Self Taught Novice Needs Your Help!

[whutupbioootch]

I've just recently rediscovered my love for piano after a 10 year absence and seem to be stuck. On two pieces that I'm learning I have the same problem.

The first is Mozart's Rondo Alla Turca. In the third section, about the 33rd measure from the beginning- there's a sharp on E. This seems problematic because the next note up is F ie there is no black key between E and F. I've tried make sure over and over that I'm reading it correctly but it's definitely an E because it's a 3rd up from C.

This same problem happens for me in Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata. On the very first page in the 4th measure there is a sharp on B. But again, there is no black note between B and C.

Am I supposed to simply play the next note up? Please pardon my ignorance and help me.  ***I've included pictures with the note circled. Thanks. 

[bernhard]

Yes, this is correct, E# is played on the same key as F, and B# is played onthe same key as C. This means that although E# anf F are differnet notes as far as their names are concerned, and as far as their position on the score are concerned, they are the same note as far a s the piano keyboard is concerned.

Why this is so will take a while to explain, but it has to do with the system of equal temperament with which the piano is tuned.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[maxy]

come on... this is a joke topic...

 

must be some SDC provocation.

[Bob]

A half step is the distance between one note and the next note, black or white -- one note away, up or down. 

A sharp raises the pitch a half step.  A flat lowers it a half step. 

Sharps and flats really don't have much to do with black keys.  A black key is not necessarily always sharp or flat.  Same for white keys.

Any note can be sharp, flat, or natural.

The black keys are grouped in groups of two's and three's.

There are two "odd" places on the keyboard and the printed staff -- There is a half step between B and C and between E and F.  It would make sense in a way if every note had a black key to go to for sharp or flat, but it doesn't work out that way.

You can also make any note a double sharp or a double flat.  It happens.  In keys with more flats or sharps in the key signature.  Just because of the chords that are used and to keep the spelling consistent with the chord.

[nervous_wreck]

look at the key signature dude... it's in A major right? so there is already an F # so if you just put F it's going to be F #, one way to say it wants an F natural, is to say E #, or you could say F natural, but it's easier for your eye's to read, that way it's not going "natural, sharp, natural, sharp, natural." all over hte place.

[whutupbioootch]

come on... this is a joke topic...

 

must be some SDC provocation.

SDC? I hope this response isn't meant to be sarcastic because I really didn't know how to play this. If I had known I wouldn't have asked for help.

[quantum]

Make note of Bob's point on double sharps too.  If you are playing moonlight you will come across them.  They are denoted by an "X".  If there is a sharp already existing in the key signature, you only need to raise 1 semitone.

In key of 4 sharps:
Fx = G natural
Ax = B natural
[Natural]# F = F# (cancels previous double sharp)

[alzado]

I didn't think this was a joke topic at all.  These are intelligent questions.  If one does not have a teacher to explain, it can be most puzzling.

I can't add much, except to comment with respect to double sharps that there are double flats also.  Same concept, different accidental.

There are also many other little marks to be found in scores that can be puzzling, such as mordants.

Perhaps a little music dictionary would be helpful to you.

[clef]

and perhaps a big one would be more helpfull

[whutupbioootch]

and perhaps a big one would be more helpfull

Why would it have to be a big one? Is this meant to be jab at me? If so I should point out that "helpfull" should only have two "l"'s. Perhaps you should get a "big" dictionary.

[tw0k1ngs]

Why would it have to be a big one? Is this meant to be jab at me? If so I should point out that "helpfull" should only have two "l"'s. Perhaps you should get a "big" dictionary.

I think you ment 1

Anyways, honestly I feel you should try to play something a bit easier than Fur Elise and Moonlight Sonata if you are unfamiliar with any keys other than C+ or A-.

[whutupbioootch]

I think you ment 1

Anyways, honestly I feel you should try to play something a bit easier than Fur Elise and Moonlight Sonata if you are unfamiliar with any keys other than C+ or A-.

Sorry I think I meant to say 2. Let's spell it shall we?. H-E-L-P-F-U-L. I see two L's- correct me if I'm wrong, on second thought don't . Here's another spelling lesson. Past tense of "mean" is "meant" not "ment."


As for your suggestion, I was able to play small portion of Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata at 12 when I was taking lessons but that was over 10 years ago. As I said in my introduction I am just getting back into playing piano after a long absence and was simply asking, as another person posted, "an intelligent question." Not to diminish the difficulty of Moonlight Sonata (especially the 3rd movemoent) but I'm not a big believer in allowing others to do define what I'm capable of but I do believe in challenging one's self in order to find what one's limitations are. In regards to Fur Elise, I actually can already play the first half of Fur Elise. Thanks for the advice.

[supertonic]

To be fair, I think Whutupbioootch shows very good attitude in learning and just didn't happen to have a teacher for a quick answer. People like that should be encouraged and not discouraged!

[penguinlover]

Isn't that what this forum is for?  Asking questions, getting answers, encouragement, meeting other people who are interested in piano?  No question should be deemed stupid, too easy, or below any of us to answer if we have the answer.  I ask questions that I don't know the answer to.  I know more than some of you, and a whole lot less than some of you.  That's what it's all about!   

Keep asking questions, that's how you learn.

[whynot]

Excellent question, excellent answers.  A person could walk into almost any music department and find bright, accomplished students who don't know the answer to this question.  None of us was born with this knowledge, we had to be told or figure it out deductively (is that the word I want???), so I'm glad this was brought up here.  Good luck in your pieces!