The Best Pianist on this Forum

[cmg]

Oh, shut up, Bela, and let me have my damned prize.

  --CMG

[rc]

Wow, you really made Hamelin pee green?

I also vote CMG for emperor.

 

(extra points for not taking a silly thread seriously)

[jakev2.0]

"CMG's  transcription and performance of the complete Godowsky-Chopin Etudes for LEFT FOOT alone makes me pea-green with envy.  He's my ultimate virtuoso and makes me look like an incompetent booby.  I insist he be given first prize!"

Nice. 

[iumonito]

Competitions are certainly for horses, but they nevertheless are entertaining, and in a wicked way motivating.  If young pianists had a forum akin to that of young golfers or young tennis players we would have a much fairer way of recognizing talent and moving interpretation forward, wherever forward may be towards.

What about if we institute a poll.  Every month, by the last day of the month, post 4 recordings in the audition room.  One from a work prior to CPE Bach, one from CPE Bach to Beethoven, one from Schubert to Rachmaninov and one from Debussy to the present.  You are free to categorize the pieces that defy lines, such as Albeniz, Cimarrosa or Czerny.

The first Sunday of the month, vote before 11:59 pm your local time.

It'll be fun.

[rc]

Competitions are certainly for horses, but they nevertheless are entertaining, and in a wicked way motivating.  If young pianists had a forum akin to that of young golfers or young tennis players we would have a much fairer way of recognizing talent and moving interpretation forward, wherever forward may be towards.

What about if we institute a poll.  Every month, by the last day of the month, post 4 recordings in the audition room.  One from a work prior to CPE Bach, one from CPE Bach to Beethoven, one from Schubert to Rachmaninov and one from Debussy to the present.  You are free to categorize the pieces that defy lines, such as Albeniz, Cimarrosa or Czerny.

The first Sunday of the month, vote before 11:59 pm your local time.

It'll be fun.

I'm intrigued...  Do you mean like a monthly competition for the best recording?  I'd be down, that sounds like fun.  I don't think categorization is needed unless there are a lot of participants.

[henrah]

I don't think it's fair to compare recordings of different pieces, even if they are from the same genre. Some people like some pieces more than others, and this will show in the polls. However, simply posting them for commentation and something more than the usual posting would be fun.

If a competition were to be instated, a certain piece from each genre must be chosen. Even if that is done, differing pianos (acoustic/electric and also make/model) and recording situations will produce some bias, and it will be hard to bypass it. Also it might bring about some hatrid between players, but that is the worst case scenario, and doesn't seem to have disrupted the forum in this thread as this topic is taken lightly.
Henrah

[iumonito]

Well, there will be bias, sure.

We can try it both ways, although I think specific pieces may be a little limiting, for example: let's make the one for January 31 on Debussy's L'Isle Joyeuse, since that's I could do next month. Any takers?  I promise mine will be controversial, as I have taken to think this piece is much closer to Prelude a l'Apres-midi d'une Faune than to Movement from Images I.

A little "L'Isle Joyeuse Open" 

[steve_m]

8

[rc]

I don't think it's fair to compare recordings of different pieces, even if they are from the same genre. Some people like some pieces more than others, and this will show in the polls. However, simply posting them for commentation and something more than the usual posting would be fun.

If a competition were to be instated, a certain piece from each genre must be chosen. Even if that is done, differing pianos (acoustic/electric and also make/model) and recording situations will produce some bias, and it will be hard to bypass it. Also it might bring about some hatrid between players, but that is the worst case scenario, and doesn't seem to have disrupted the forum in this thread as this topic is taken lightly.
Henrah

My problem with all playing the same piece is the lack of variety for the listener.  I don't think we should worry about bias, because it's inevitable.  Besides repertoire and recording situation, there's also skill level.  I will be recording through a digital that I don't even like the sound of, and have only been playing for three years.  It's for fun/learning experience.

[iumonito]

I would bet that you know nothing about anything except playing fast.

Since you are self-taught, you couldn't possibly understand the subtleties of piano technique. I wish you could come with me to one of my lessons. I'll think I'm playing something relatively well, and I won't be able to play two bars without my teacher stopping me for some error in phrasing or dynamic or wrist motions or fingering.

Technique isn't just playing fast. There is so much stuff that's not even marked in the score that you must do to be playing correctly. Stuff you could never learn on your own. You have to understand the music.

cough cough, a few famous self taught pianists:

Godowsky
Mozart, really
Beethoven, really
Saint-Saens
Rachmaninov (seriously)
Lehvinne
Anton Rubinstein

and the ones that had teachers, do you seriously think they needed them to learn the subtleties of technique?  Liszt, Chopin, Bartok, Hoffman?

[jericho]

One the greates classical pianists, Sviatoslav Richter was largely self taught. Jazz's super virtuoso Art Tatum is self taught. Cziffra was self-taught when he was younger, and he was already a competent pianist by the time he came to the Franz Liszt Academy.

Is your technique comparable to any of them?

[musicsdarkangel]

cough cough, a few famous self taught pianists:

Godowsky
Mozart, really
Beethoven, really
Saint-Saens
Rachmaninov (seriously)
Lehvinne
Anton Rubinstein

and the ones that had teachers, do you seriously think they needed them to learn the subtleties of technique?  Liszt, Chopin, Bartok, Hoffman?

uhhh Rachmaninoff, Lhevinne and Beethoven were definitely not self-taught

Beethoven - Czerny

Rachmaninoff - Sveref (also taught LHEVINNE, Scriabin) and earlier teachers

he attended St. Petersburg and Moscow conservatoire

Saint Saens was a child virtuoso but I remember reading that he studied with someone

now, Alfred Brendel, on the other hand, is said to be self taught

[jakev2.0]

The truest autodidact is Leopold Godowsky.

[Kassaa]

The truest autodidact is Leopold Godowsky.

Wasn't Godowsky taught by Liszt, or am I a bit confused?

[henrah]

My problem with all playing the same piece is the lack of variety for the listener. I don't think we should worry about bias, because it's inevitable. Besides repertoire and recording situation, there's also skill level. I will be recording through a digital that I don't even like the sound of, and have only been playing for three years. It's for fun/learning experience.

For a fun, learning experience, yes I'm all for it

[andyd]

"Jazz's super virtuoso Art Tatum is self taught"
Well it might be better expressed as "... Tatum was mainly self taught'  He died 50 years ago and he did attend a music school in Toledo as a youth.  However, just as Nina Simone later discovered, he was never going to get the chance to be a classical concert artist.


And as we're slightly off the original question already, if this chap is real , he's probably the best player on the PianoWorld forum:
https://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/profile/3453.html


Andy

[pianowelsh]

I do not wish to offer a comment on who I percieve to be the best pianist on the forum. Needless to say it is not me! However I do wonder whether such a post is prudent in this kind of environment?! A forum is based on a collective of shared knowledge where everyones view is worth hearing and considering NOW if we set up a handfull on a pedastool and end up with a situation where only their opinions are taken seriously then we have a collapse in the true function of a forum. It is therefore my deliberate intention not to vote. I do feel for one that Bernard recieves rather too much Idol worship for his supposed wisdom..many threads are derailed by comments such as 'if only bernard were here etc etc' This is an unhealthy situation. Im not saying Bernards comments are anything short of excellent although he as we all are is human and able to give less than helpfull advice at times.  But im saying this kind of thread does encourage narrowness of thought and a tendancy towards polarisation of opinion - which is diplomatically not good.  There I said it!

[henrah]

Everything you said I agree with Pianowelsh, except for the thing about Bernhard being the same as the rest of us: this cannot be true! He is a mechanical godly machine capable of exerting 7 worthy answers a minute, and it would be worth it to consider a Bernhard plugin for this forum system

[iumonito]

uhhh Rachmaninoff, Lhevinne and Beethoven were definitely not self-taught

Beethoven - Czerny

Rachmaninoff - Sveref (also taught LHEVINNE, Scriabin) and earlier teachers

he attended St. Petersburg and Moscow conservatoire

Saint Saens was a child virtuoso but I remember reading that he studied with someone

now, Alfred Brendel, on the other hand, is said to be self taught

More cough cough,

Beethoven taught Czerny.  If you seriously think Neefe had an impact on Beethoven learning how to play the piano, or Zverev's on Rachmaninov and Lehnvine, or Saint-Saens on Godowsky, or Lizst on Albeniz, or Elsner on Chopin, or Guerrero on Gould, I have some land to sell you that will make you filthy rich, and an opportunity to help a prince from Nigeria that has his accounts tied up. 

[jakev2.0]

Wasn't Godowsky taught by Liszt, or am I a bit confused?

possibly. 

I have some land to sell you that will make you filthy rich, and an opportunity to help a prince from Nigeria that has his accounts tied up. 

You mean...that email I got was a scam? 

[iumonito]

possibly,

or randomly.  I am not hip enough to write like that.

yet.

[steve_m]

2

[buckwee]

I think we need an "ego of paul wee" thread!!!..............

[bflatminor24]

of the regular posters: me, koji, and boliver...in that order

I doubt you're anywhere near Koji. That guy has a bachelors in music from Curtis and a Doctoral from Juilliard. And if you hear any of his recordings, you'll probably agree.

Koji Atwood is amazing. His Scarlatti B minor Sonata is the only version close to Michelangeli's.

His Ondine and Scriabin Sonatas are also incredible.

As for 2nd best, I have no idea.

~Max~

[iumonito]

First of all, that's mostly untrue. But the thing with Mozart and Beethoven is that in their time, the way to have proper technique was probably widely known. Mozart probably learned them from someone, early on, and then applied them himself.

Yes, I do believe that the teachers of Liszt, Chopin, Bartok, and Hoffman taught them technique. BUt again, with Liszt and Chopin, all this stuff was used a lot more widely. Today, less and less teachers are teaching correctly.

Mostly untrue?

Mozart took piano lessons with his father, a violinist, and with his sister, a child.  Then went on to revolutionize piano techinique to heights undreamed of at the time.  Start by emphasizing that pianos were a relatively new instrument.  There is nothing in the keyboard literature prior to, say, K283, that nearly approaches what Mozart was doing at the keyboard.  Self taught.

Beethoven took piano lessons with, among others, Neefe.   Compare any Neefe piano divertimento to Beethoven's Op2#1.  It bears no comparison.  The closest influence on Beethoven's pianism was Clementi, who was not his teacher.  Self-taught.

Rachmaninov and Lehvinne studied with Zverev.  Who made them play drills a la Hanon to no end.  They do have around, though, Anton Rubinstein and a bunch of other Russians that can play the crap out the piano, and they watch them.  Rachmaninov goes on to write, at the beginning, things like Op. 3#2, which is quite within the realms of the pianistic writing of Liapunov, Balakirev and Moussorgsky.  But then he "teaches himself how to play the piano" and goes on to write the good stuff, Op. 31 and 32 and the concertos, which are - I would say - somewhat removed from what poor Zverev tortured him with.  If you seriously think Zverev taught Rachmaninov what Rachmaninov knew about playing the piano, it is a waste of my time to show you otherwise.

The others are more obvious.  Contradict if you can.  Your last sentence is so deep in the senseless, from about any point of view, that I will leave it at this:  today we have more incredible piano teachers (and pianists) than EVER before.

[steve_m]

2

[iumonito]

That is ridculous, and it tells me that your piano teacher probably is one who teaches incorrectly, and that's why you don't know any better. I was lucky enough to accidentally wind up with a teacher who showed me what real technique is like and why the majority of pianists and teachers are doing it wrong.

When will I learn not to engage.  I studied with Lev Vlassenko and Michel Block, and prior to that with Judit Jaimes, a former student of Isabelle Vengerova and with Cesar Rangel, a former student of Jorge Bolet.  I don't consider myself a virtuoso, but that has nothing to do with the excellent teachers I had an opportunity to work with.

Today, in Europe, Asia and America there are no less than thousands of teachers than in Liszt times would have in on par with Letschetitzky and Liszt himself.  150 years ago there were two, may be 5.

This phenomenon actually stems from Letschetitzky and Liszt, who were the first teachers to establish large university-like classes that attracted and helped develop the talent pool of the time.  That is now a common practice, and piano playing has vastly improved because of it.  Otherwise you wouldn't have the tens of thousands of people who can today play competently the repertoire that was reserved to a couple dozen pianists 150 years ago.

Now, who is this teacher of yours, who I suspect would be ashamed of your unwarranted self-confidence, and what is this technique method you are talking about.  I hope it is closer to Golandsky than to Hertz, otherwise I am truly a fool for replying to you again.

P.S.  I should have mentioned J.C. Bach when talking about Mozart.  I suspect there were no technique drills involved (other than perhaps some counterpoint or improvisation "exercises" if you can call them that).  J.C. Bach was material to Mozart's development, but I very much doubt he engaged in the kind of torture we are talking about.

[cmg]

This phenomenon actually stems from Letschetitzky and Liszt, who were the first teachers to establish large university-like classes that attracted and helped develop the talent pool of the time.  That is now a common practice, and piano playing has vastly improved because of it. 

Absolutely, and don't forget Xaver Scharwenka (1850-1924), a great pianist and impressive composer who established large conservatories in Germany and New York City.  A great source material for this era is Amy Fay's "Music-Study in Germany" published in 1882.  The hordes of gifted pianists from all over the world who flocked to Germany to study advanced technique at the time is rather amazing.  Truly a golden age of piano and pedagogy.

When I was a kid of four and just beginning, my first teacher's primary teacher studied with Liszt.  (She bequeathed to me several Liszt scores with the Master's handwritten notations throughout them.)  Apparently, Liszt taught hordes of people.  A very generous man by all accounts.

[iumonito]

Now those are worth talking about.  Would you have the means and inclination to pdf and post such a remarkable source here?

Totally agree re Amy Fay.  Add to the list Anton and Nicholas Rubinstein and Mr. Mason.  I think of today, though, as a golden age.

[cmg]

Now those are worth talking about.  Would you have the means and inclination to pdf and post such a remarkable source here?

Totally agree re Amy Fay.  Add to the list Anton and Nicholas Rubinstein and Mr. Mason.  I think of today, though, as a golden age.

I currently don't have the means to post the above-mentioned scores, but I am, indeed, working on that problem.  (I've only recently rejected my earlier Neo-Luddite stance on computers, so my proficiency is rather pathetic!  Much to learn.)  But thank you for your interest and I'd love to post and share them.

And, yes, I don't argue about the golden age we live in!  The list of great artists is rather staggering.

[iumonito]

Super.  If photocopying and mailing is within your comfort zone, PM me and I will send you my address.  I can take care of the rest and would be most happy to send you a check for the photocopies.

Just out of curiosity, what literature are we talking about?  This is quite exciting, who would have thought that out of this thread all this wonder would come about?

[imbetter]

guys u know mei-ting sun has an account. The best pianists on this forum are "meiting" and darkangelpiano

[rob47]

perhaps it is Nortti, mkaykov, and steven turnbull

or the banned legend Mich Fang

or the relatively unknown PS user "moe"

"If I were given the opportunity to present a gift to the next generation, it would be the ability for each individual to learn to laugh at himself." - Charles Schulz

[Mozartian]

wow the ressurection of this thread, and wow the HEAVY editing it has undergone... lolllll.

[jre58591]

ozzy and koji. nuff said.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Add marik and electrafingers to those two. I've heard awesome stuff from all of those four.

[Mozartian]

Kassaa's recent Schumann recording puts him in as one of the most talented kids here I think, for sure.

[jakev2.0]

perhaps it is Nortti, mkaykov, and steven turnbull

or the banned legend Mich Fang

or the relatively unknown PS user "moe"

"If I were given the opportunity to present a gift to the next generation, it would be the ability for each individual to learn to laugh at himself." - Charles Schulz

It should be noted that, although these suggestions are clearly a bit '', this particular poster plays a really mean Chopin 3rd Scherzo. 

[jre58591]

mkaykov, and steven turnbull

haha, aka trumofo and comme.

[sevencircles]

Jonathan Powell is here still, right?

There you have my vote

[jre58591]

oh thats right. surely we cannot forget him.

[thalbergmad]

How about frexia?

[elevateme_returns]

Wow. What better way to defend against allegations of puerile incoherence than with a post comprised exclusively of puerile and incoherent ad hominem attacks? 

exACTLY.

[jakev2.0]

exACTLY.

Hey did u know that they captured Saddam Hussein?

[elevateme_returns]

hahahaha you spaz!!! you even used algebra in your post!!!! what is wrong with you???
i feel sorry for you man. i really do. you see this is what happens to prodigies, their social life is left in tatters because they are worked so hard until all they are left with is their skill & intelligence. those things dont make you as happy as you can be. to be honest, im quite ashamed to be on a website called "piano street". must be where the cool kids hang out. Now, if you'll excuse me, i have to go to maths club. Have a nice day.

Oh, and by the way, before you start criticising the "coherency and general level of logical competence" I "exhibit" in my posts, check your own. You can't end a sentence with a preposition - you wrote "I have some contract law reading to get back to." So shut your face you pompous bellend. You study at Oxford, you shouldnt be making GCSE standard mistakes.

gota say this was a quality post by me

[concerto_love]

woah, a thread from 2 years ago?!