how to teach Chopin etude

[helga]

Has anybody taught Chopin etude op.25, N 12 to a young teebager? Any suggestions for preparatory excercises? Any pointers on what to look for and what to avoid doing from the very beginning?  The child has good facility, can produce beautiful tone and is really motivated to learn this piece. But to me it looks like it will be a big challenge. What should I be looking for to identify if the child is ready for it or not (I am not a teacher, and I don't know if the teacher will agree to teach the piece, but I would like to gain an insight so we can start some preparatory exercises in the summer).

[lostinidlewonder]

Age has little to do with it, sometimes people are ready to learn it early on sometimes much later on you cannot generalise. Since this is an etude one must indentify techinques focused upon and determine how to produce it without physical tension. Fingering is paramount, but also how they carry their hands to move to a new group of notes has to be carefully examined, if a student is hasn't the grasps of piano playing as a whole (from experience with other pieces) then they will be faced with a mount everest in Chopin etudes and might even waste a lot of time trying to solve what might be easily solved with easier pieces.

What pieces to choose to lead up to Chopin etudes is up to the individual, there is no one path. But whatever path you take each will give us more tools to play any pattern of notes without excessive physical exsertion. It would be a good idea to mark out where your hands start to strain and feel uncomfortable (even after a little repetition), if you end up with a page full of marks then the piece is too hard and you should try something else.

[zheer]

Has anybody taught Chopin etude op.25, N 12 to a young teebager? Any suggestions for preparatory excercises?

   Sadly not, but i tought myself haw to play so i might be able to help.
  for a start its not a good place to start with this Etude, but i guess He/she can start by playing

    ( 1 ) hands separatly ( slowly )

     (2)   hands together   ( slowly )

   ( 3 )   gradually work on attining tempo and expression.


              To be honest, with the correct instruction's from a good teacher this Etude will be very easy to play depending on the individual. Good luck.

[henrah]

Learn how to jump from one chord to the next fast and without tension. And also be sure that he plays with his hand and not his fingers, giving it more of a roll action. Obviously his fingers do come into it, but playing solidly with his fingers will make it very hard.

[joeplaysthepiano]

I feel compelled to say something.  I was in the exact same position as this "young teenager" except that I was 21 when I wanted to start this piece.  I had done fairly well with all the repertoire that I had undertaken at the time and I wanted a real big challenge to see how far I could go.  Let me tell you that I met my match with this piece.  After many months of practicing this piece everyday for at least 30 minutes, I still could not get the piece up to speed.  I was learning the 3rd ballade simultaneously and I was able to learn that piece just fine (but again, after about 6 months of solid work), but this piece was a different story.

So I guess what I'm trying to do with this message is caution you and the teenager.  Chopin etudes can take extraordinary amounts of time to complete to satisfaction and you'll probably never be satisfied with how you play them.  They will, however, greatly enhance one's technique (I really applied the technique involved to the 3rd ballade).  So my advice for him is to go into learning this piece not with the expectation of performing the piece anytime soon.  Many concert pianists refuse to perform Chopin etudes because they aren't satisfied with how they play them.

If he can keep this in mind, I say go for it.  I certainly did, and while I won't be performing the piece anytime soon, I am a much better pianist for having practiced the piece for so long.  Tell him to practice slowly for a long time as well.  Good luck to both of you, and let us know how it turns out.

Joe

[xinox]

Hey,

There are few great topics in this forum that can help you learning/teaching 25/12


This one is very usefull..

And you must see Henrah's video as well

And you can take a look at this 2years old topic...

[helga]

Thank you all for pitching in with your advice. I will definitely keep you posted. For now, I don't even know if the teacher will assign this etude to my child. The teacher is going to carefully study it in relation to what my child has learned so far. She has never taught this piece before which is not to cast any doubt on her ability to teach it. But in the past I found out that I needed to prod her to keep the challenge up, more than she was used to when teaching children that age. My child never failed to rise up to the challenge, and said that without challenge it would be hard to keep the motivation. My own level of playing doesn't allow me to make a correct assessment in this case. But I do know that with the right kind of preparation a lot can be done to achieve seemingly unachievable at the time.
My child is pretty fluent in arpeggios but sometimes in fast pieces there is a problem with a bright sound coming from a thumb or a pinkie.  That might present a problem from the onset with the repeated notes in the etude's arpeggios. Also, to top it off, the fingering in the etude is entirely different from C minor arpeggios (because of the repeated note, I guess).  Any practical suggestion as to how should we change regular C minor arpeggio exercises to gradually close the gap between seemingly simple regular arpeggios to those challenging ones in the etude. On top of regular arpeggio technique, what should we keep in mind when learning the arpeggios from the etude? Any written insights into this particular etude from piano giants (do you know if it's worth to buy Cortot's edition, for example?). Thanks again.

[henrah]

C-Eb-C with 1-2-5, all the way up and down the keyboard.

Also, practice in chord sections but keeping the same tempo and note length, i.e: hold the first chord of 3 notes for the length of 3 notes. Count them in your head, then once you say the third note in your head, jump to the next chord and do the same. When you get to the turn around at the top (and bottom if you cycle it back and forth) hold it for the length of 5 notes, then jump to the next chord once you say the fifth in your head.

Now just translate that to your child

Also keep in mind that the bottom and top notes must be accented.
Henrah

[thorn]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,18517.msg199472.html#msg199472

look at the cortot edition that i posted here- his notes and exercises on the op 25 nr 12 are incredibly useful.

if you don't speak french, i could post a translation of them

[henrah]

if you don't speak french, i could post a translation of them

Please post a translation!

[xinox]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,18517.msg199472.html#msg199472

look at the cortot edition that i posted here- his notes and exercises on the op 25 nr 12 are incredibly useful.

if you don't speak french, i could post a translation of them

Yea, please translate it(25/12)...

[helga]

I meant to post my reply on this thread but accidentally posted it on a different one. So here it is, a plea for some more help.
helga


  Re: Etudes Op 25 by Chopin (Cortot Edition)
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2006, 07:12:51 PM »   

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Thank you all! You are great. I tested some of the technique tips posted in this thread and in the links, and they all worked great for me. My child has far better technique than I do, so I am confident now that with diligent work and patience he'll be able to learn this etude. Any suggestions as to how to build stamina to be able to get through the whole thing. I figured, it's really important to watch one's hand position like a hawk and avoid tension at all costs. Now, one thing that is still confusing to me, is that one of the posts (I think, it's in one of the links) somebody said that when going up or down with an arpeggio the wrist leads, whereas our teacher says the elbow leads. I also remember when watching one Russian teacher's demostration that it was the wrists that were leading. Can anybody explain to me, is it really two different ways to convey one and the same notion, or one way is really a no-no?
Internet is great! I love it! Thank you all in advance!
 
 
 

[helga]

Thorn,
I can't seem to be able to download this file. Adobe Acroban Reader just opens a blank page. That's first time ever. Any idea what I need to do?
And, no, I don't speak french. Would you please translate if you have a chance? Or perhaps someone knows where in the US an English version can be purchased?
helga