Entering and exiting a note

[pizno]

What do you do with your hand, fingers, arm, etc...  when you enter and exit a note?  Say you are playing a piece that should be legato. Does your finger come straight down, verticially? Does it slide in?  Does it slide out?  How do play the note gently?  Do you pay attention to finger speed?  When your hand exits a note, do you 'tail it off', paying attention to the release?  I'm curious how other people consider these issues. 

Pizno

[anda]

that depends on what you have to play. i think "direct attack" is the most difficult to control, so i teach my students to use it only for fast passages (where it obviously can't be avoided). "slinding in" can be an easier way, because you get to feel & control the key before the actual attack.

(sorry for my english, i hope what i wrote makes some sense)

[pizno]

One of the reasons I brought this up is because after playing I am doing a bit of 'retraining' and I certainly was not taught that as a child.  I wonder how much of you all think about where you are playing, the pads or tips of your fingers, how you approach a note differently if it is legato or staccato, etc....  So many pianists walk around with really lousy tone and no control.  A lot of teachers still do not teach this.  Just wondering...

Piz

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

As a student I will give my advice. When performing a legato it is very important to use the wrist. Dive into the first note, carry it over to the second and let the wrists go up. Same with staccato and chords. I hope this helps.

[dinosaurtales]

This may be a better topic for the studen forum, but I am not sure that "diving into" a note is ever a good description - legato or stacatto.  For legato passages where you want a warm sound, I tend to use a sort of pulling motion with my fingers. In all cases I try to keep my fingers as close to the keys as possible - think in terms of "covering" the area of notes you are currently working on.  For stacatto I still keep my fingers close to the keys, but more olike "springing up" from the keys, not coming down on them.  What do the hot dog pianists say about this I wonder?

[pizno]

I guess that is why I wanted this on this forum, not the teaching.  I wonder how performing pianists think about these motions - or, as in some cases I'm sure, not think about them.

How about wrist staccato?  Do you 'bounce the ball' or flex the wrist?

[quantum]

I like to use as much varied techiques as possible for bringing out different tonal qualities of the piano. 

For sFz I like to think of throwing my hand at the keyboard (it produces an accent that is not harsh); staccato can be bouncy, clippy, springy, crispy; legato I could project like a singer, or be more subdued and work with color more; impressionist music I use a lot of the finger pads - caress the keys like you would your lovers skin (something that my teacher was told); for contemporary music I can use brute force with knuckles, fists and elbows. 

[pizno]

I like to use as much varied techiques as possible for bringing out different tonal qualities of the piano. 

For sFz I like to think of throwing my hand at the keyboard (it produces an accent that is not harsh); staccato can be bouncy, clippy, springy, crispy; legato I could project like a singer, or be more subdued and work with color more; impressionist music I use a lot of the finger pads - caress the keys like you would your lovers skin (something that my teacher was told); for contemporary music I can use brute force with knuckles, fists and elbows. 

Quantum I love your words, clippy, springy, crispy.  What do you do specifically with your fingers for your legato?  do you slide in, like rowing, do you keep your fingers flat?  My teacher used the lover's skin thing too.  Or how about stronging the wings of a butterfly.  How do you keep the legato melody line from punching? 

Piz

[quantum]

For something that requires good melody projection (Eg: Chopin Nocturne Op. 48/1) I do a lot of sliding in.  I find that useing this technique you can have a great deal of control over the tone and shaping of a single note. 

Stroking the wings of a butterfly would be for someting that needs delicacy. 

With regards to flat or curved fingers: flatter fingers for rounded attack, while more curved fingers for crisper attatcks. 

By "punching" I gather you mean harsh tone?  I use body weight and direct different amounts towards the keys - think of dropping weights on to the keys.  Pushing into and forcing the fingers towards the keys produces harsh tone. 

[ted]

I like to use as much varied techiques as possible for bringing out different tonal qualities of the piano. 


I adopt quantum's policy on this too, although I am probably more cavalier still. In years gone by I used to concern myself about which positions and movements were "correct", largely based on the faulty assumption that one correct way actually exists. Nowadays I don't think much about my movements at all unless a real physical problem occurs, and that doesn't happen very often. The result is that I intuitively end up using all sorts of positions and movements, each producing its own type of sound.

I don't think down to the level of entering and exiting notes I'm afraid. Perhaps if I were younger I might but I'm getting past thinking at such an atomic level. I always operate on a meta-level these days and let all that take care of itself. By and large I'm producing the sounds I want to. To start worrying about nuts and bolts at my age might impede the flow of ideas now I think.

[pizno]

I like to use as much varied techiques as possible for bringing out different tonal qualities of the piano. 


I adopt quantum's policy on this too, although I am probably more cavalier still. In years gone by I used to concern myself about which positions and movements were "correct", largely based on the faulty assumption that one correct way actually exists. Nowadays I don't think much about my movements at all unless a real physical problem occurs, and that doesn't happen very often. The result is that I intuitively end up using all sorts of positions and movements, each producing its own type of sound.

I don't think down to the level of entering and exiting notes I'm afraid. Perhaps if I were younger I might but I'm getting past thinking at such an atomic level. I always operate on a meta-level these days and let all that take care of itself. By and large I'm producing the sounds I want to. To start worrying about nuts and bolts at my age might impede the flow of ideas now I think.

[pizno]

Interesting.  I am approaching 50 but find this subject one that I am constantly thinking about, and honing.  I'm not sure if I've ever truly felt that I am in control of the tone I want to produce.  I am rarely satisfied with a legato line.  Someone mentioned Chopin Nocturne 48/1 - interesting, the very piece I am working on now is 48/2.  Trying to draw that long legato line is a challenge.  Are the fingers sliding in on each note?  How do they feel connected?  What is the relationship of the note to the whole phrase? How is the hand moving exactly?  One can over analyze, for sure, and I am perhaps doing that, but I think we need to be a little left brained before we can hand it over to the right brain. 

Piz

[ramseytheii]

For me, and perhaps this advice would be useful to someone else, it is absolute death to start thinking, what do I do with the wrist?  What do I do with the elbow?  When do I go up, and when do I go down?  Do I go in and out?  Over the years I have tried to find the most simple, and most applicable dictums for practicing.
One is that a special sound, which is also variable, can be obtained by stroking the keys like you pet a cat.  It is recommended for fast passages, for instance in the left hand of the revolutionary etude.
Another is the concept of the elbows moving either clock- or counter-clockwise.  From this knowledge one does not really need, in my opinion, to think about the "wrist" (Bernhard has written many times convincingly about how people's ideas of what the "wrist" is varies, and whether or not it actually exists).  The rest of the arm, as long as it is not been held tight, will follow the circular motion of the elbows (including the hand).
The torso has to participate in the music making, and you have to have the ability in any passage to lean forward, or go from side to side - in short, the body has to be able to follow the music.
Perhaps it is necessary to know what these things feel like before you can incorporate them into your permanent techniques.  Perhaps you already know, but don't realize it, or articulate it differently.  But here is how I think, and I hope it helps you.

Walter Ramsey