Hardest piece ever written?

[ihatepop]

Hello,

Who can tell me what was the hardest piece ever written (any composer will do)?

Cheers,
IHP

[ihatepop]

Hello.......









Anyone?!

[mephisto]

Go to "search". The exact same topic has been before.

[ihatepop]

Oh...so I realise...sorry!!!

[thalbergmad]

It is the "Opus Completebolloxisticum" by Leon Dudley.

Regards

Thal

[ihatepop]

It is the "Opus Completebolloxisticum" by Leon Dudley.

Regards

Thal

Whoa, long name...

I've never heard of it before. Do you (or anyone else) have the score?(Piano transcription, of course.)

[pianochild]

Lol its called the Opus clavicembalisticum , And i dont know how to get the sheet music rather then buying it, to be honest i dont like it myself, but i know others do, it is supposed to take months to learn and is over 5 hours long, 254 pages and 12 movements.

[ahinton]

It is the "Opus Completebolloxisticum" by Leon Dudley.

Regards

Thal

Who's Leon Dudley?

Best,

Alistair

[dnephi]

I wrote a piece and basically it's 20 hours of straight Liszt octaves and then 4 hours of random chord jumping.  I say it's the hardest piece ever written.

[phil13]

I would say the hardest piece to pull off in a live performance is that John Cage piece for organ that was started like 30 YEARS ago and now they've recently finally gotten around to the second chord...

Cage. What a nut job.

Phil

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

Concerning the hardest piece ever written, who knows what it is. I am sure that you can just write out random 10 note chords over 5 staves in 32 note values and put in a prestississississimo tempo. You get what I mean. However, asking a questions like: "What is the hardest playable piece ever written" is fair.

[debussy symbolism]

On to the actuall pieces, there are many very hard pieces such as the Transcendental Etudes of Liszt, Liszt's Remeniscence of Don Juan, the Spanish Rhapsody, ect. I've also heard of Beethoven's "Hammerklavier" sonata, but I am not familiar with it. Many "avant garde" or modern composers write music which is very difficult. Hope this helps.

[soliloquy]

 

Man...  how many goddamned times do I have to answer this question?  Oh yeah, every single time, because some ignorant fucktard puts Hammerklavier or Rach 3 or Opus Clavicembalisticum.  I think I should just copy/paste this post and put it in my signature so we can stop having to deal with these stupid threads.

Barlow Cogluotobusletismesi
Barrett Tract
Bussotti Pour Clavier
Cage Etudes Australes
Cognizetti Pentaphonic Etude
Diaz-Infante Solus
Finnissy all.fall.down.
Finnissy Solo Concerto No. 4
Flynn Trinity
Fox Twenty-Four Etudes
Fox Sonata No. 2
Hoban When the Panting Starts
Martino Pianississimo
Rzewski "The Road"
Scelsi Action Music
Skalkottas 32 Piano Pieces
Sorabji Sequentia Cyclica Super "Dies Irae" ex Missa pro Defunctis
Sorabji Sonata No. 5 "Opus Archimagicum"
Sorabji Symphonic Variations
Stockhausen Klavierstucke X
Xenakis Evryali
Xenakis Sieben Klavierstucke
Xenakis Synaphai
Yim :[ten]dril
Zimmermann Wunsterwanderung


Don't bother asking me which one is the hardest, because I promise you can't play any of them.

[debussy symbolism]

Well that's a friendly post Soliloquy . I just don't undestand why you have to be so inimical towards others, especially on a forum.

[bflatminor24]

Man...  how many goddamned times do I have to answer this question?  Oh yeah, every single time, because some ignorant fucktard puts Hammerklavier or Rach 3 or Opus Clavicembalisticum.  I think I should just copy/paste this post and put it in my signature so we can stop having to deal with these stupid threads.

Barlow Cogluotobusletismesi
Barrett Tract
Bussotti Pour Clavier
Cage Etudes Australes
Cognizetti Pentaphonic Etude
Diaz-Infante Solus
Finnissy all.fall.down.
Finnissy Solo Concerto No. 4
Flynn Trinity
Fox Twenty-Four Etudes
Fox Sonata No. 2
Hoban When the Panting Starts
Martino Pianississimo
Rzewski "The Road"
Scelsi Action Music
Skalkottas 32 Piano Pieces
Sorabji Sequentia Cyclica Super "Dies Irae" ex Missa pro Defunctis
Sorabji Sonata No. 5 "Opus Archimagicum"
Sorabji Symphonic Variations
Stockhausen Klavierstucke X
Xenakis Evryali
Xenakis Sieben Klavierstucke
Xenakis Synaphai
Yim :[ten]dril
Zimmermann Wunsterwanderung


Don't bother asking me which one is the hardest, because I promise you can't play any of them.

Well put. Thank God there are people like you. However, would you care to remind me why you omitted Sorabji Sonata 4, Opus C (which is incredibly hard, don't discredit it because of its infamy), Finnissy English Country Tunes, and Richard Barrett Tract?

Jonathan Powell and Marc-Andre Hamelin can play this stuff. None of us can.

Oh and by the way, I have the sheet music for Opus C if people are interested (Alistair, this isn't for your eyes!), but would someone please show me a page or two of Barlow's Congluotobusletismesi? I've heard this piece has some notoriety but I've never heard nor seen it so I can't comment. I'm familiar with every other piece except the Yim.

-Max

[jre58591]

Oh and by the way, I have the sheet music for Opus C if people are interested (Alistair, this isn't for your eyes!), but would someone please show me a page or two of Barlow's Congluotobusletismesi? I've heard this piece has some notoriety but I've never heard nor seen it so I can't comment. I'm familiar with every other piece except the Yim.

here ya go.

[brewtality]

Rach 3

[orlandopiano]

Man...  how many goddamned times do I have to answer this question?  Oh yeah, every single time, because some ignorant fucktard puts Hammerklavier or Rach 3 or Opus Clavicembalisticum.  I think I should just copy/paste this post and put it in my signature so we can stop having to deal with these stupid threads.

Barlow Cogluotobusletismesi
Barrett Tract
Bussotti Pour Clavier
Cage Etudes Australes
Cognizetti Pentaphonic Etude
Diaz-Infante Solus
Finnissy all.fall.down.
Finnissy Solo Concerto No. 4
Flynn Trinity
Fox Twenty-Four Etudes
Fox Sonata No. 2
Hoban When the Panting Starts
Martino Pianississimo
Rzewski "The Road"
Scelsi Action Music
Skalkottas 32 Piano Pieces
Sorabji Sequentia Cyclica Super "Dies Irae" ex Missa pro Defunctis
Sorabji Sonata No. 5 "Opus Archimagicum"
Sorabji Symphonic Variations
Stockhausen Klavierstucke X
Xenakis Evryali
Xenakis Sieben Klavierstucke
Xenakis Synaphai
Yim :[ten]dril
Zimmermann Wunsterwanderung

I think Rach 3 would be harder to perform for an audience.

[JCarey]

For those of you interested in discussing such music, my forum Piano Chat (https://pianochat.proboards25.com/index.cgi) is quite a bit friendlier toward people who want to discuss the more "controversial" composers intelligently. The hostility and ignorance that can be viewed on many of these other forums has not been found so far in Piano Chat.

Thank you, Soliloquy for the list. It's quite a bit more accurate.

bflatminor24: He ommitted Opus Clav. because, in comparison to some of Sorabji's other works, it is no where in the same league of difficulty. Soliloquy is quite right when he lists  Sequentia Cyclica Super "Dies Irae" ex Missa pro Defunctis, the 5th Sonata, and the Symphonic Variations as being harder.

Now you may resume... let's see, where were we? Rach 3?

[avetma]

Now you may resume... let's see, where were we? Rach 3?

Yes, rach3 is much harder because it was written with intense that people really play it and enjoy in playing/listening it.

[soliloquy]

Well put. Thank God there are people like you.

You'd be pretty annoyed too if you had to answer this question 2-3 times a month.  Plus I had just spent 20 minutes talking about why Ferneyhough is indeed harder than Sibelius' Violin Concerto on a violin forum.

However, would you care to remind me why you omitted Sorabji Sonata 4, Opus C (which is incredibly hard, don't discredit it because of its infamy)

Sonata No. 4 is like chopsticks compared to a lot of Sorabji's music that didn't get listed. I can give you a list of about 20 pieces harder than Sonata No. 4

Opus Clavicembalisticum is of course very hard.  Nobody said it wasn't.  A Prokofiev Sonata is very hard too.  But it's not hard enough.  All of the pieces on that list are considerably harder.

, Finnissy English Country Tunes,

Umz, I promise you're not in a position to question any judgement I pass on Finnissy.  I know that sounds rediculously conceited and pretentious, but please remember we have talked before on the phone, and I am fully aware of the difference between your knowledge and my knowledge of the works of Finnissy.  There are, of course, 2 clusters in that work, which are insanely difficult (in "Midsummer Morn" and "Seeds of Love") but, as the same with Sorabji, as a whole that piece doesn't even compare to MANY of Finnissy's works such as but not limited to Solo Concerto No. 4, all.fall.down., Folklore, Enough, New Views on Old Complexity, History of Photography in Sound etc.

and Richard Barrett Tract?

Yeah... if you check the list I gave again I'm sure you'll find Tract in there.

Jonathan Powell and Marc-Andre Hamelin can play this stuff. None of us can.

Don't assume there isn't someone here that plays several of these pieces.

but would someone please show me a page or two of Barlow's Congluotobusletismesi?  I'm familiar with every other piece except the Yim.

-Max

I can give you the full score to both of those pieces, along with all of the other pieces listed.

[bflatminor24]

Hey Soliloquy,

I respectfully disagree regarding Opus C, Engilsh Country Tunes, Sonata 4, etc. And yes, they are hard enough, and if you are going to be completely circumspect about this, bear in mind that you listed a lot of works that are not even tantamount to those in difficulty, but you were going for some diversity, which I can understand.

Now please explain why you chose to omit Ferneyhough's compositions as well as Dench and other avant-garde composers of exorbitantly difficult music.

Oh and by the way, you mentioned we spoke on the phone? Let me assure you, the brief time you spent on the phone with me couldn't possibly be indicative of my knowledge on the subject, so please, save yourself the judgment on this one and stick to what you know. You don't have to make this a contest of knowledge and some kind of reference war. I've met Michael Finnissy in person and spoken with him and his colleagues at Stanford, coupled with extensive reading and listening, so I consider myself adequately versed in his style and works. 'Nuff said.

And if you are indeed Maddycrew (aka I_LOVE_XENAKIS), you owe me some music. Remember how I sent you English Country Tunes? You never hit me back with some stuff I asked for like the Grieg Peer Gynt Suite. Not the classiest thing in the world to sign off and never sign on again in hopes to avoid swapping recordings. If you don't want to return the favor, just say so. Grow a sack dude.

-Max

PS if you aren't Maddycrew, disregard the last paragraph.

[nanabush]

Wow like every single one of these pieces that are insanely difficult sound like pure a**

[thalbergmad]

You'd be pretty annoyed too if you had to answer this question 2-3 times a month. 

I did not realise that you had to answer.

Perhaps it would be better if you did not.

[soliloquy]

Hey Soliloquy,

I respectfully disagree regarding Opus C, Engilsh Country Tunes, Sonata 4, etc. And yes, they are hard enough, and if you are going to be completely circumspect about this, bear in mind that you listed a lot of works that are not even tantamount to those in difficulty, but you were going for some diversity, which I can understand.

I'm curious to know what works you refer to.

Now please explain why you chose to omit Ferneyhough's compositions as well as Dench and other avant-garde composers of exorbitantly difficult music.

Do you possibly mean maybe Chris Dench's "Topologies"?  As you later claim to know Finnissy, I shall now "claim", and by claim I mean tell you, I know Dench's teacher, Ian Pace, and have seen every piece written by him, and none of them are as difficult as anything posted above.  Topologies is certainly his most difficult work, and I would approximate its difficulty at the level of Xenakis' Mists.  Brian Ferneyhough's work is more infamous than difficult FOR THE PIANO; it is quite infamous enough for his string or wind works.  I'm sure you'll agree that neither of his (comparitively) large piano works, Opus Contra Naturam or Lemma-Icon-Epigram, are as difficult as even the works of Dench who you also cited.  I would like to say something though, and please do NOT take this as an insult, but you are not a high-level pianist, which you admitted yourself.  When it comes to works of this enormous technical requirement, what something looks like and what is actually required to play it are two totally different things.  There are many factors involved that you would most-likely not take into consideration that a pianist would.  The "rhythms" or lack-there-of and the leaps required in the works of Dench and Ferneyhough, along with other Avant-Garde composers such as Barraque, Rihm, Kagel, Dillon, Erber, Takahashi et al. would most likely make a piece such as Barraque's Sonate LOOK more difficult than say... Evryali... but there are many many factors that you simply wouldn't consider when judging pieces like this.  If you would like to cite a specific piece or two (please do not drop a list of 20 pieces on me) I would be willing to go through page by page why what looks insanely difficult could be overcome more easily than the technical challenges in the works listed above.  Also, there will always be personal opinion in this type of thread, such asyour opinion that I listed works that are easier than Sorabji Sonata No. 4.  Of course, you could easily say that the length of that piece would make it more difficult than the Cognizetti, which is only 14 minutes, but by this principle I could say Cage's "As Slow as Possible" is the most difficult piece.  The list I provided was more aimed at what piece would be:

A- the most difficult to execute perfectly

and

B- the most difficult/exhausting/painful in its respective time duration.

I did list three of Sorabji's pieces (the ones that are in my opinion the most difficult) and Rzewski's "The Road" due to their extremely taxing nature.  It would be unfare to simply list all of the longest pieces that are difficult.  I defy you to show me an 8 minute excerpt that is harder than Xenakis' "Evryali" from Opus Clavicembalisticum, or a 25 minute excerpt from Sorabji's Sonata No. 4 that is more difficult than Bussotti's "Pour Clavier".  Also, I would like to say that many of the works I did list are over an hour long, and nearly all of them are above 30 minutes; there are very few "short" pieces.

Oh and by the way, you mentioned we spoke on the phone? Let me assure you, the brief time you spent on the phone with me couldn't possibly be indicative of my knowledge on the subject, so please, save yourself the judgment on this one and stick to what you know. You don't have to make this a contest of knowledge and some kind of reference war. I've met Michael Finnissy in person and spoken with him and his colleagues at Stanford, coupled with extensive reading and listening, so I consider myself adequately versed in his style and works. 'Nuff said.

You could be sleeping with Michael Finnissy and the fact that I play Finnissy and you don't makes me more of a source.  Whether or not you could tell me what his favorite movie is or what kind of wine he likes to drink does not make you an expert on judging his music.  Also, your assumption that I have never spoken to Michael Finnissy, or moreover Ian Pace, who plays the complete Finnissy Music, or Nicholas Hodges, who plays enough of it, would be quite wrong.  You say you have had "extensive listening".  This leads me to believe that your knowledge on his works would end at the ones that have been recorded, and I can tell you without a doubt that many of his most difficult works have not been recorded.  This should be "'nuff said", but I'm sure you'll want the last word.

And if you are indeed Maddycrew (aka I_LOVE_XENAKIS), you owe me some music. Remember how I sent you English Country Tunes? You never hit me back with some stuff I asked for like the Grieg Peer Gynt Suite. Not the classiest thing in the world to sign off and never sign on again in hopes to avoid swapping recordings. If you don't want to return the favor, just say so. Grow a sack dude.

-Max

PS if you aren't Maddycrew, disregard the last paragraph.

I believe you owe me some music too, and that you would get your music when I got mine.  Well, I do occasionally check the mail, and I have yet to see the music you supposedly mailed to me.  Maybe you wrote down the wrong address?  I'm afraid I can not be held responsible for that.  Why don't you show me the shipping receipt from Amazon where you apparently sent it from, and I will show you where you mistyped my address, assuming there is a shipping receipt at all, which I strongly doubt.  Also, I blocked you because you're annoying; not because I didn't want to give you music.  I had spent quite a while getting all of the music you requested ready to send;it's not like it was in my favor to suddenly decide to not give it to you, seeing as how I had already done the work =P

[kriskicksass]

Could somebody post the sheets for English Country Tunes? I used to have them, but I lost them from my harddrive. (Is it even legal to post sheets from still-living composers?)

[bflatminor24]

I'm curious to know what works you refer to.


Do you possibly mean maybe Chris Dench's "Topologies"?  As you later claim to know Finnissy, I shall now "claim", and by claim I mean tell you, I know Dench's teacher, Ian Pace, and have seen every piece written by him, and none of them are as difficult as anything posted above.  Topologies is certainly his most difficult work, and I would approximate its difficulty at the level of Xenakis' Mists.  Brian Ferneyhough's work is more infamous than difficult FOR THE PIANO; it is quite infamous enough for his string or wind works.  I'm sure you'll agree that neither of his (comparitively) large piano works, Opus Contra Naturam or Lemma-Icon-Epigram, are as difficult as even the works of Dench who you also cited.  I would like to say something though, and please do NOT take this as an insult, but you are not a high-level pianist, which you admitted yourself.  When it comes to works of this enormous technical requirement, what something looks like and what is actually required to play it are two totally different things.  There are many factors involved that you would most-likely not take into consideration that a pianist would.  The "rhythms" or lack-there-of and the leaps required in the works of Dench and Ferneyhough, along with other Avant-Garde composers such as Barraque, Rihm, Kagel, Dillon, Erber, Takahashi et al. would most likely make a piece such as Barraque's Sonate LOOK more difficult than say... Evryali... but there are many many factors that you simply wouldn't consider when judging pieces like this.  If you would like to cite a specific piece or two (please do not drop a list of 20 pieces on me) I would be willing to go through page by page why what looks insanely difficult could be overcome more easily than the technical challenges in the works listed above.  Also, there will always be personal opinion in this type of thread, such asyour opinion that I listed works that are easier than Sorabji Sonata No. 4.  Of course, you could easily say that the length of that piece would make it more difficult than the Cognizetti, which is only 14 minutes, but by this principal I could say Cage's "As Slow as Possible" is the most difficult piece.  The list I provided was more aimed at what piece would be:

A- the most difficult to execute perfectly

and

B- the most difficult/exhausting/painful in its respective time duration.

I did list three of Sorabji's pieces (the ones that are in my opinion the most difficult) and Rzewski's "The Road" due to their extremely taxing nature.  It would be unfare to simply list all of the longest pieces that are difficult.  I defy you to show me an 8 minute excerpt that is harder than Xenakis' "Evryali" from Opus Clavicembalisticum, or a 25 minute excerpt from Sorabji's Sonata No. 4 that is more difficult than Bussotti's "Pour Clavier".  Also, I would like to say that many of the works I did list are over an hour long, and nearly all of them are above 30 minutes; there are very few "short" pieces.


You could be sleeping with Michael Finnissy and the fact that I play Finnissy and you don't makes me more of a source.  Whether or not you could tell me what his favorite movie is or what kind of wine he likes to drink does not make you an expert on judging his music.  Also, your assumption that I have never spoken to Michael Finnissy, or moreover Ian Pace, who plays the complete Finnissy Music, or Nicholas Hodges, who plays enough of it, would be quite wrong.  You say you have had "extensive listening".  This leads me to believe that your knowledge on his works would end at the ones that have been recorded, and I can tell you without a doubt that many of his most difficult works have not been recorded.  This should be "'nuff said", but I'm sure you'll want the last word.



I believe you owe me some music too, and that you would get your music when I got mine.  Well, I do occasionally check the mail, and I have yet to see the music you supposedly mailed to me.  Maybe you wrote down the wrong address?  I'm afraid I can not be held responsible for that.  Why don't you show me the shipping receipt from Amazon where you apparently sent it from, and I will show you where you mistyped my address, assuming there is a shipping receipt at all, which I strongly doubt.  Also, I blocked you because you're annoying; not because I didn't want to give you music.  I had spent quite a while getting all of the music you requested ready to send;it's not like it was in my favor to suddenly decide to not give it to you, seeing as how I had already done the work =P

Ok John I'll make this brief...

1. You're not the pianist you purport you are. You don't possess any kind of formidable technique EITHER, but at least I've learned enough of the standard repertoire to know what I'm doing. And don't give me this crap about you playing Evryali - if you were that good, I would have heard of you by now, or at least someone would. You'd have some kind of reputation. Yeah, you're ostensibly some kind of virtuoso. Highly unlikely.

2. I know what's technically difficult, and I am one to judge. Of course a professional's opinion would be a better one, but neither of us are professionals. Don't make yourself out to be one either. I've seen scores of many pieces, and I'm one to know what LOOKS hard versus what IS hard. Take Chopin Etude 10/2 for example, it doesn't look too daunting, but it's incredibly hard technically.

3. This whole diatribe about the Amazon purchase is moot. I mailed them to myself, you putz. I'm not going to send you a bunch of expensive music out of pure goodwill. You claim there isn't "evidence" I purchased it? Yeah? Well where's the evidence you even "did the work" to import those CDs I asked for in the first place? Guess we'll both have to settle for each other's word.

4. I have nothing against gay people, but why did you insist on filling my Amazon cart with gay pornography? As a "joke?" You sicko, that's not funny, that's disgusting. Go watch it by yourself.

5. Lastly, you could be "sleeping" with Ian Pace, but you aren't Ian Pace, and you won't be, so end this pissing match of who-knows-whom. Oh, and grow a sack dude.

[soliloquy]

Could somebody post the sheets for English Country Tunes? I used to have them, but I lost them from my harddrive. (Is it even legal to post sheets from still-living composers?)

Email address?

1. You're not the pianist you purport you are. You don't possess any kind of formidable technique EITHER, but at least I've learned enough of the standard repertoire to know what I'm doing. And don't give me this crap about you playing Evryali - if you were that good, I would have heard of you by now, or at least someone would. You'd have some kind of reputation. Yeah, you're ostensibly some kind of virtuoso. Highly unlikely.

 

Cunning strategy from an equally cunning linguist!  I'm sure you could find at least one recording of me if you decided to look.

2. I know what's technically difficult, and I am one to judge. Of course a professional's opinion would be a better one, but neither of us are professionals. Don't make yourself out to be one either. I've seen scores of many pieces, and I'm one to know what LOOKS hard versus what IS hard. Take Chopin Etude 10/2 for example, it doesn't look too daunting, but it's incredibly hard technically.

Alrighty; since you claim to be a good judge, please tell me the first three notes played in the pieces I listed, along with Sorabji's Sonata No. 4 and English Country Tunes.

3. This whole diatribe about the Amazon purchase is moot. I mailed them to myself, you putz. I'm not going to send you a bunch of expensive music out of pure goodwill. You claim there isn't "evidence" I purchased it? Yeah? Well where's the evidence you even "did the work" to import those CDs I asked for in the first place? Guess we'll both have to settle for each other's word.

You're right!  It is absolutely moot.  That must have been why you brought it up then?  I'll give you a screenshot a a folder with all the tracks you requested; no, hell, I'll give them to you for nothing if you should me a shipping receipt of the music you apparently bought.

4. I have nothing against gay people, but why did you insist on filling my Amazon cart with gay pornography? As a "joke?" You sicko, that's not funny, that's disgusting. Go watch it by yourself.

if you don't want your amazon cart full of homoerotic pornography you shouldn't be so loose with your password.  'Nuff said.  But this seems a bit moot.

5. Lastly, you could be "sleeping" with Ian Pace, but you aren't Ian Pace, and you won't be, so end this pissing match of who-knows-whom. Oh, and grow a sack dude.

If I remember correctly, I believe this "pissing match", as you so eloquently put it, wasn't started by me.  So, I should "grow a sack", and by "sack" I assume you mean "sac", referring to a ballsac, insinuating I have no balls (earth-shatteringly clever, btw.  It was even more-so the second time you said it in two consecutive posts).  Now, please give me the courtesy of dissecting this (no pun intended).  I should "grow a sac" by ending this pissing match?  Does that mean that If I end this "pissing match" that you started, I would then have balls?  I assume that this also means that if I didn't end this "pissing match" I would not have balls, ergo if I end it (I guess that would make me the bigger man, therefor earning me a ballsac) I would have balls, and you wouldn't.

Sounds like a fair trade to me.  I will no longer respond to any of your BS, thus attaining balls, my life-long dream, and leaving you rather ball-less.


PS- just so you don't like like a COMPLETE idiot (although it might be a bit late, please answer my question concerning the first 3 notes.  Oh wait, you're unfamiliar with the Yim, so you're exempt from that one.  But how bout the others?

[bflatminor24]

Email address?


 

Cunning strategy from an equally cunning linguist!  I'm sure you could find at least one recording of me if you decided to look.


Alrighty; since you claim to be a good judge, please tell me the first three notes played in the pieces I listed, along with Sorabji's Sonata No. 4 and English Country Tunes.


You're right!  It is absolutely moot.  That must have been why you brought it up then?  I'll give you a screenshot a a folder with all the tracks you requested; no, hell, I'll give them to you for nothing if you should me a shipping receipt of the music you apparently bought.


if you don't want your amazon cart full of homoerotic pornography you shouldn't be so loose with your password.  'Nuff said.  But this seems a bit moot.


If I remember correctly, I believe this "pissing match", as you so eloquently put it, wasn't started by me.  So, I should "grow a sack", and by "sack" I assume you mean "sac", referring to a ballsac, insinuating I have no balls (earth-shatteringly clever, btw.  It was even more-so the second time you said it in two consecutive posts).  Now, please give me the courtesy of dissecting this (no pun intended).  I should "grow a sac" by ending this pissing match?  Does that mean that If I end this "pissing match" that you started, I would then have balls?  I assume that this also means that if I didn't end this "pissing match" I would not have balls, ergo if I end it (I guess that would make me the bigger man, therefor earning me a ballsac) I would have balls, and you wouldn't.

Sounds like a fair trade to me.  I will no longer respond to any of your BS, thus attaining balls, my life-long dream, and leaving you rather ball-less.


PS- just so you don't like like a COMPLETE idiot (although it might be a bit late, please answer my question concerning the first 3 notes.  Oh wait, you're unfamiliar with the Yim, so you're exempt from that one.  But how bout the others?

Your antics don't convince me of anything. Forget about this whole music swapping thing. Obviously sending you English Country Tunes was a mistake since you failed to send me one CD in return.

I don't need to waste my time gathering scores for all those pieces to list notes, and I certainly don't need to validate my judgment by doing so. The notion that conforming to your request will somehow prove anything is infantile and absurd. That's a childish way to engage in a discussion.

And asking you to grow a ballsac is an expression meaning you're a pussy for taking a CD and running, and blocking me on AIM because I'm "annoying." That's a pussy way to behave, hence my comment about you growing some balls. Your rant about how you're sans balls either way (by avoiding a response, or by continuing the discussion) doesn't make any sense, and you clearly missed the point.

Meanwhile I'm having a great time enjoying the music I originally bought for YOU. The Rzewski Night Crossing is wonderful and it's such a pity you won't indulge yourself in the pleasure of enjoying this good music.

I am a very forgiving man and I have no problem reconciling this whole thing if you could tell me where to at least find some recordings of that music you listed above. I haven't heard ALL of it, I just said I had never even heard of Yim before. Then again I might have seen some of his works on that Japanese site Iberia. I also have no problem sending you recordings given you return the favor in a timely fashion.

[ahinton]

For those of you interested in discussing such music, my forum Piano Chat (https://pianochat.proboards25.com/index.cgi) is quite a bit friendlier toward people who want to discuss the more "controversial" composers intelligently. The hostility and ignorance that can be viewed on many of these other forums has not been found so far in Piano Chat.

Your statement here seems to have been borne out with a vengeance in certain subsequent postings to this thread, does it not?

Given that the World Cup (in which I have to confess I am not remotely interested) is preoccupying so many minds at present, I am minded of a curious fact. Whilst soccer seems to attract more than its fair share of off-pitch violence and other anti-social behaviour, rugby (union or league - and I'm not personally interested in them either), which is itself a more violent game, seems to attract almost none; might this be usefully compared to the apparent fact that discussion (in certain places) of extremes of challenging pianistic complexity and difficulty follows the soccer route whereas that of other repertoire (in the same places) tends more often to follow the rugger one? If so, I wonder why this should be?

Best,

Alistair

[bflatminor24]

Your statement here seems to have been borne out with a vengeance in certain subsequent postings to this thread, does it not?

Given that the World Cup (in which I have to confess I am not remotely interested) is preoccupying so many minds at present, I am minded of a curious fact. Whilst soccer seems to attract more than its fair share of off-pitch violence and other anti-social behaviour, rugby (union or league - and I'm not personally interested in them either), which is itself a more violent game, seems to attract almost none; might this be usefully compared to the apparent fact that discussion (in certain places) of extremes of challenging pianistic complexity and difficulty follows the soccer route whereas that of other repertoire (in the same places) tends more often to follow the rugger one? If so, I wonder why this should be?

Best,

Alistair

I don't think it's the nature of the content, I think it's the people involved. Thus I don't think this comparison is accurate. Soccer and rugby are fundamentally different sports, but the entailment of violence you noticed in soccer is not because of the less-violent nature of soccer, it's because of the breadth of it's fans. Rugby fans don't demonstrate the same hostility towards other teams the way I've seen soccer fans do. Interesting that you mention this though, because I think that ignorance fosters hostility. Essentially, by making spurious claims you invite hostility upon yourself in a quasi-academic community. And by 'you' I don't mean you personally but people in general. For example, if I were to claim that Chopin's piano music were compositionally inferior to Mendelssohn's, I would be inviting a world of pain upon myself, now wouldn't I?

-Max

[ahinton]

I'm sure you could find at least one recording of me if you decided to look.

Perhaps he doesn't know the name under which you have made recordings - in which case it would presumably be rather difficult for him to know where to look. Perhaps, on the other hand, he does - in which case I'll shut up. But, in either case, others who have contributed to this thread might not know and might well be interested - so, over to you...

Best,

Alistair

[bflatminor24]

Alistair is right, I don't know what to search for, all I know is that your name is John and you claim you can "play Evryali," so if I wanted to hear you play I would need some information such as where to look.

[ahinton]

I don't think it's the nature of the content, I think it's the people involved. Thus I don't think this comparison is accurate. Soccer and rugby are fundamentally different sports, but the entailment of violence you noticed in soccer is not because of the less-violent nature of soccer, it's because of the breadth of it's fans. Rugby fans don't demonstrate the same hostility towards other teams the way I've seen soccer fans do. Interesting that you mention this though, because I think that ignorance fosters hostility. Essentially, by making spurious claims you invite hostility upon yourself in a quasi-academic community. And by 'you' I don't mean you personally but people in general. For example, if I were to claim that Chopin's piano music were compositionally inferior to Mendelssohn's, I would be inviting a world of pain upon myself, now wouldn't I?

-Max

Good answer! - and yes, I rather think that you would!

Best,

Alistair

[jas]

I did not realise that you had to answer.

Perhaps it would be better if you did not.

Exactly. You don't want to rupture anything.

[shoenberg3]

Remarkably, this thread began in the most inane of questions and ended with one of most bookish arguments I have ever seen in these forums.

[ahinton]

Remarkably, this thread began in the most inane of questions and ended with one of most bookish arguments I have ever seen in these forums.

Sadly, since it's not the first time that the subject has been raised in this or other fora, what in particular is it that makes you assume that this particular instance of it is "remarkable"? Also, if you believe the "argument" here to have been "bookish", what kinds of book did you have in mind when so stating?

The question is not, I believe, an inane one in and of itself, even though I do feel that it may well be an over-estimated and misunderstood one that may not necessarily appear to address the reasons for and background to the various difficulties concerned - nor, perhaps, even the great variety of the difficulties themselves.

Best,

Alistair

[shoenberg3]

I am sure you understood what I had intended to say.

[nonfox]

I've heard that Islamey by Balakirev should be one of the hardest ever!?

[bflatminor24]

I've heard that Islamey by Balakirev should be one of the hardest ever!?

LOL I was waiting for someone to say that....Wow...good times...

[tompilk]

i remember thinking it was the hardest...
Tom

[ahinton]

I am sure you understood what I had intended to say.

I think that I did indeed understand it, even if in so doing I also felt in necessary to ask a question or two about it, as I did, so far without the succes of a response from you.

Best,

Alistair

[shoenberg3]

I think that I did indeed understand it, even if in so doing I also felt in necessary to ask a question or two about it, as I did, so far without the succes of a response from you.

Best,

Alistair

I felt that your "questions" were only to feed your pedantic appetite of correcting other's choice of words and, thus, felt no need to answer.

[nicco]

I think that I did indeed understand it, even if in so doing I also felt in necessary to ask a question or two about it, as I did, so far without the succes of a response from you.

Best,

Alistair

You give me a headache

Better,

Nicco

[ahinton]

I felt that your "questions" were only to feed your pedantic appetite of correcting other's choice of words and, thus, felt no need to answer.

Whether or not my questions - reference to which has, incidentally, no need of your inverted commas - were posed with a view to serving anything that you might believe to be a useful purpose is, of course, your personal prerogative to decide (for yourself, that is). That said, I remind you that the exchange was as follows. You wrote
Remarkably, this thread began in the most inane of questions and ended with one of most bookish arguments I have ever seen in these forums.

The notion that this thread began with what you claim to believe may be an inane question is open to reasonable challenge if not all other contributors thereto happen to share your view, as indeed is demonstrably the case; my questioning of your belief as to its inanity was therefore equally reasonable.

I drew your attention to the fact that this wa snot the first time that the subject had been raised in this or other fora and accordingly asked you - in a non-combative manner -  what it was that made you assume that this particular instance of it is "remarkable" and that, if you believe the "argument" here to have been "bookish", what kinds of "book" you had in mind when so stating? Again, not unreasonable or combative.

I stated that "the question is not, I believe, an inane one in and of itself, even though I do feel that it may well be an over-estimated and misunderstood one that may not necessarily appear to address the reasons for and background to the various difficulties concerned - nor, perhaps, even the great variety of the difficulties themselves". Again, the fact that I happen not to coincide with your view 100% and stated as much was reasonable and done in a non-combative manner.

The questions were therefore simple. No pedantry was accordingly involved, any more than was any desire to "correct" your perfectly reasonable choice of words (even though I did not entirely agree with them) or indeed anyone else's.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

You give me a headache

Better,

Nicco

It'll by now have developed into a full-blown migraine, no doubt, if you've read my last.

Let's not forget the thread subject, though; what kind or extent of headache does that give you?

Best of all,

Alistair

[nicco]

It'll by now have developed into a full-blown migraine, no doubt, if you've read my last.

Let's not forget the thread subject, though; what kind or extent of headache does that give you?

Best of all,

Alistair

No hablo english

good night

nicco

[ahinton]

No hablo english

good night

nicco

...by which claim I should presumably deduce that you've lost the English that you clearly had in your previous post; not to worry, I do realise that it's getting late...

Gute noces...

Best,

Alistair

[bflatminor24]

Where can I find recordings of more of Christopher Fox's works (i.e. etudes, sonatas)?

Are there any other exponents of Finnissy other than Pace? Not that I necessarily have something against Pace but I'd like alternative examples.

Similarly, where can I find a full version of The Road? I've only seen excerpts on Amazon, played by Rzewski himself.

Oh, and how do you pronounce Rzewski? I thought I knew, but I heard people pronouncing it both "reh-ZEW-ski" and "reh-CHEV-ski" and now I'm confused.

~Max~

[jre58591]

Similarly, where can I find a full version of The Road? I've only seen excerpts on Amazon, played by Rzewski himself.

Oh, and how do you pronounce Rzewski? I thought I knew, but I heard people pronouncing it both "reh-ZEW-ski" and "reh-CHEV-ski" and now I'm confused.

i have the full version of "the road" played by rzewski himself. ill see if i can upload it sometime later. and ive heard rzewski pronounced as "reh - ZHEV - ski", with the least emphasis on the first syllable.