Suggest A 20th-Century Piece To Me

[phil13]

I am not one for listening to modern music, but I do need a piece for college auditions. Since I don't know much about even the famous ones, I am calling once again on the suggestions of this forum to help me become a little more knowledgeable. To give you an idea of my level, here is a list of my current rep and soon-to-be rep (I'm kind of at a crossroads right now, switching finished repertoire with new ones.)

Bach Prelude and Fugue No.12 in F minor, Bk.I
Bach Concerto in D minor, BWV 1052
Mozart Sonata in C minor, K.457
Grieg Sonata in E minor, Op.7
Chopin Etude in Ab major, Op.25 No.1
Schubert Impromptu in Gb major, Op.90 No.3
Rachmaninoff Prelude in G# minor, Op.32 No.12

Scriabin Mazurka in F minor, Op.25 No.1
Rachmaninoff Prelude in D major Op.23 No.5
Beethoven 'Pastorale' Sonata in D major, Op.28
Medtner Fairy Tale (unknown)*

*here's the second problem. I have no recordings and no idea which Medtner pieces are gold or which ones are dung. If you could suggest one, with its key and difficulty, that would be great.

Thank you so much in advance! Ultimately, I will pick the one that best fits my level and other repertoire, but it is always a good idea to collect others' opinions on matters as such.

Phil

[orlandopiano]

Try Prokofiev- maybe a few of his Visions Fugitives or Episodes.... or slightly more challenging, his Sarcasms. 

[phil13]

Crap, I forgot to narrow it down.

Here are a few basic guidelines:

No completely atonal or twelve-tone works, like Schoenberg, Webern, Berg, and a lot of the new modern composers. Scriabin is okay, the Impressionists are okay, most tonal stuff is okay

Not a lot of Prokofiev. I don't care much for his comedic works, or the bitonals, and my parents can't stand him (ironic, since they like 'Peter and the Wolf' but until recently never knew who wrote it.  )

NO Cage. I've already heard the joke about 4'33".

Bartok is okay.

That's all I can think of for now.

[shoenberg3]

possibly one of the easier Messiaen pieces.

[kriskicksass]

Bartok has some wonderful Bulgarian Dances from the Mikrokosmos if you don't mind a short-ish piece. His Allegro Barbaro is nice too, and loads of fun to play.

The Neo-Classicists like Kabelevsky (sp?) also have tons of nice music that isn't heard too often.

Debussy has so much good piano music that it isn't even worth naming individual pieces, but sometimes he isn't considered much of a 20th Century composer (which makes no sense at all, since the only requirement to being a 20th Century composer is living in the 20th Century, which he did).

American music is always good, too. Gershwin, Barber, and Copland all have some neat piano music you should check out. Just stay away from their large-scale works.

[pies]

Ligeti Etudes?

[verywellmister]

Don't forget Ravel!
I was gonna suggest Ginastera, but I don't think u'd like his music...

[nanabush]

Ravel look at his Miroirs/Tombeau de Couperin/Sonatine
Debussy ya too many to name... preludes/images, [could i be more vague?]
Rachmaninoff Etudes tableaux....... there's some crazy fast exiciting ones, some slow boring ones, and some very emotional, moving ones... if you're interested in any of those categories just say and ill tell yu which youd like.
Poulenc Tocatta i've recently become fond of
Barber Excursions are awesome, namely 1 and 4
Ginasteras Danzas Argentinas if massive dissonance is ur thing.

[phil13]

Massive dissonance ain't my thing, so no Ginastera.

Do Rachmaninoff and Debussy really count? If so, I could do many things with that.

Are all these pieces around the right level as what I posted as my current rep?

Phil

[franz_]

Ligeti Etudes?

That guy just died a few days ago...

[nicco]

That guy just died a few days ago...

So we are not allowed to play his music?

[nanabush]

Well the Rach Prelude IMO is more difficult than some of his etudes, and if you can play the full Grieg Sonata then I'm sure you could tackel most of the Rach etudes.  - And yes, they do count, cuz this music was written in the 20th century.  You should look at his opus 33, out of that set I liked #2 C major, 4 D minor, 5 Eb minor, 6 Eb major, 8 C# minor.

Or look at more of his preludes, op 23 #2 Bb major, 7 C minor, 9 Eb minor if your into double notes, Op 32 #1 C major, 3 E major, 4 E minor, 6 F minor, 8 Aminor, 9 A major, 10 B minor......... some of those are really short so maybe pairing some up, but not sure if you'd want to do that.

For Ravel the sonatine would be an excellent choice, but it is around 11 minutes.  Also, once again, with your current rep, I'm sure you could play this.  His tombeau de Couperin is underplayed, look at the Prelude, Rigaudon and Toccata from this.  You might find the toccata too difficult but it's still an awesome piece.

Out of his Miroirs look at Noctuelles or Vallee des Cloches.

Gershwin also has three preludes which are excellent and probably your level.  They should probably be played as a set.

Look at some Albeniz or Nazareth  if you want a completely different style of music, spanish rhythms, tango type music - some of which is very difficult.

For Debussy I barely know the preludes, but I do know that L'isle Joyeuse (not a prelude) would be an effective piece, also look at his suite for piano, Prelude and Toccata.

[franz_]

So we are not allowed to play his music?

Have I ever said this? I just didn't knew he was still alive. Just some information...

[phil13]

Wait a minute! Does Medtner count?

That would be perfect!

Phil

[jre58591]

medtner would be an awesome choice, but only if you have the technique to do it. however, medtner cannot be considered "true" 20th century, for his music is very romantic. another good choice would be to do one of carl vine's sonatas. these sonatas are very unique and not too "extreme". if you want to go toward impressionism, ravel, debussy, and dukas are your best bets. ravel's valses nobles et sentimentales are pretty good. debussy's images are also good. also, dukas's eb minor sonata and varations sur une theme de rameua are nice pieces. there are a ton of good 20th century pieces out there.

[phil13]

So, what are some of Medtner's Fairy Tales that would be around my level? I've only heard one- Op.34 No.2 in E minor- amazing piece of music but it looks like it kills the left hand.

Phil

[jre58591]

So, what are some of Medtner's Fairy Tales that would be around my level? I've only heard one- Op.34 No.2 in E minor- amazing piece of music but it looks like it kills the left hand.

well, unfortunately, ive heard just about every piece by medtner and everything seems difficult to some extent. regarding the fairy tales, take a look at the op 14 fairy tales. those are a bit on the easier side, especially number 1. about the op 34 no 2 fairy tale, yes that would be quite a challenge on the left hand that would require a formidable technique, as would the other 3 in that set. although, like i said, medtner is not a "true" 20th century compsoer, for his muisc is extremely romantic.

[tompilk]

my favourite Medtner is Sonata Romantica... absolutely amazing... i think it's quite difficult though...
Tom

[jre58591]

my favourite Medtner is Sonata Romantica... absolutely amazing... i think it's quite difficult though...

i completely agree. sonata romantica is my all time fav medtner solo piece, with teh night wind sonata in second. thses are good pieces to learn, but its also some of the most difficult romantic piano literature ive ever seen. i think you should go ahead and learn some easy medtner (if it exists), for you might be able to pass that off as 20th century.

[phil13]

i completely agree. sonata romantica is my all time fav medtner solo piece, with teh night wind sonata in second. thses are good pieces to learn, but its also some of the most difficult romantic piano literature ive ever seen. i think you should go ahead and learn some easy medtner (if it exists), for you might be able to pass that off as 20th century.

True, I originally used Debussy last year, but this seems like a better fit.

Idk, the music is ordered and the fairy tales should arrive within 2 weeks. Maybe I'll browse through them when they arrive and find a good one. There has to be some Medtner at my level.

You know who we need right now? Bernhard. 

Phil

[phil13]

Okay, here's a new idea.

What about Faure? His late music must count as 20th century for the same reason Debussy does.

The one I'm going to learn is Nocturne No.13 in B minor, Op.119.

Phil

[medtnerian]

So, what are some of Medtner's Fairy Tales that would be around my level? I've only heard one- Op.34 No.2 in E minor- amazing piece of music but it looks like it kills the left hand.

Phil

Actually, looking at what you already play, it could be playable for you with enough practice. Medtner's piano pieces are always very pianistic and "under your fingers", if you know what I mean. The left hand requires quite some stamina, but it's right under the hand most of the time, and the piece only lasts a little over two minutes. Give it a shot, Medtner needs to be heard by more people anyway!

[tompilk]

i completely agree. sonata romantica is my all time fav medtner solo piece, with teh night wind sonata in second. thses are good pieces to learn, but its also some of the most difficult romantic piano literature ive ever seen. i think you should go ahead and learn some easy medtner (if it exists), for you might be able to pass that off as 20th century.

the last 2mins of the first movement to the beginning of the second is the most genious and thrilling few bars of piano music ever written...
Tom

[jre58591]

the last 2mins of the first movement to the beginning of the second is the most genious and thrilling few bars of piano music ever written...
Tom

heartily agreed. who couldve thought of a better way to start a scherzo.

[phil13]

jre, since you seem to have every hard-to-find piece available for download and you reportedly have listened to almost all medtner's works, could you please post the sheets for Op.34 No.2 and maybe some of your own personal favorite fairy tales? I would highly appreciate it.

Phil

[jre58591]

jre, since you seem to have every hard-to-find piece available for download and you reportedly have listened to almost all medtner's works, could you please post the sheets for Op.34 No.2 and maybe some of your own personal favorite fairy tales? I would highly appreciate it.

Phil

ok, ill get right on it, but next week sometime, maybe monday. my computer is presently broken (no this is not an excuse), but i have the files in another hard drive and will find a way to post these by next week, unless thal comes to the rescue again.

[phil13]

I found another one, Op.35 No.4 in C# minor.

How difficult is this compared to 34-2?

Phil

[kitty on the keys]

Barber----Nocturne, Excursions, and the Ballade
Kabalevsky----Preludes
Kennon----3 preludes----make a great set or #3 alone is fun
Dello-Joio ----3rd Sonata

Kitty

[invictious]

John Cage - 4'33"

[jre58591]

I found another one, Op.35 No.4 in C# minor.

How difficult is this compared to 34-2?

Phil

op 35-4 is definitely not as hard on the left hand, but there are a ton of leaping chords and triplets, in addition to speed. 34-2 is mostly a left hand piece. ill be sure to upload both once i can.

[mike_lang]

I suggest Lowell Liebermann's "Gargoyles."  There are four movements, written in 1989 I believe.  I am told that piano faculty generally (Eastman, Indiana, J, etc.) prefer an American piece for the 20th century requirement of entrance auditions.

Best,
ML

[phil13]

John Cage - 4'33"

Ha ha ha.

Barber----Nocturne, Excursions, and the Ballade

I have only heard the Nocturne, and I HATED it. Does the Ballade lean towards that aspect of his music, or more towards the 'Adagio for Strings' style?

I suggest Lowell Liebermann's "Gargoyles." There are four movements, written in 1989 I believe. I am told that piano faculty generally (Eastman, Indiana, J, etc.) prefer an American piece for the 20th century requirement of entrance auditions.

Best,
ML

Is this tonal or atonal? What other music does it resemble?

BTW, Barber is an American composer, so if I can find a piano piece of his that I enjoy, maybe I'll consider that. I have a serious problem with playing any piece I can't connect with.

Phil

[tompilk]

the last movement of Barber piano sonata (fugue) is absolutely mind blowing and I love it, althjough I had to listen about 3 times to enjoy it... I dont think it would be classed as atonal but it really is a huge ride... and extremely difficult by the sounds of it...
Tom

[jre58591]

i would second both the liebermann gargoyles and the barber sonata. both are in a neo-romantic-ish style and are very effective performance and audition pieces. i particularly have seen the 4th piece in the gargoyles set (feroce) performed a great number of times at my music school, and there always have been good reviews. regarding the barber, it is not atonal (its key is actually e flat minor), but it is a modern piece in many respects. also, the fugue happens to be one of the greatest, msot difficult, msot virtuosic, and most effective finales ive seen for a sonata, especially 20th century. it is definitely one of my favorite 20th century pieces, along with barber's piano concerto and the medtner that i have not forgotten to upload. regarding medtnet, i think that the op 8 fairy tales are a perfect fit for someone that has not done medtner, especially the first one.  the first one is a slow, meditative march that is one of the easier ones ive seen. the 2nd is also a march that is a bit faster and rhythmic. these can both be found on the CD that hamelin released with the complete sonatas and forgotten melodies. ill upload op8 and the others you have requested as soon as my computer is working.

EDIT - i found a bit of free time on my sister's computer, so here is op 8. enjoy!

[mike_lang]

I would like to add to my post regarding the Gargoyles - know that they do not have to be performed as a complete set for auditions.  I only played nos. 1 and 3 of the work for my entrance auditions.

Best,
ML

[phil13]

Hmm...Op.8 No.2 looks and sounds interesting.

Jre, when you do post these pieces be sure to include some of the not-too-hard but not-too-easy ones if there are any. There don't need to be a ton, don't waste your time on that just because of me. Just find maybe 3 or 4 of your favorite ones and maybe 2 more that are fairly simple. So far, none of the Medtner fairy tales has struck me as incredible, just okay to good- 34-2 is the best one so far.

regarding the barber, it is not atonal (its key is actually e flat minor), but it is a modern piece in many respects. also, the fugue happens to be one of the greatest, msot difficult, msot virtuosic, and most effective finales ive seen for a sonata, especially 20th century.

the last movement of Barber piano sonata (fugue) is absolutely mind blowing and I love it, althjough I had to listen about 3 times to enjoy it... I dont think it would be classed as atonal but it really is a huge ride... and extremely difficult by the sounds of it...
Tom

Jre, If you don't think I'm ready for most Medtner, why would you OK the Barber sonata? Based on these two quotes, if this difficulty supercedes most of the other fugal sonata movements- including Beethoven's Hammerklavier and Op.110- then count me out of it. I've got way too many other pieces to learn this summer to deal with something that hard.

Phil

[phil13]

I suggest Lowell Liebermann's "Gargoyles."  There are four movements, written in 1989 I believe.  I am told that piano faculty generally (Eastman, Indiana, J, etc.) prefer an American piece for the 20th century requirement of entrance auditions.

Best,
ML

Do you know if the sheets are hard to come by? If so, could you e-mail them to me?

Phil

[pianote]

good thing the John Cage joke isn't getting old...

[jre58591]

Jre, If you don't think I'm ready for most Medtner, why would you OK the Barber sonata? Based on these two quotes, if this difficulty supercedes most of the other fugal sonata movements- including Beethoven's Hammerklavier and Op.110- then count me out of it. I've got way too many other pieces to learn this summer to deal with something that hard.

i didt really OK the barber sonata, i was jsut expressing my praise for it. well, on the contrary, you might be ready for barber. i really dont know what you can and cant handle, so jsut go with whatever you think is right. ill besure to psot soem more medtner once my computer is back running.

[tompilk]

the barber, i think, is no harder than hammerklavier... they are abouyt the same level for ABRSM grading...
Tom

[bflatminor24]

Prokofiev Diabolical Suggestion is a good piece for beggning 20th century. It's not technically difficult for the most part, but reading the notes is (as with a lot of more contemporary music).

With Bach, I spend 20% of the time learning all the notes, and 80% perfecting phrasing, voice leading and articulation. With Prokofiev, I spend 80% of the time with notes and 20% of the time doing the rest.

Also you might want to consider Prokofiev's Toccata in D minor, Op. 11 or perhaps some Debussy preludes.

-Max

[steve_m]

f

[dnephi]

Cadenza from Rachmaninoff's third piano concerto in 1st movement is 20th century....

In seriousness, Diabolic suggestion is a nice piece to me and I *hate* atonal music.  That adagio for strings is moving but did you know it came from a string quartet that was absolute garbage in the 1st and 3rd movements with the adagio in 2nd movement?

Diabolic suggestion AKA Satanic Apparition is cool. .

[jre58591]

i agree. the prok diabolic suggestion is a good starter piece for modern music, but it is severely overplayed. if you really want to make an impression on the judges for an audition, do something out of the ordinary to show that you dont like to follow the crowd.

[phil13]

Wow. I think I may have found the right piece.

I was asking my teacher about Barber today, and he gave me a CD to listen to. On it was a piece he recommended: Interlude No.1 in E-flat minor, also known as "Adagio for Jeanne". I listened to it, and I love it. And it doesn't sound too difficult, either.  Doesn't that seem perfect? I just hope it's not overplayed...

Phil

[phil13]

Oh, and as a footnote:

Jre, don't worry about uploading the Medtner for me. I'm getting the books today. Thanks anyway!

Phil

[tompilk]

medtner op 20 1 is really really really nice... just heard it and all i have to say is WOW... the best piece under 3mins i have ever heard... sounds tricky though...
Tom

[jre58591]

medtner op 20 1 is really really really nice... just heard it and all i have to say is WOW... the best piece under 3mins i have ever heard... sounds tricky though...
Tom

it doesnt look too difficult, judging from the score. it seems only to be an issue of octaves and cross-rhythms. who knows, you may see this in the audition room soon!

[phil13]

Yeah, if it beats out the Scriabin Polonaise (see other thread) and I figure out how to upload a recording. Or were you speaking of someone else? 

*cough* (yourself) *cough*

Phil

[nanabush]

Oo the third and fourth movement from Gargoyles are awesome!!!  I tried to fourth, but realized it is like playing the Chopin Eb minor prelude on crack x 20.  Listen to those, you can get the sheet music for the whole suite from gamingforce..