Which type of pianist are you?

[contrapunctus]

"There are three kinds of pianists - Jewish pianists, homosexual pianists, and bad pianists." - Vladimir Horowitz

I am sure most of you have heard this before, so under which category do you belong?

Oh, and by the way, does anyone know any back story to this quote?

[westley]

I always sort of assumed that the extra punchline was thatas a jewish homosexual, Horowitz must be the best pianist ever.

[pianistimo]

i think people's personal lives somehow become seemingly the personal property of their reviewers and students and friends - and it becomes a very fine line between love/hate.  just as the paparazzi hounded princess diana - i think artists and generally good pianists deserve some privacy.

that said - i think u could add 'women' to the list.  they are not always jewish or homosexual.  just born sensitive and willing to admit fault (thereby increasing their chances to learn something during lessons).

what is the first thing u think about when u see a pianist?  do u wonder 'are they jewish?'  'arethey homosexual'  - does it matter?   if they play really really well - i think it is an area of talent and not based upon the matters of privacy that should remain private.  religion and sexual preference are private matters.

that said (yes - i go back and forth) - there are some extremely good looking pianists and i can see that a woman might wonder 'is he gay or straight?'  but, then again - even if he's 'gay' and not 'straight' - he can still be a wonderful human being and not necessarily a sexual object of desire every moment that he plays.  besides - we're not supposed to drool over people that way.  it's just very difficult when a guy looks good  and plays well.

[Waldszenen]

Horowitz's quote may have been famous but it is grossly untrue.

[thetrojanhorse]

Christ, it's supposed to be funny.

Go write your dissertation on "political-correctness" elsewhere.

[avetma]

It's very stupid sentence from Horowitz. When man shows his feelings than he is homosexual or jewish?!

Nonsense

[counterpoint]

What Horowitz wanted to say

all of the world's best pianists are either jewish or gay (or - in his case - both    )

any counterexamples...?

what do we learn from this?

the more troubles you have in life, the better pianist you will be.

sounds sarcastic but seems to be not that wrong

[phil13]

Jewish 

Phil

[ramseytheii]

I love it!  I wish I had thought of this poll.

Walter Ramsey

[moi_not_toi]

I think (in addition to being funny) as no one wants to admit being jewish (as the KKK might be at their door soon) or gay (except gay people) he was trying to say that no one is a good pianist.

I mean, you can't play everything, and that's what a good pianist is, thus you are either selfish, (no offence to jews), a bit off, (no offence to gays), or willing to admit that you're not the best their is.

[zheer]

 Bad

[prometheus]

Of course it is not true. Like someone said before, it was meant to be funny but it really isn't, at least not to me. Maybe russian did it more justice but in general I find the statement bigotric and that's not the same as political uncorrect. But I guess one needs to see this statement in its perspective. Maybe there was a lot of discrimination against both gay and jewish people. So maybe it was meant as a pun, as satire.

But the context has been lost, if my assumption is correct, the statement should be dropped and left behind.

[ramseytheii]

Of course it is not true. Like someone said before, it was meant to be funny but it really isn't, at least not to me. Maybe russian did it more justice but in general I find the statement bigotric and that's not the same as political uncorrect. But I guess one needs to see this statement in its perspective. Maybe there was a lot of discrimination against both gay and jewish people. So maybe it was meant as a pun, as satire.

But the context has been lost, if my assumption is correct, the statement should be dropped and left behind.

Bigotric? That's a funny word!    I think Horowitz was referring to 1) himself, and 2) the disproportionate number of Jewish and homosexual pianists.  I think the classical world there is neither discrimination against Jews nor against homosexuals.  In fact Rubinstein implied a common acceptance of homosexualists even from a hundred years ago; he wrote that he was surprised to hear Horowitz was marrying W. Toscanini, as "we all knew" Horowitz's true persuasions.  Knew, and accepted!

Walter Ramsey

[prometheus]

I knew is was not a good word. I tried to find an alternative I guess I either forgot or failed.

[ramseytheii]

I knew is was not a good word. I tried to find an alternative I guess I either forgot or failed.

Unacceptable!

Walter Ramsey
 

 

 

[moi_not_toi]

Bigotric? That's a funny word!    I think Horowitz was referring to 1) himself, and 2) the disproportionate number of Jewish and homosexual pianists.  I think the classical world there is neither discrimination against Jews nor against homosexuals.  In fact Rubinstein implied a common acceptance of homosexualists even from a hundred years ago; he wrote that he was surprised to hear Horowitz was marrying W. Toscanini, as "we all knew" Horowitz's true persuasions.  Knew, and accepted!

Walter Ramsey

Horowitz was gay!!!!???

[stevie]

and would you believe it...this man may have been gay too

[counterpoint]

Horowitz didn't say, every gay is a great pianist 

[jason2711]

bad... though I'm working on becoming Jewish...

But I think it's maybe due to the ostracism that both these groups face/ faced.  Many great pianists/ composers had to leave their country and family.  Horowitz was one, as was Chopin himself.  Cziffra spent time in a Soviet Prisoner of War camp.  (he wasn't gay or Jewish was he?  )  Barry Douglas, neither gay or Jewish, grew up in Northern Ireland at a time when the violence was at it it's worst.  And don't forget those great movies 'the pianist' and 'shine'.  Both times, the pianist gets separated from his family, and in the former he sees his whole world destroyed (well, more or less).

I think isolation often is important... too many distractions and you lose focus.  For something like training to be a concert pianist, you need to have an incredible drive.  Homosexuals probably back in Horowitz's day weren't so open, so most would have kept in the closet about it, and thus would have been pretty lonely.  Without generalising too much, Jews are often very ambitious.  For their relative abundance in Western Society, they are more likely to be in professional jobs.  Perhaps it is this determined ambition which works well becoming a concert pianist.

Of course, there are countless examples of non-gay, non-Jewish great pianists, I'm pretty sure Horowitz wasn't being too serious...

[counterpoint]

I'm pretty sure Horowitz wasn't being too serious...

serious and not serious at the same time, I think      

[Waldszenen]

Horowitz was gay!!!!???

Not Van Cliburn girlishly gay, but one of those folks who married but had a few "friends" to keep him company once in a while.

[moi_not_toi]

 
How depressing.

I feel sorry for his wife.

[counterpoint]

Horowitz was married by Wanda (Toscanini), as she told in a tv-interview, and I feel sorry for him. 

[chopinfan_22]

I think (in addition to being funny) as no one wants to admit being jewish (as the KKK might be at their door soon) or gay (except gay people) he was trying to say that no one is a good pianist.

I mean, you can't play everything, and that's what a good pianist is, thus you are either selfish, (no offence to jews), a bit off, (no offence to gays), or willing to admit that you're not the best their is.

I agree fully. I am bad.

[rimv2]

Of course it is not true. Like someone said before, it was meant to be funny but it really isn't, at least not to me. Maybe russian did it more justice but in general I find the statement bigotric and that's not the same as political uncorrect. But I guess one needs to see this statement in its perspective. Maybe there was a lot of discrimination against both gay and jewish people. So maybe it was meant as a pun, as satire.

But the context has been lost, if my assumption is correct, the statement should be dropped and left behind.

You're a gay jew arent you?

[edmundas]

   Stupid, REALY stupid question!!!!!!!!!!

[moi_not_toi]

You're a gay jew arent you?

Perhaps he just doesn't want to admit that he sucks like the rest of us. (oh, wait. That sounds SOO wrong. But I don't mean it that way)

[bachfan87]

Well of course he would have said that, he's Jewish.
I'm not Jewish, gay, and I sure hope I'm not bad! Though I'm probably bad compared to him of couse!

[alejo_90]

I'm not Jewish, I'm not Gay, I'm just Bad.

Best
Alex

Yay ! 250th post  !

[ramseytheii]

I'm not Jewish, I'm not Gay, I'm just Bad.

Best
Alex

Yay ! 250th post  !

Well - you'd have to be !
 

Walter Ramsey

[jre58591]

   Stupid, REALY stupid question!!!!!!!!!!

by saying this, you are blaspheming horowitz.

[alejo_90]

Well - you'd have to be !
 

Walter Ramsey

[frau]

What an excellent, humorous quote! I love it.

I'd go with homosexual, but since the whole sexuality thing is still very much up in the air... I'll go with bad.

[pies]

Horowitz was not gay! He had a wife (though they slept in separate beds...).

[cfortunato]

Brian Epstein must have been a great, great pianist.

[bernhard]

Horowitz was not gay! He had a wife

So did Tchaikovsky and Richter...

(though they slept in separate beds...).

There you go.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[moi_not_toi]

So did Tchaikovsky and Richter...

There you go.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Sleeping in seperate beds was a common practice in the US at that time. Don't tell me it wasn't everywhere else. (yeah, I know that it sounds like I think that the world thinks like the US, but I don't think that.)

[bernhard]

Sleeping in seperate beds was a common practice in the US at that time. Don't tell me it wasn't everywhere else.

Er... Ok. I won´t tell you then.

[moi_not_toi]

Er... Ok. I won´t tell you then.

[pianowelsh]

Just goes to show you dont have to be clever or a great politician to be a fantastic pianist!!

[brucesan]

Im sure that a person as intelligent as Horowitz couldnt have been serious when he made this comment. He was just making a joke out of the fact that a large number of professional pianists are Jewish or gay or both.

[pianolist]

So what's wrong with Wanda Toscanini? Nice gruff sense of humour. Very deep love in both their eyes, regardless of the sexuality. Not a fish in sight. Long live Wanda!

[pianolist]

By the way, here's our boy recording a Welte-Mignon piano roll.

[lostinidlewonder]

I always found that quote by Horowitz really shallow. What happens if I am a bad Jewish gay pianist, I am sure there are many there.

[brewtality]

I always found that quote by Horowitz really shallow. What happens if I am a bad Jewish gay pianist, I am sure there are many there.

oh come now, it's just a joke!

[andyd]

Anyone know what year Horowitz said this?

Andy

[hodi]

i'm israeli jewish