Finger Exercises

[victor_ching]

I am looking for a good fingering exercise to practise my technique on. I heard that Hanon is not so good, but it is what I was working on. Can anyone suggest a alternative to Hanon? Maybe Czerny?

THanks

[ingagroznaya]

Maybe.

[stevehopwood]

I always recommend Hanon. There are a couple you are best off leaving out (espeically no 1 which causes tension in the left hand) but it is hard to do better than Hanon. Czerny wrote studies, rather than finger exercises - not quite the same thing.

Another excellent set of intermediate exercises are the Beringer - these will do most people a power of good.

For more advanced exercises, try the Brahms and\or Dochnanyi. I do not know the latter, but people tell me they are excellent.

Steve 

[Mozartian]

Don't do Dohnanyi without a really good teacher- they can be treacherous.

[thalbergmad]

I thought eveyone here knew that these exercises are pointless and can lead to permanent hand damage.

All you need to do is play Scarlatti and read Chang.

Please use the search function to see 3,000 page long posts.

Thal

[daniel patschan]

I thought eveyone here knew that these exercises are pointless and can lead to permanent hand damage.

All you need to do is play Scarlatti and read Chang.

Please use the search function to see 3,000 page long posts.

Thal

And don´t forget to play Scarlatti just for 15 minutes per day. Then, after 1-2 years you´ll be able to run through Liszt´s "Fantasie sur la clochette de Paganini" with ease (and through much harder stuff as well of course) ! 

[mike_lang]

Brahms' 51 are very helpful for finger independence/strength.  Also, Cortot's "hold-and-poke" method that is found as prep for many of the Chopin etudes is quite useful as well.

[thalbergmad]

And don´t forget to play Scarlatti just for 15 minutes per day.

15 minutes is too much. I would recommend no more than 30 seconds daily to avoid fatigue.

In addition, always play in the presence of a qualified teacher and a neurosurgeon in case of complete breakdown.

Yes, don't tell me. Stick to the "anything but piano thread" Thal.

[stevehopwood]

I thought eveyone here knew that these exercises are pointless and can lead to permanent hand damage.

Any playing can lead to permanent had damage if it is done incorrectly.

As to pointless, not necessarily. The great thing about the finger exercises many people use is the way in which they concentrate for a whole exercise, on one particular finger\group of finger action. Considerable strengthening is gained this way.

Mind you, I am one who vehemently dismisses scale playing as a complete waste of time, which is probably also slightly overstating the case  , so I can see where you are coming from 

Thing is, the poster asked about finger exercises, so the replies are aimed at this. If the poster had asked, "How do I develop a good finger technique?", my answer would have been, "Play the music of Scarlatti, Bach, Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven."

Try it, victor_ching; you will have a lot more fun.

Steve 

[bearzinthehood]

Brahms' 51 are very helpful for finger independence/strength.  Also, Cortot's "hold-and-poke" method that is found as prep for many of the Chopin etudes is quite useful as well.

Brahms' 51 is pretty hardcore, depending on your level you might need some easier exercises before tackling them.

[mike_lang]

Brahms' 51 is pretty hardcore, depending on your level you might need some easier exercises before tackling them.

Exercises for exercises?  :-)

(I'll argue against Cortot's method being an equivalent case.)

[kriskicksass]

Brahms' 51 is pretty hardcore, depending on your level you might need some easier exercises before tackling them.

I'm gonna say exactly what my teacher said to me about the Brahms Exercises: They're too difficult to be reasonable. You can't learn them quickly enough to be practical, and their difficulty boarders on sadistic. And what do you have in the end of all that pain? You have the technique to play Brahms, which is applicable to exactly 0 other composers. Exercises should help you play repertoire, so you if you choose to learn exercises, they should fall into the center of the repertoire and you can build outward from them.

I recommend Hanon to start, then Dohnanyi. Of course, you need a teacher to work on these with, just like anything else. A good teacher will be able to tell you which exercises to skip, provided you've been with him long enough for him to know your technique.
My teacher recommends Liszt's exercises for advanced students, but I introduced him to Dohnanyi, so he's letting me use them instead. I just thought I'd throw those out there too, because those are about as central to the repertoire as you can get, and very extensive too.

[bach_ko]

12 Etudes by morit muszkovsky, polish composer...
it would be a better choice i think.
well i dunno wat level are u in, this piece is not difficult, the standard between hanon and czerny...
u can play it slowly 1st then slightly pickup the speed since everything is ok...
i have played the etude no2 in G minor b4, and i found out that i improve a lot in technique...
so... go and have a try on it!!
good luck!

[mike_lang]

I'm gonna say exactly what my teacher said to me about the Brahms Exercises: They're too difficult to be reasonable. You can't learn them quickly enough to be practical, and their difficulty boarders on sadistic. And what do you have in the end of all that pain? You have the technique to play Brahms, which is applicable to exactly 0 other composers. Exercises should help you play repertoire, so you if you choose to learn exercises, they should fall into the center of the repertoire and you can build outward from them.

I recommend Hanon to start, then Dohnanyi. Of course, you need a teacher to work on these with, just like anything else. A good teacher will be able to tell you which exercises to skip, provided you've been with him long enough for him to know your technique.
My teacher recommends Liszt's exercises for advanced students, but I introduced him to Dohnanyi, so he's letting me use them instead. I just thought I'd throw those out there too, because those are about as central to the repertoire as you can get, and very extensive too.

What do you find difficult in the Brahms?  Or at least unreasonably difficult - these are meant to help you, so of course they are going to be a challenge.  You know, I was playing the first one (1a) today and realized that it can all be played with four one-measure fingerings (one for each hand, plus the inversion of each).

Michael

[kriskicksass]

Of course the 1s are going to be reasonable, they're five-finger/polyrhythm exercises. The point I was making was that the Brahms Exercises teach you how to play Brahms, but really nothing else. It's a waste of your time (unless you really love Brahms) to use them as the basis of your technical exercise. Something more central to the repertoire (Hanon, Dohnanyi, Liszt, etc) will help you in much more repertoire than the Brahms with, including Brahms. Basically, I'm saying you need to use something universal so that you can build off it to special cases, such as Brahms' piano writing.

[mike_lang]

I must say, Kris, that while the Brahms 51 address many issues found in Brahms, these issues are not idiomatic solely to Brahms.  It is true that polyrhythms, for example, are frequently found in Brahms, but these exercises function secondly as studies in control of the thumb.

Some problems we deal with in these exercises include diatonic thirds, varied articulations simultaneously within the hand, thumb under, shifts, exploration of the contour of the keys, close proximity chromatic motion, rotation, wide reaches (cf. La Campanella intro), independence of fingers, trills, strength of pinky finger, and unison scales.  These are all problems that we encounter frequently in the piano literature (some more than others).  Certainly, the finger independence gleaned from these exercises is useful in more than a few Brahms pieces.  But indeed, it is a requisite of Bach, late Beethoven (cf. the dreaded Hammerklavier fugue), and of course any other polyphonic repertoire that we play. 

One can find in these exercises a few solid foundation in pivotation, rotation, and shifting, which are the three essential movements to piano playing.  While Brahms may be famous for certain difficulties, they are far from being his alone.  In fact, the graduate of the Brahms 51 has a versatile technique ready to face most of the world of classical music.  And of course, as he has conquered the awkward (in order to play Beethoven, Bach, Brahms), it is true that he will additionally be at ease with composers who fit better under the fingers (Liszt, Chopin, Rachmaninov).