What's the ULTIMATE 75 min program?

[shatteringpulse]

What does everyone think is the ultimate 75 minute program that's possible, combining virtuosoity, musicianship, emotion, and variety? Suggestions?!

Of course, it's all a matter of opinion!  

Maybe...

Islamey (So what if it's an orgy of showmanship?)
Chopin: F Minor Ballade op. 52 (Ah, the human soul!)
Liszt: Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 (Continue, circus act!)
Chopin: Polonaise-Fantasie, op. 61 (Savage emotion!)
Rachmaninoff: Prelude B Minor (The exile...)
Ravel: Scarbo (Fright!)
Prokofiev: Toccata (Ah! Stop the train! It's going to run me over!)
---INTERMISSION--
Beethoven: Sonata No. 32, Op. 111 (The profound!)

(Maybe this one is a little over 75...)

[guven]

Imo, playing only Scarbo is like playing only one etude from Schumann Symphonic Etudes ..

[BoliverAllmon]

This one is easy. the best recital is when I perform and don't make a mistake.

boliver

[Hmoll]

No offense, but it looks like you didn't put much thought into this program. It's front loaded with over played war-horses, and the second half is too short.

You may go back to the drawing board.

[eddie92099]

Chopin: Fantasy in F minor
Liszt: Sonata in B minor
---
Ravel: Gaspard de la nuit
Prokofiev: Sonata no.7

Ed

[liszmaninopin]

1. Gaspard de la nuit (or, possibly Scriabin's "White Mass")
2. Beethoven Hammerklavier Sonata (or another late sonata you might prefer)
3. Chopin Fantaisie in F minor (one of the Ballades could be placed here also)
4. Rachmaninoff Sonata 1 in D minor (#2 might have a somewhat more exciting ending, but I think that this one shows a greater potential for soft, slow music in the second music)

I know that these aren't particularly original, but I feel they would carry quite an impact both emotionally and with virtuosity.  One major drawback that comes to mind is the lack of earlier music, but then, I've never liked much before Beethoven, so I'm not the best one to ask for recommendations as to Mozart, Haydn, Bach, etc...

[shatteringpulse]

It definitely is front-loaded! But you all are right, there are greater pieces than the warhorses that connote "ultimate"...

After some thought and some suggestions...perhaps...

Chopin: F Minor Fantasy (Hmmm...)
Rachmaninoff Sonata No. 2 (1913) (Grand!)
---
Prokofiev: Sonata No. 7 (The irony and piston!)
Beethoven: Sonata No. 32 (Sublime...)

Althought Rachmaninoff first sonata is quite grand...hmmm...I've never been one for Ravel...this is a very subjective question...

[eddie92099]

Isn't it funny how the same pieces keep coming up! I was very tempted to put Rachmaninov's Second Sonata in my programme as well,
Ed

[allchopin]

I would have to go with the 4th Ballade in place of Fantasy in F minor as well- its shorter and better (larger awe/second ratio).

Personally I find Isalamey pretty obnoxios, but I guess it is a way to open the program.
A good ending piece would be Chopin's Impromptu #2.

[Dave_2004_G]

I don't have time to think of a recital programme off hand, but one thing I would say is that many suggestions seem to be geared towards only including pieces which are towards the extreme end of the technical spectrum - in reality audiences like viruosic performances, but I think it would be abit boring for a whole recital

Just a thought

Dave

[Noah]

Bach - Toccata BWV 911
Beethoven - Sonata n.32 in C minor, Op.111

Prokofiev - Sonata n.6 in A, Op.82 or n.7
Liszt - Sonata in B minor

[eddie92099]

I would have to go with the 4th Ballade in place of Fantasy in F minor as well- its shorter and better

It is not better,
Ed

[shatteringpulse]

I think it's very difficult to straddle the line between technical wizardry and actual musicianship. I think the whole point of listening or playing Islamey is to indeed be just that, obnoxious! I think the best program, based on these responses, might include some sort of demonstrable thesis--perhaps the transformation from darkness to light, from earthly to sublime, or romance to passion. But seeing as darkness to light is one of the most epic themes, maybe it will command the ultimate program-- lol...

Maybe...

Chopin: Polonaise in E-Flat Minor, Op. 26, No. 2
Liszt: Funerailles
Rachmaninoff: B Minor Prelude, Op. 32, No. 10
Rachmaninoff: C Minor Etude-Tableau, Op. 39, No.7
Bartok: Sonata (1926)
Scriabin: Sonata No. 9, "Black Mass"
---
Beethoven: Sonata No. 31 in A-Flat, Op. 110
Chopin: Polonase in A-Flat, op. 53
Rachmaninoff: Prelude in D-Flat, Op. 32, No. 13
Debussy: The Sunken Cathedral
Scriabin: Sonata No. 7, "White Mass"

But then again, the other two themes go well...but the dark section might get monotonous! This program seems a little more balanced, in terms of showmanship. Hmmm...

[Beethoven87]

Beethoven Sonata Op. 53
Liszt "Dante" Sonata
---------------------------
Chopin Sonata No. 2
Prokofiev Tocatta Op. 11
Scriabin Sonata No. 7

I don't really care if it's unorthodox... I'd love to hear this recital anyway.  I rarely hear the "Dante" Sonata mentioned on this board...  Is it because the B Minor is so much better, or do people simply not like this peice?

[Noah]

Because the B minor is so much better.

[thracozaag]

Crazy recital I played once (ONLY ONCE):

Copland Sonata
Liszt Le Jeax 'deaux  a la Villa d'este
Scriabin 4th Sonata
Liszt/Horowitz/Attwood Vallee D'Obermann

 Intermission

Group of Chopin Mazurkas and Scriabin preludes
Scriabin 7th Sonata
Scriabin 10th Sonata
Liszt/Horowitz/Attwood Scherzo and March

 NOT recommended, I don't know what I was thinking.

[cziffra]

i personally see the programming of the recital at least AS important as the performance of the pieces.  although i am too young to have ever performed a recital (and you can dismiss be accordingly) i feel that the STRONGEST influence on the audience's reception of any piece of music is the piece that was played before it.  

for example, how many hungarian rhapsodies can you hear in a row, before you wish liszt never heard of a cadenza?  on the other hand, play an entire recital devoid of cadenzas and then play the 9th hungarian rhapsody, and you have a very effective final piece.

these are just my thoughts.

[eddie92099]

for example, how many hungarian rhapsodies can you hear in a row, before you wish liszt never heard of a cadenza?

I listened to all 15 in one sitting the other day. Never again,
Ed

[thracozaag]

I listened to all 15 in one sitting the other day. Never again,
Ed

good lord

[rvPianist]

The mere fact (hardly mere actually!) that any of you can PLAY these pieces...wow...it is truly astounding. The virtuousity...staggering. I guess I'm easy game for Shock-And-Awe, so in my unqualified opinion, I would choose music that displayed my technical prowess. I suppose it depends on audience - if I was aiming to please, and draw people of little exposure to classical music to the possibilities of the piano, then warhorses it is. On the other hand...

No one mentions Schumann - Kreisleriana. Why? I think it's a good blend of showmanship and musicality - Schumann never wrote for the sake of virtuousity, apparently, so your hands are indeed flying all over the keys, and yet the emotion and depth drawn from the set would be satisfying.

Islamey to END!!!!! Leave an impression, if nothing else! I say this because, Pletnev in his first ever recital at Carnegie Hall (a disc of the performance is available) performed Islamey as a final encore (ENCORE, PEOPLE), and it brought down the house. I've heard several versions of Islamey - Pletnev outranks every other by miles...his virtuousity is blistering, yet so majestically presented...the musicality works BECAUSE of his technical ability...

Off topic by now, but I can't help it!

[Hmoll]

 No one mentions Schumann - Kreisleriana. Why? I think it's a good blend of showmanship and musicality - Schumann never wrote for the sake of virtuousity, apparently, so your hands are indeed flying all over the keys, and yet the emotion and depth drawn from the set would be satisfying.

Islamey to END!!!!!  

I don't understand whay so many people play Islamey. It's a piece of garbage with no redeeming qualities.

Playing a masterpiece like Kreisleriana on the same program  with Islamey would only point out the lack of quality, and emptiness of  the latter piece.

[steinwaymodeld]

The mere fact (hardly mere actually!) that any of you can PLAY these pieces...wow...it is truly astounding. The virtuousity...staggering. I guess I'm easy game for Shock-And-Awe, so in my unqualified opinion, I would choose music that displayed my technical prowess. I suppose it depends on audience - if I was aiming to please, and draw people of little exposure to classical music to the possibilities of the piano, then warhorses it is. On the other hand...

No one mentions Schumann - Kreisleriana. Why? I think it's a good blend of showmanship and musicality - Schumann never wrote for the sake of virtuousity, apparently, so your hands are indeed flying all over the keys, and yet the emotion and depth drawn from the set would be satisfying.

Islamey to END!!!!! Leave an impression, if nothing else! I say this because, Pletnev in his first ever recital at Carnegie Hall (a disc of the performance is available) performed Islamey as a final encore (ENCORE, PEOPLE), and it brought down the house. I've heard several versions of Islamey - Pletnev outranks every other by miles...his virtuousity is blistering, yet so majestically presented...the musicality works BECAUSE of his technical ability...

Off topic by now, but I can't help it!

I second that, it's the 2000 version right? He played it once in encore in 1989 too, i am trying to find that recording, it's told that the 1989 version is even more astounishing.

[steinwaymodeld]

I don't understand whay so many people play Islamey. It's a piece of garbage with no redeeming qualities.

Playing a masterpiece like Kreisleriana on the same program  with Islamey would only point out the lack of quality, and emptiness of  the latter piece.

So many people critized/hate virtuosic piece for no reason.
Cause they always think sentimenal,emotion doesn't go along with difficult techniques.(It's a very common misconception, like: Oh, he played all the Liszt Transcedental Etudes, he must be another Liszt-manic-only-power-no-brain-virtuoso.)

Don't critize virtuosity for what they are, but critize them for what they don't contain. In my opinion, there are a lot of virtuosic pieces with so much emotion, Liszt Sonata in Bb, Rachmaninoff concerti, Provokiev Sonata, Alkan Concerto, sonata, symphony for piano solo.

Islamey is a piece about excitment, about the mystery of the oriental. And in my opinion, the composer did a good job. It starts out so mysterious and ends with excitment. It's not those 'slow sentimental piece' like Chopin Nocturnes, but it certainly contain a lot of interesting elements and emotion, at least the audience and i can feel it. It's more than mere hollowness.
listening to this piece is almost like watching a advanterous film in Middle East, it brings the audience to a new level of music and appreciation of art. And that's all that matters for a piece.

A piece doesn't need to be slow to be sentimental
Neither does it need to be fast to be 'hollow'.

[steinwaymodeld]

Em...
Ultimate 75 mins...

Let me think.

(I think the first programme is kinda dis-organized)

Start with...

Chopin etudes:
op.10 no.5(Black Keys), start out with a funny mood
op.10 no.1, elegance

Rachmaninoff
Etude Tableux op.33 No.7
Prelude in G

Scriabin
Etude op.8 No.12 (Super-mystery)
Vers la Flamme

Liszt
Sonnette 104
Valse-Caprice No.6 (elegance and beautiful)
Transcription of Beethoven 5th Symphony (Intense heat with depth)

Intermission
the second half, let's try something different

Mozart
Sonata K.333

Beethoven
Rage over a lost Penny (back to something funny)

Ravel
Jeux D'eau  (Mini version of Gaspard, Ondine)

Encore(optional)

Charles Alkan
Op.39 No.10 (Concerto for Piano solo)

it should be around 80 mins when it hit The Jeux D'eau. so the encore is another optional extra 10 mins.

[Hmoll]

Don't critize virtuosity for what they are, but critize them for what they don't contain.  

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, but meanwhile, I will be as critical of anything I want for any reason I want.

There is absolutely nothing compelling or interesting about Islamey. The only reason that too many people play this piece is because for a short time it was considered the most difficult piece in the repertoire.  Aside from that, the composer had little to say, and is all but assigned to the dust bin of music history.

There is plenty of virtuosic music that's musically interesting to listen to, and study.

Show me someone who can play a convincing interpretation of Vingt Regards, the Schubert B flat sonata, Schumann Fantasy - then I'll be impressed.

[eddie92099]

the composer had little to say, and is all but assigned to the dust bin of music history.

There is plenty of virtuosic music that's musically interesting to listen to, and study.

Such as Balakirev's Second Piano sonata  . By the way, SteinwayModelD, your programme is abhorrent,
Ed

[Hmoll]

Such as Balakirev's Second Piano sonata  .

The only difference being that, thankfully, hardly anyone plays that piece. Another big yawn.

[thracozaag]

Scriabin
Etude op.8 No.12 (Super-mystery)

 How the hell is this piece "super-mystery"?  Even with the alternate pp ending.....

[steinwaymodeld]

Such as Balakirev's Second Piano sonata  . By the way, SteinwayModelD, your programme is abhorrent,
Ed

Excuse me?

[steinwaymodeld]

Scriabin
Etude op.8 No.12 (Super-mystery)

 How the hell is this piece "super-mystery"?  Even with the alternate pp ending.....

I feel this piece have inscribed so many emotion and so full of energy. But it's not clearly any kind of well-defined emotion. Sometimes it's exciting, sometimes it's sorrow and grief, sometimes it gave me a feeling of feeling glad and pumped up.
So that's why i said it's 'mysterious'.
So did Horowitz

[cziffra]

i have a dream that i'll eventually get to open a concert with the second piece in satie's "dissected embryo's" collection.  it ends with about 7 chords in a row, as a joke, so just as people start clapping you tease them by continuing on.  

it'd set up an atmosphere of not too serious, so that the audience can have some fun.  (i don't know what you'd follow that with though.)

[steinwaymodeld]

i have a dream that i'll eventually get to open a concert with the second piece in satie's "dissected embryo's" collection.  it ends with about 7 chords in a row, as a joke, so just as people start clapping you tease them by continuing on.  

it'd set up an atmosphere of not too serious, so that the audience can have some fun.  (i don't know what you'd follow that with though.)

have you heard about the 4'33" by John Cage?
I think when he performed the piece, it had the similar effect.

[guven]

I feel this piece have inscribed so many emotion and so full of energy. But it's not clearly any kind of well-defined emotion. Sometimes it's exciting, sometimes it's sorrow and grief, sometimes it gave me a feeling of feeling glad and pumped up.
So that's why i said it's 'mysterious'.
So did Horowitz

Rebellion maybe ?

[steinwaymodeld]

Rebellion maybe ?

Rebellion, some, but that's not what i got from the music.

[IgnazPaderewski]

Mine (intend to play it at some stage....)

Liszt - Sonata in B minor, Mazeppa

Rachmaninoff - Sonata no.1 op.28, Op.3 no.1,2,4, Op.10 no.1,2,5,7

Encore - Prelude in F major (early version of Op.2 no.1 for cello and piano)

[eddie92099]

I would lose Mazeppa and stick a lighter Liszt work in front of the sonata,
Ed

[steveolongfingers]

I plan to play these (however cheesey) at my senior recital for school

Prelude and Fuge in G minor, BMV 885- Bach

Sonata No.3 in b, Op.58- Chopin

break....

Sonata No.14 Op 27 (Moonlight)- Beethoven

Impromtu in F minor op 142- Schubert

Give me a break, i play the Presto in moonlight really fast, i dont know why people make fun of it, its cool

[steinwaymodeld]

Give me a break, i play the Presto in moonlight really fast, i dont know why people make fun of it, its cool

What so funny about the moonlight 3rd?

[steveolongfingers]

Its not the 3rd thats funny, my friends that play piano make fun of me because i play the first two movements, cause every body at least knows the first one

[Rach3]

I never figured this out, is it the first or second movement of Moonlight which is more famous?

Steveolongfingers - which Schubert f minor impromptu op. 142? There are two. The fourth one has the death-defying coda. I still can't play it.

But then the first one has the lyrical middle section... Why not play both?

Most of the programs on this threat are WAY over 75 minutes. People, if you play three big honking sonatas in a row, innocents are going to DIE.

I think Islamey is musical, I sometimes hum excerpts from it, which is my personal criterion for musicality.

SteinwayModelD, your idea is very original and I would actually be interested in hearing it, even if it does have FIFTEEN seperate compositions.

My observations on what seems to be the most frequently suggested:

Beethoven: Late sonata! Hammerklavier or op. 111
Chopin: 4th Ballad (or f-minor fantasy)
Prokofiev 6 or 7, or late Scriabin
Rach 2

[Rach3]

My own ideas:

Idea 1:

Bach, B-flat partita
Beethoven, Das Lebewohl sonata (op. 81a)
~INTERMISSION~
Chopin, etudes 10/8, 25/6, 25/8
Schumann, Humoreske op. 20
~
encore: Rondo alla Turca

Idea 2:

Mozart, F-major sonata K. 332
Brahms, third sonata
~INTERMISSION~
Chopin: Impromptus #2,3; Scherzo #3; Ballades #3,4.

encore: Horowiz/Bizet Carmen variations

[Rach3]

Another idea! Add orchestra!

(New York Phil, Mickelthwate)
(me, soloist)

Mozart, concerto #17 (G major)
Beethoven, G major concerto
~INTERMISSION~
Rachmaninoff, Third Concerto
-Allegro ma non tanto
-Intermezzo (Adagio)
-Finale

Encores!
orchestra: Rachmaninoff symphonic dances
Me: Brahms paganini variations
And maybe throw in... Complete Chopin Nocturnes, Ballades, Scherzi, and Intermezzi, also Rondi and Concerti, of course Etudes too
Beethoven: Sonatas 1-32, Diabelli var.
Mozart: Everything
Bach: Everything
Telemann Scarlatti and Albinoni: various on harpsichord and piano
Bach: everything
Sorabji: everything, transcribed for piano and string octect (to make it easier)
Schumann op. 20
Brahms op. 5
And finish with Rachmaninoff Paganini rhapsody!

[Rach3]

That was fun! Just so you know, I can't practice now anyway, its too late. So I'm NOT wasting time.

(oh and in the complete Bach compositions I'm including the organ works too)

[eddie92099]

I never figured this out, is it the first or second movement of Moonlight which is more famous?

The first,
Ed

[Rach3]

I had thought it was the second. Forlorn, weary, molto cantabile, one of Beethoven's best.

[eddie92099]

I really think you are confusing the first two movements,
Ed

[Rach3]

This is very sorry for a 100th post but:

No, I'm not. Considering this is early Beethoven, I can hardly imagine confusing "Allegro molto con brio" with "Adagio cantabile".

The Ab-major adagio is what I am refering to. I know violinists and worse who can identify the theme. The first movement is brilliant and innovative, but not memorable like the adagio. I described it as "forlorn", perhaps that confused you?

[eddie92099]

The first movement is still the most famous of the three,
Ed

[Rach3]

Maybe you're right. I still like the second better.

[schnabels_grandson]

No, I'm not. Considering this is early Beethoven, I can hardly imagine confusing "Allegro molto con brio" with "Adagio cantabile".

The Ab-major adagio is what I am refering to. I know violinists and worse who can identify the theme. The first movement is brilliant and innovative, but not memorable like the adagio. I described it as "forlorn", perhaps that confused you?

Are we all talking about the same thing?  The sonata refered to as "moonlight" is Op.27 no. 2.  This sonata has no A flat signiture anywhere in the entire piece.  
I. Adagio sostenuto- C sharp minor
II. Allegretto- D flat major
III. Presto agitato- C sharp minor