessive noise making. Gould's noise making is hardly on the lines of a random cough in a packed house.

[steve jones]

I find this very distracting. He does it on alot of his recordings (atleast the ones I have), and it does nothing for my appreciation of the music.

If he ever did that while performing one of my works, he get a knuckle sandwich for his trouble  Unless ofcourse it was some bizarre aleatoric work that asked for strange mumbling in the background 

SJ

[steveie986]

 
Hey, watch it kid. I know you're trying to be funny. But you're bordering on blasphemy here.
 

[lagin]

Before anyone criticizes Glenn Gould for ANY of his perceived eccentric mannerisms, one should at least watch the movie "32 Short Films about Glenn Gould." It is impossible to pigeonhole Gould into some category like "arrogant" or "bizarre." You should learn about the larger context of his fascinating personality and lifestyle that prompts him to do these seemingly "weird" things.

When I was studying for a music history exam, I think I read in Machlis and Forney's "Enjoyment of Music" that those movies were largely fictional.  People do, however, believe that he was somewhat autistic which could explain it.  I haven't watched those films, so I don't know if they state that or not.  I would like to watch them some time, though.  Were they really interesting?

[kaiwin]

I go to concerts to hear music, not people playing with wrappers, paper bags, hearing aids, or people who can't control their respiratory system. T

I have to agree with you on that one*shiver* to tell you the truth I'm creeped out by these kind of people. 

[steve jones]

Hey, watch it kid. I know you're trying to be funny. But you're bordering on blasphemy here.
 

Really?

And to think, I almost called Gould a scrawny muppet 

Seriously though, Iv yet to see the 'genius' of Gould. Maybe this is just my inexperience, but I cant see what he does thats so remarkable other than chant bollocks while he's playing and take MAJOR liberties with tempi (what is that about btw?).

But its possible that I severely missing the point, so I shall leave the heavy duty critisim for another time and place 

[steveie986]

For starters, if you haven't already done so, I recommend the movie "32 Short Films about Glenn Gould."

The reason why I consider Gould a genius is because when I listened to his recordings for the first time, I had - you see - a sort of revelation. Whether it's his Bach, Mozart, Brahms, or that one unforgettable Chopin CD, his take on familiar music is often astonishingly unorthodox and brings out harmonies and lines that I had never heard before. If you didn't feel this sudden rush of "revelation" or "euphoria" when you listened to him, then there's nothing I can do to convince you of his "genius." Music is, I suppose, subjective.

For instance, take his interpretation of Chopin's Piano Sonata no. 3. Of course, we all know about Gould's legendary disdain for Frederic Francois. For someone who is used to orthodox Chopin (Dinu Lipatti, for instance), hearing Gould's trademark semi-staccato treatment of the 4th movement was absolutely astonishing. Or take his infamous performance of the Brahms piano concerto no. 1, with Leonard Bernstein conducting. It was so outrageous and different ("tempi"-wise) that Bernstein had to make a speech before the concert giving a little "disclaimer" to the audience. Again, that performance, to me, was absolutely fresh and exciting.

Finally, you should listen to his 1982 radio interview with Tim Page in which he discusses, among other things, just exactly what the heck he means by "tempi." This interview was made just weeks before his death in 1982 and can be found on the 2-CD set "A State of Wonder" that is widely available.

In short, Glenn Gould, for me, is not merely a pianist but a completely fascinating and multi-faceted personality. One cannot criticize his mannerisms and his humming without understanding how they fit in with and are inseparable from his larger persona.

[m]

totally ruin his second recording of the Goldberg Variations, in my opinion. I see his inclusion of the noise making as a symptom of unfettered artistic ego—when the artist feels anything he/she does is automatically artistically valid. Internally (in his mind), the noise making may feel valid, but it's not valid to me as a listener. I'm there for the Bach, not his noises.

I don't get what is all the fuss about. If the noise making (such as humming or chair squicks) bothers you, then listen to other recordings of Goldberg Variations (John Rusnak, for example, where the only noise you can hear is an actual "playing"--highly recommended).
I don't think Mr. Gould will feel offended. Moreover, I highly doubt it will reduce his importance in the whole history of pianism, even a bit.

[thalbergmad]

The Jazz pianist, Willie "The Lion" Smith leaves Gould a long way behind in the noise stakes.

He was called "The Lion" for a very good reason.

Checkit.

Thalxx

[superstition2]

The "fuss" is about ruining good performances with irrelevant noise-making. I enjoy some of Gould's recordings, recordings that aren't marred by noises. If he was so autistic that he couldn't control the noise, that autism must have become more serious in his later years. None of his early recordings include noise, do they? What about the middle years?

[maxy]

I don't get what is all the fuss about. If the noise making (such as humming or chair squicks) bothers you, then listen to other recordings of Goldberg Variations (John Rusnak, for example, where the only noise you can hear is an actual "playing"--highly recommended).
I don't think Mr. Gould will feel offended. Moreover, I highly doubt it will reduce his importance in the whole history of pianism, even a bit.

Marik should be named god of pianostreet forums. 

The current topic reminds me of  a stupid canadian critic that said this about a cello performance:"the cello reflected too much light into my eyes, I was unable to enjoy the music."

I don't think any further elaboration is needed.

[superstition2]

Calling people stupid and talking about "gods of the forum" hardly qualifies as important input. Rise above the juvenile level, please. Anyone who isn't bothered by the noise-making can feel free to not be bothered by it. I don't expect everyone to share my opinion. However, just because you and some others are not bothered by it doesn't mean I shouldn't be. Realize that people are not all clones of you and don't have to agree with your opinions or share your tastes.

[alcatus]

Personally, I like the humming in his recordings. I am not really sure why, but for me, it seems as if it adds to the emotion and color of the music. I just enjoy it for some reason.

[superstition2]

This doesn't directly address this topic, but it's interesting reading:

Did Glenn Gould have a form of autism?

[steveie986]

Yep, I ran across this article a few weeks ago as well. Great read.

[stevie]

i was also diagnosed with the disorder, i took it with a pinch of ass.

[lilypiano]

My cousin had Asperger's Syndrome.

[mcgillcomposer]

Really?

And to think, I almost called Gould a scrawny muppet 

Seriously though, Iv yet to see the 'genius' of Gould. Maybe this is just my inexperience, but I cant see what he does thats so remarkable other than chant bollocks while he's playing and take MAJOR liberties with tempi (what is that about btw?).

But its possible that I severely missing the point, so I shall leave the heavy duty critisim for another time and place 

In order to detect genius you have to be able to understand it.  It's a bit of a paradox. We seem to be able to recognize the element of genius on a superficial level as lesser-evolved (if I may use that word) souls/beings/humans...whatever you prefer, but unless we are on the same plane as the genius him or herself, I don't believe that we can fully grasp the notion of it.  Essentially, I think the true understanding of the 'genius world' is self-contained; however, an appreciation of it is obtainable by all those of decent intellect.

Just my thoughts.