Great pieces with stupid parts

[ravel]

I disagree.  I think this movement is beautiful but none of the recordings I have listened to (i.e. from Gavrilov, Argerich, Pollini, Horowitz) has ever played it melodically.  The problem present from these pianists is that they either play it vertically, take the incorrect tempo, change the tempo (i.e. rubato), or a combination of the above.  It's beautiful but all of the aforementioned pianists just haven't learned how to play legato in this movement.

Maybe you should listen to Sokolov or Ashkenazy... yup i agree argerich doesnt play it to my liking.. even though she plays the other two movements amazingggggg...

[ravel]

- The coda of the 4th Ballade. It ruins the whole great piece. It is just a coda with random notes everywhere that make you don't know what Chopin intended from it. Just compare it to the coda of the 1st Ballade to get what i mean.

- The C Major ending of the Revolutionary Etude in C minor is so strange too. I don't get the point of ending this passionate and fiery piece in a major chord.

i would disagree... Its not random notes... I love the coda.. ofcourse the first ballad is probably his best... in my opinion.. but the fourth also has an amazing coda... again in my opinion

[ravel]

  Intresting i have never thought of it that way,i guess the major chord ending is neccessary since  it is essencial to end on a bright sounding chord, not a mellow minor chord. ( i guess )

Note that the same thing happens in Rachmaninov's prelude in c minor.. opus 23, no.7,
and i think its amazing... and really fun to play that last chord there... its so powerful !!

[ravel]

prokofiev's piano concerto no.2 is my favourite out of all of his concertos and infact one of my favourite piano concertos in the entire repertoire... but i would agree the ending sounds a bit abrupt.. or incomplete.... well the original was destroyed and he re-wrote it out of memory like 10 years later or so i think..... maybe the original had a better ending ..
althought its obviously not a stupid ending.. but as compared to the rest of the piece ... its just a tad bit dissapointing...

[musicsdarkangel]

Note that the same thing happens in Rachmaninov's prelude in c minor.. opus 23, no.7,
and i think its amazing... and really fun to play that last chord there... its so powerful !!

agreed, and op 23 no 7 is probably my favorite short work, period.

[apion]

Schumann, Piano Concerto in a Minor, 2nd mvt: the 1st and 3rd movements are awesome; the 2nd mvt sucks.  It's a throw-away movement.

Tchaikovsky, Piano Concerto no. 1, 1st mvt: The 45-second transition from the opening fanfare to the 2nd theme (1st mvt) is just horsesh*t.  Really sad.

[ravel]

agreed, and op 23 no 7 is probably my favorite short work, period.

Definitely one of the best short works.. and the feeling one gets when one is able to play it.... aaah... although i am still polishing it up... have you played this piece? there is one part where i could definitely do with some advice...

[superstition2]

prokofiev's piano concerto no.2 is my favourite out of all of his concertos and infact one of my favourite piano concertos in the entire repertoire... but i would agree the ending sounds a bit abrupt.. or incomplete.... well the original was destroyed and he re-wrote it out of memory like 10 years later or so i think..... maybe the original had a better ending ..
althought its obviously not a stupid ending.. but as compared to the rest of the piece ... its just a tad bit dissapointing...

Frankly, I think the first movement is like a complete piece, and the other three movements seem tacked on. I enjoyed it greatly as a whole when I saw it performed (CSO/Bronfman in Cincinnati), but when I listen to my recording (Ashkenazy), I'm struck by how the first movement stands alone so well and the other movements seem rather unrelated.

[ravel]

Frankly, I think the first movement is like a complete piece, and the other three movements seem tacked on. I enjoyed it greatly as a whole when I saw it performed (CSO/Bronfman in Cincinnati), but when I listen to my recording (Ashkenazy), I'm struck by how the first movement stands alone so well and the other movements seem rather unrelated.

ah so we both have seen bronfman performing prokofiev's second concerto... I saw it with the Toronto symphony though...  however i have also seen it being performed by one of my favourite pianists volodos... infact that was the first time i heard the piece... in performance by volodos...  and i dont have words to tell u how stunned i was... by the music .. by the performance...
ofcourse the last three movements seem to convey a different sort of emotion... but to me i am still think of all of the movements as one piece..  all the movements are amazing to me..

[baron_von_heimlich]

My problem with the prok 2 is that it seems extremely dispoportionated.  There are some beautiful moments, but I never feel compelled to listen to the entire thing through, which I've only done a few times.  It's a massive, and at times awkward piece (but perhaps this is due to the difficulties?).  I've heard renditions of the cadenza that made me want to vomit.  Of course, when the orchestra comes in afterwards, it really sends chills down your spine.

But I prefer his 1st and 3rd concertos.  They have a much more satisying form for me, they propell you from the beginning of the 1st movements all the way to their satisfying conclusions.  And what an ending that 1st concerto has!  One of the best out there, I think.

As for his 4th and 5th concertos, they are very odd works that haven't quite grown on me yet.  Interesting for sure... but strangely unsettling as well.

[phil13]

Frankly, I think the first movement is like a complete piece, and the other three movements seem tacked on.

This is exactly how I feel about Tchaikovsky's PC No.1.

I believe he should have published the other mvts. as separate works.

Phil

[jre58591]

This is exactly how I feel about Tchaikovsky's PC No.1.

that concerto is one of the most overrated pieces ive ever heard. i cant see why its so popular. his 2nd piano concerto, however, is a well-written masterpiece. go out and listen to it if you havent.

[apion]

[Tchaikovski's 1st] concerto is one of the most overrated pieces ive ever heard. i cant see why its so popular.

You got that right.

[musicsdarkangel]

Definitely one of the best short works.. and the feeling one gets when one is able to play it.... aaah... although i am still polishing it up... have you played this piece? there is one part where i could definitely do with some advice...

ahhh I did it and because I love it so much I did it quite well, but I was a freshman in highschool or something (like 6 years ago), but yes, which part, i'll try to help as much as I can.

[musicsdarkangel]

that concerto is one of the most overrated pieces ive ever heard. i cant see why its so popular. his 2nd piano concerto, however, is a well-written masterpiece. go out and listen to it if you havent.

agreed, I really don't like it, I just can't listen to it.


Hopefully in 4 years I'll love it for whatever reason.

[superstition2]

that concerto is one of the most overrated pieces ive ever heard. i cant see why its so popular. his 2nd piano concerto, however, is a well-written masterpiece. go out and listen to it if you havent.

Overrated to some, but logically, given that's it's so popular, it's not overrated to the majority.

I don't think the Tchaikovsky 1st is nearly as bad as many people here proclaim it to be. I do, though, have quite a few bad recordings of it, like Argerich's. It's a good mainstream piece with one of the best openings in the genre, nothing to scoff at. It's fashionable, apparently, to mock the piece because it's so popular, and because it's hardly in the technical league of a Rach 3.

As for the 2nd, I think it's the bad one. It tries badly to be greater than the 1st, and fails.

[a romantic]

Baron, you were totally right about Rachmaninoff's 2nd concerto.  I guess I just never want that theme to go away.

[kony]

heaps of Chopin really disappoints with the great 1-line melodies, but awful filling-in sections and/or coda.

Especially the Nocturnes - they suck! (the codas anyway). my most vivid memory is the one in B major. It's so nice and beautiful till it hits those chromatic notes, then back to the pleasant bit. Then Chopin plagiarises himself with that melody seen in so many works about half way through, which is repeated towards the end. And finally the most unusual ending which just screws the work up.

Also I've noticed Liszt's tendancy to not be satisfied with a nice triad for the last chord, but he often adds the 3rd or the 5th on top just to make it sound unfinished or a bit weird.

[shasta]

-the 6th piece from Rach's Moment Musicaux.  Blech.  Doesn't fit with the other 5.

-the middle section of Chopin's 25/11.  I've never been a fan.

-the Romanze (Allegretto) section from Mozart's 10th Serenade (Gran Partita).  Ruins the beauty of the Adagio.

-the "Amen" ending of Pergolesi's Stabat Mater.  Totally kills the beauty of the Quando Corpus.

-the middle section of Granados' Danzas Espanolas No.5. 

[orlandopiano]

Especially the Nocturnes - they suck! (the codas anyway). my most vivid memory is the one in B major.

Which Nocturne in B major? There are three of them.

[raskolnikov]

The slow part in Liszt's Mazeppa in the transcendental etudes, seems very fake and in bad taste to me.  Otherwise it's a solid piece.

[phil13]

Which Nocturne in B major? There are three of them.

With a description like that, kony could only be talking about Op.32 No.1, which, incidentally, is also the only Chopin Nocturne that I dislike.

Especially the Nocturnes - they suck! (the codas anyway).

Only one thing I can say to something this rash: Op.48 No.1 (especially the coda)

Phil

[orlandopiano]

With a description like that, kony could only be talking about Op.32 No.1, which, incidentally, is also the only Chopin Nocturne that I dislike.


Phil

So you're saying the coda is the worst part of 32/1?  That's actually interesting, because in James Huneker's own words:

"The best part of the Nocturne in B Major, opus 32 no.1, is the coda; it is in minor and is like the drumbeat of tragedy. The entire ending, a stormy recitative, is in stern contrast to the dreamy beginning."

I must say I agree with him.

I love playing this piece and getting to that ending. In fact, I think I'll post my playing of it soon. 

[panic]

The slow part in Liszt's Mazeppa in the transcendental etudes, seems very fake and in bad taste to me.  Otherwise it's a solid piece.

hehe. Perfectly respectable belief of course, however I believe the entirety of Mazeppa is very fake and in bad taste.

/waits for the flamage

[moi_not_toi]

middle of Tchaikovsky piano concerto.. just after the hectic piano bit in the prestissimo, where the strings come in with a cheesy-sounding melody.  I find it a little annoying, though it has grown on me come to think of it.  Sort of odd when compared with the rest of the movement

There is nothing wrong with any part of the First Mvmnt of the Chai coffee and tea concerto.

[moi_not_toi]

hehe. Perfectly respectable belief of course, however I believe the entirety of Mazeppa is very fake and in bad taste.

/waits for the flamage

Arrrgh.
mazeppa is great once you get into it.
Yes, a tad bit over-patriotic, but it's still great.

Anyone ever heard Ivan the Terrible by Prokofiev?
It seems like he and Philip Glass had a convention.

[panic]

Well I don't think the problem with Mazeppa is patriotism, I think it's the ridiculous melodrama with which Liszt surrounds an actually decent subject. The double octaves all over the place that contribute absolutely nothing to the piece other than being showy. That and the ending, which sounds like he wrote it in 15 seconds because he had to rush the piece over to the publisher's office. Did he even think about what he was writing?

[Kassaa]

It's an etude for ***'s sake.

[ravel]

ahhh I did it and because I love it so much I did it quite well, but I was a freshman in highschool or something (like 6 years ago), but yes, which part, i'll try to help as much as I can.

Hi,
ya if i counted right.. which i think i did.. its bar no.49,50,51 ....basically... from the second half of bar 49 to bar 51.... i hope you get which part... dont know if u found that hard... but for me... the problem is not only that i cant get it to speed.. but i just cant get it clear and connected enough..   any suggestions ?
thanks

[burstroman]

I wish Tschaikovsky would have ended his first piano concerto at the end of the first movement.  I believe something like that was his original plan.

[da jake]

I actually think the Tchaikovsky 1st Concerto would benefit from the omission of the pointless 2nd movement.   

[jre58591]

i wish he woulda burned that piano concerto, just like bortkiewicz burned his first. if only it woulda been vice-versa...

[da jake]

Come on. There are some fun bits in the Tchaikovsky Concerto.   

[jre58591]

Come on. There are some fun bits in the Tchaikovsky Concerto.   

yes i admit to liking a few parts of it, but the key word is "bits". i dotn think its a great composition. the 2nd concerto is much much better composed in my opinion. i dont see why the 1st is so popular and i dont think ill ever know.

[phil13]

I wish Tschaikovsky would have ended his first piano concerto at the end of the first movement.  I believe something like that was his original plan.

This is exactly what I said. The first mvt. is perfectly capable of being independent, and the other mvts. are so out of context that you have to really wonder if his heart was in it.

I actually think the Tchaikovsky 1st Concerto would benefit from the omission of the pointless 2nd movement.

I agree. But, he should have kept the 3rd mvt. and published it as a separate work.

i wish he woulda burned that piano concerto

i dont see why the 1st is so popular and i dont think ill ever know.

Harsh, dude. Harsh. Will we ever truly know why you hate it, Lawrence?

The 1st concerto, I believe, deserves every iota of respect it gets, even if it's nowhere near perfect.

Phil