Contradictions in the Bible?

[schnabels_grandson]

Also to say that the other stories and the jesus story being so similar is a Coincidence is insane, these stroeis pre date christianity some by thousands of years now tid bits of these stories and others where mixed with the life of a great man YEshua the lion Jesus or Isa in arabic and hence u have the bible the new testament, is it also a coincidence that the old testament bears so much in common too persian and babylonian pagan religions that they could be the same with only one thing changed the use of one god YEt this is even disputed when in Translation u actually have numerous gods in the old testament Different Names of god of course a christian will tell u these names mean the same god names like EL a pagan god Elohim another god and the other i cannot think of as i studied this a while back when i was part of some religous groups but the other is actually very close in name too a babylonian god of the day. And would u really trust a known rapist and murderer King James as a viable translator of gods word. And yes your right about the romans not persecuting Christians u know Y there where none at the time of jesus death Jesus Was a JEW and his foloowers also ok and it is known that the jews were being persecuted at this time period and before Slave labor and other things. Also the two things that seperate christianity from other religions these cannot be proven the other religions had a spirit or god claiming thier son was his representative on earth, and u are telling me that the dahli lamas had no witnesses? ok. And the thing about jesus being foretold many civilizations had fortune tellers look at the kaballah for this they tell fortunes and futures this is from the old testament mystical jews. And all kings in power had seers in those days egeyptians assyrians babylonians Kus**tes. OK Heres a Question 6thGen or anyone else how old is the earth? and how old is the earth according too the bible?

The old testament has NOTHING in common with persian, babylonian, or any other pagan group.  The pagan nations' ways of worship were very different than the ancient Jews.  For example, worshipers of Molech sacrificed their children if fire, something The hebrew god would never ask for.

The stories similar to that of Jesus lack the above mentioned indications that Jesus was the only messiah.  Dude, king James didn't translate the bible himself.  He financed and ordered the translation.  I don't even use the king James.  When Jesus' followers dropped their religion of Judaism, they adopted Christianity.  Christians were around in large numbers by the end of the first century.  Some time after Jesus' death, The apostles opened their preaching work to the gentile nations.  First century christians were NOT only jews.

Jesus' presence was foretold in DETAIL.  There is no mistaking it.

The bible does not specify the age of the earth.  Some "christians" beleive it is about 6000 years old.  This is incorrect because in genesis, the term "day" is figurative.  

[DAwud7]

ok Well one thing i can never get about the bible is how would a perfect being put something that is figurative in his texts. Perfection would yield perfection therefore his word would need no interpretation because it woudl be perfectly understood in a perfect manner by all. Ok Second your history is false, Malech is only one persian god. The old Testament is pagan that is fact no argument can be made otherwise The old Testament Has more than one God YAweh El ELohim and in the acient hebrew language these corespond too pagan gods of the day and age.And as far as sacrificing thier children in fire im not going too believe this period just like people said the aztecs where sacrificers when in reality they believed in one supreme god Queozcotl i dont have time too spell it right the only sacrifices where of other warriors not Virgins(who in thier right mind would kill a virgin) or children this is lies told by historians because they did not feel like studying the religion back then and now the truth has been found by many scientists now studying acient religions. And yes other previous religions do state thier god sent down a messiah for us IT IS THE SAME STORY its LIKE REPEATED NOTES ON A PIANO same Crap over and over. OK and it dont matter if king james wrote it or financed it A known murderer and rapist putting together a project dealing with divinity and holliness is insane. Wold u follow a bible endorsed by hitler. Jesus presence was foretold in detail so where the others everything in that time was mystical a branch falling meant something would happen in the near future. Getting back too pagan gods The El in the bible in acient hebrew meant god And also meant ANu which was a god on the city state of UR. The Caninites were known to have worshipped a god by the name of IL hence u have El coming out in the bible.

[schnabels_grandson]

First of all, We are imperfect.  That which is perfect is not always easy for us imperfect humans to comprehend.  I don't know where you get your ideas.  Yahweh in hebrew means "he causes to become".  It does not share a similar definition with any pagan god's name.  In the OT, the god known as Yahweh is never reffered to as Molech, Bel, Marduk or any other.   I think your references are severely flawed.  Sure, other religions did claim that their leader was the messiah, but how many of these religions still exist today?   Islam,  Buddhism,  and maybe two others.  They lost their followers because there was no purpose behind their teachings.  By the way, Muhammad of Arabia was alive 500 years AFTER Jesus' death.   Jesus' presence was foretold and actually came to pass.  That's more than can be said for any of the other persons you listed.
Most people overlook the fact that the bible itself has undergone much persecution, yet it has survived to become the most widely circulated book ever.  Does this mean nothing to you?  Why do so many people own a bible if there's no point?  

El literally translates to "god".  God is a title, not a name.  You could rightly call Anu "El" because Anu was considered to be a GOD.  It's very much like me saying that if you call your god "dios" and I call mine "god", we are automatically talking about the same god, just because the two words mean the same thing.  You could be talking about Osiris and I could be talking about Yahweh.  As I said, I don't use the king James version.  

[liszmaninopin]

It is true that we are imperfect, but the Bible is, as well.

Yes, it is true that the OT foretold a messiah.  The reason that I am skeptical of alot of the "Jesus fulfilled prophecy" message is that the writers of the Bible could have stuck in lots of extra details that weren't true just to make it appear to future readers that he fulfilled prophecy.  In fact, that's what I suspect happened.

I think that the reason the Bible is so widely circulated is that so many people are born into families that believe in it, and so are taught the belief system before they are old enough to rationally think about it.  3 year olds believe in the Easter Bunny, and they believe in their Savior, Jesus.  The only difference is that no one ever tells them Jesus doesn't exist until they are that old that the thought is engrained in their mind.  Also, Christianity is without question the most evangelistic religion in the world, seeking converts everywhere.  How often do you encounter a Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, or Hindu missionary?

[chopiabin]

Its because these other religions believe that spirituality is personal and one should not interfere with others' lives.

[schnabels_grandson]

I think the reason you don't find missionaries from other religions is because they don't have a message that pertains to the entire human race.  They are not obligated to warn others about the impending destruction of this world.  Tell me, if you noticed your neighbors house was on fire, would you say to yourself  'ah he'll notice before it's to late' or would you run over and beat on the door and make sure that he gets out?  The message spread by Christians is as urgent as that, even more so.  

[thracozaag]

I think the reason you don't find missionaries from other religions is because they don't have a message that pertains to the entire human race.  They are not obligated to warn others about the impending destruction of this world.  Tell me, if you noticed your neighbors house was on fire, would you say to yourself  'ah he'll notice before it's to late' or would you run over and beat on the door and make sure that he gets out?  The message spread by Christians is as urgent as that, even more so.  

[eddie92099]

would you run over and beat on the door and make sure that he gets out?

Not if you were my neighbour,
Ed

[schnabels_grandson]

I bet you still would.  

[chopiabin]

I actually think that these other religions ( Hinduism and Buddhism) are even more pertinent to the human race than Christianity because they are not dogmatic. They teach love of all mankind and all different views. That is why they do not believe in trying to change someone's culture.

I have heard Christians say "Gandhi was a good man, but he is burning now." I think this is the difference between Christianity and the other two I mentioned. Hinduists and Buddhists would nevber say that anyone was going to be doomed to eternal hellfire.

[thracozaag]

I actually think that these other religions ( Hinduism and Buddhism) are even more pertinent to the human race than Christianity because they are not dogmatic. They teach love of all mankind and all different views. That is why they do not believe in trying to change someone's culture.

I have heard Christians say "Gandhi was a good man, but he is burning now." I think this is the difference between Christianity and the other two I mentioned. Hinduists and Buddhists would nevber say that anyone was going to be doomed to eternal hellfire.

 That's because "their God(s) don't matter"

[schnabels_grandson]

I actually think that these other religions ( Hinduism and Buddhism) are even more pertinent to the human race than Christianity because they are not dogmatic. They teach love of all mankind and all different views. That is why they do not believe in trying to change someone's culture.  

I have heard Christians say "Gandhi was a good man, but he is burning now." I think this is the difference between Christianity and the other two I mentioned. Hinduists and Buddhists would nevber say that anyone was going to be doomed to eternal hellfire.

Christianity also teaches love of all mankind. Unfortunately, there are few christians that follow this important commmand from Jesus.  These "christians" are not really christians because they are not trying their best to live by the bible's standards.  Anyone who tells you that someone is going to hell is not a true christian.  Hell is a non biblical doctrine, pagan even.  By believing that a loving God could torment someone forever, they are insulting God and in effect saying that they don't believe what he says.  Christianity also promises something that the other two don't.  That would be eternal life on a paradisaic earth with perfection.   They are nice philosophies, but their use is limited and ultimately inefectual at solving mankind's problems.

[liszmaninopin]

What's a perfect earth?

[liszmaninopin]

Actually, a thought just occurred to me.  How would you suggest I try to convince ardent fundamentalist hell-fire types that hell is an unbiblical doctrine?

[eddie92099]

What's a perfect earth?

One with no religion,
Ed

[schnabels_grandson]

Posted by: Liszmaninopin Today at 4:00pm
Actually, a thought just occurred to me.  How would you suggest I try to convince ardent fundamentalist hell-fire types that hell is an unbiblical doctrine?  

Simply show them scriptures in the bible that indicate unconsciousness after death - Ecclesiastes 9:5,6, 10; Psalms146:4.  Ask them why they feel that Hell would be useful if it's victims can't feel and pain or suffering.  If that doesn't shake them, get reference materials and show them the literal meanings of the words Sheol and Hades.  Sheol is Hebrew, Hades is Greek.  They both mean the same thing, which is the common grave of mankind.  Sheol and Hades are the words that are often translated as hell.  Ask them what scripture leads them to the conclusion that hell is a violent place of torture or that there is existence there after their death.  They will probably be unable to find one.  

[DAwud7]

First off your Trascription of Yaweh is wrong and not acient hebrew but is a translation of someone making it that. YAweh and all other gods in the bible come from other pagan gods of nearby religions, Hebrew we know is not the oldest language and comes from other languges Sanskrit is know too be thousands of years older. And no El And Elohim El was a god ANu in UR and Yaweh was a serpent god from UR. Elohim Actualy Meant a nation of gods, That is y U have Names like MICHA Power El GOd or other names similar too that Ariel and all the others that End with El esentially where calling themselves Gods or images of gods. And also 6th Gen i dont know about the perfect thing i dont think of our being in terms of perfect i think of it more in terms of balance like posotive and negative eneries. Just too Say that our minds are not capable of comprehending the true word of god is stupid on your part. Y Read the bible then if u cant comprehend its perfection. HOw do u know your pastor has come across with the perfect interpretation of the bibles perfect words. The whole thing is insane the bible is the most contradictory thing in the world. In some stories jesus has two angels in a room in the same account but a dif gospel he has one so many things like that how can u call this perfect. And just the mere fact that the bible has too be interpreted and can be interpreted in dif ways shows that it is far from perfect something perfect would have a universal meaning and everyone would be in agreement because it would be perfect no room for interpretation. Bottom line i stopped beliving at a young age of 8 or 9 when i realized the only reason i even prayed at night was too protect my self from the devil, This plus a multitude of questions that cant be awnsered. Also the bible is a pollutant or the catholic church for that matter the fact that the pope wont endorse birth control is insane and ruins my people in latin america and burdens them with over population this is stupid and all these faithfull follwers of christ get too do is live in poverty starve work and hope there is a heaven Wow i luv the bible, and god, and the pope.

[schnabels_grandson]

First off your Trascription of Yaweh is wrong and not acient hebrew but is a translation of someone making it that. YAweh and all other gods in the bible come from other pagan gods of nearby religions, Hebrew we know is not the oldest language and comes from other languges Sanskrit is know too be thousands of years older. And no El And Elohim El was a god ANu in UR and Yaweh was a serpent god from UR. Elohim Actualy Meant a nation of gods, That is y U have Names like MICHA Power El GOd or other names similar too that Ariel and all the others that End with El esentially where calling themselves Gods or images of gods. And also 6th Gen i dont know about the perfect thing i dont think of our being in terms of perfect i think of it more in terms of balance like posotive and negative eneries. Just too Say that our minds are not capable of comprehending the true word of god is stupid on your part. Y Read the bible then if u cant comprehend its perfection. HOw do u know your pastor has come across with the perfect interpretation of the bibles perfect words. The whole thing is insane the bible is the most contradictory thing in the world. In some stories jesus has two angels in a room in the same account but a dif gospel he has one so many things like that how can u call this perfect. And just the mere fact that the bible has too be interpreted and can be interpreted in dif ways shows that it is far from perfect something perfect would have a universal meaning and everyone would be in agreement because it would be perfect no room for interpretation. Bottom line i stopped beliving at a young age of 8 or 9 when i realized the only reason i even prayed at night was too protect my self from the devil, This plus a multitude of questions that cant be awnsered. Also the bible is a pollutant or the catholic church for that matter the fact that the pope wont endorse birth control is insane and ruins my people in latin america and burdens them with over population this is stupid and all these faithfull follwers of christ get too do is live in poverty starve work and hope there is a heaven Wow i luv the bible, and god, and the pope.

Prove that someone changed the meaning of Yahweh in ancient Hebrew.  Before you do so, I will say nothing on that point.  El is a suffix to names that have the word god in their meaning.  For example, Ariel means "Lion of God", Samuel means "Heard God" or "Asked of God",  Joel means "God is willing", Emmanuel means "God is with us", Daniel means "God is my judge".  The same is true with names that start with Je or Jo.  Joseph (my name) means "Yahweh adds to or increases", Jeremiah means "Yahweh will uplift", Jedediah means "Friend of Yahweh or Beloved of Yahweh".  Don't tell me that any name ending with El is calling it's holder a God.  That's crap.  Who cares if Sanskrit is older than Hebrew?  That doesn't mean that Hebrew was borrowed from it or any other language or that Hebrew doesn't have it's own words.  

I didn't say that imperfect humans couldn't understand the bible, I said it was difficult.  
Don't call the bible imperfect because some translations leave something to be desired.  The bible can only make sense in one way, but people overlook the errors in their "interpretations".  This is again human imperfection.  The bible does make perfect sense when "interpreted" correctly.  

I am sorry that you are dissilusioned with Christianity.  The Catholic church has an amazing power to do that to its members.  I could go on and on about what's wrong with the Catholic churches doctrines.  Why should you listen to the pope anyway?  Is he not an imperfect human as well?  I know most Catholics believe that papal infallibilty crock.  Too bad.  I guess abstenance is the only answer here?  

[thracozaag]

One with no religion,
Ed

 Amen to that

[DAwud7]

Ok well too get too the burden of prrof is hard its more based on what is more likely scince i am not a christian it makes more sense too me and many other scientists some christian the the gods in the bible are pagan and come from the pagan beliefs of the cananites. And your interpretation is somewhat correct but El Means a God Michael meant power god not translated as power of god but simply power god as in a name. The others u mention also the word Elohim Meant a nation of lords or gods. These meanings dont have much too do with the bible anyways.but getting back too proof Yaweh is similar in name too a pagan god of the cananites and in the bible his actions are similar too the god also i studied this stuff years ago when i was young so i cannot recall the name but i will look for it. The bible is too contradictory to be perfect This is FACT cannot be argued at All by nobody. I will post contradictions when i get more time citing verses and then verses that later contradict its unbelievable how many tell the same story in a different way. On top of all this book is how old there are no original copies the oldest thing anyone has is the dead sea scrolls supposedly 2000 years old that is it so whos bible are we really reading that is another thing i would like too know, The apocripha a set of books that cover the time after jesus death that are left out of the bible Y is this shouldnt these books be as important as others. Ok so the bible is a nice fairy tale ill give u that a fairy tale that has morals and values that are good, but so do other religions. I actually Switched too islam after christianity for a year, then too other religions or sects NAtion of Islam, The 5%ers, I read into The house of David now this group is interesting they use a bible much like the church and thier interpretation of it seems as good as any they qoute verses and all that, This group though believes the 12 lost tribes of isreal are comprised of the Native american Tribes of America and the black slaves that where brought too america. Now y is thier interpretation wrong me being mexican y can i not go with this and say ok well they qoute the bible and say the me a mexican i am decendent of the tribe of isachar. Y is thiers wrong but yours right or yours perfect and thiers imperfect. I personally dont foloow that group though i just found the reading interesting. But interestingly enough thier is proof native american tribes Taino indians of puerto rico had words that are exactly the same in acient hebrew.

[schnabels_grandson]

Ok well too get too the burden of prrof is hard its more based on what is more likely scince i am not a christian it makes more sense too me and many other scientists some christian the the gods in the bible are pagan and come from the pagan beliefs of the cananites. And your interpretation is somewhat correct but El Means a God Michael meant power god not translated as power of god but simply power god as in a name. The others u mention also the word Elohim Meant a nation of lords or gods. These meanings dont have much too do with the bible anyways.but getting back too proof Yaweh is similar in name too a pagan god of the cananites and in the bible his actions are similar too the god also i studied this stuff years ago when i was young so i cannot recall the name but i will look for it. The bible is too contradictory to be perfect This is FACT cannot be argued at All by nobody. I will post contradictions when i get more time citing verses and then verses that later contradict its unbelievable how many tell the same story in a different way. On top of all this book is how old there are no original copies the oldest thing anyone has is the dead sea scrolls supposedly 2000 years old that is it so whos bible are we really reading that is another thing i would like too know, The apocripha a set of books that cover the time after jesus death that are left out of the bible Y is this shouldnt these books be as important as others. Ok so the bible is a nice fairy tale ill give u that a fairy tale that has morals and values that are good, but so do other religions. I actually Switched too islam after christianity for a year, then too other religions or sects NAtion of Islam, The 5%ers, I read into The house of David now this group is interesting they use a bible much like the church and thier interpretation of it seems as good as any they qoute verses and all that, This group though believes the 12 lost tribes of isreal are comprised of the Native american Tribes of America and the black slaves that where brought too america. Now y is thier interpretation wrong me being mexican y can i not go with this and say ok well they qoute the bible and say the me a mexican i am decendent of the tribe of isachar. Y is thiers wrong but yours right or yours perfect and thiers imperfect. I personally dont foloow that group though i just found the reading interesting. But interestingly enough thier is proof native american tribes Taino indians of puerto rico had words that are exactly the same in acient hebrew.

I've never heard anyone else say that Yahweh is a derivative of a pagan god, personnality or name.  I don't think you are correct about the names.  History shows that the copyists of the ancient Hebrew Relgious writings were very faithful in copying every word exactly as it was in the document they were copying.  They have found several copies of many different bible books, presumably by different persons, that were identical in content.  The ancient Jews were very religious and would not have changed the word of God.  

The bible is too contradictory to be perfect?  This is fact?  Nobody can argue it?  Wrong.  Show me please, one single contradiction.  I am yet to notice one that can't be resolved with a little bit of study.

There is no reason to beleive, based on the bible, that Native Americans are descendant of the Hebrews.  Their interpretation is imperfect because it doesn't agree with the rest of the bible.  The bible can only work one way.  If people put an imperfect non-biblical idea into their interpretation, They are negating the use of the bible.  

[chopiabin]

I am not trying to get too involved here, but I do know that Hebrew descended from Sanakrit which descended from the early Indo-European languages.

Gen 6, I thought you didn't believe in eternal life.
What would be the point of doing what a self-righteous god tells you if there is no punishment? With hell, Christianity is hippocritical; without it, there's no point.

DAwud, I really respect and like your thoughts, but could you possibly use some semblance of grammar? It would make what you are saying much more comprehensible.

[schnabels_grandson]

I am not trying to get too involved here, but I do know that Hebrew descended from Sanakrit which descended from the early Indo-European languages.

Gen 6, I thought you didn't believe in eternal life.
What would be the point of doing what a self-righteous god tells you if there is no punishment? With hell, Christianity is hippocritical; without it, there's no point.

DAwud, I really respect and like your thoughts, but could you possibly use some semblance of grammar? It would make what you are saying much more comprehensible.  

Hebrew is not a descendant of Sanskrit.  It's not even in the same language family.https://www.bartleby.com/65/ha/HamitoSe.html

I believe in everlasting life on earth.  I don't believe in a spirit that leaves the body at death to go on to an unseen realm where it is tortured for eternity.  The punishment for disobeying God is plain death.  Death with no hope of life again, and if you value yours one bit, that should be enough incentive to do as your told.  If not, don't worry about it.  If death is your cup of tea, drink up.  Hypocrisy negates everything.  With hipocrisy Christianity is pointless.    

I too have been boggled by the failure on DAwud7's part to make coherent sentences.  I haven't said anything because I realise that English is not his first language and I'm cutting him some slack.  

[TwinkleFingers]

I don't believe in a spirit that leaves the body at death to go on to an unseen realm where it is tortured for eternity.  The punishment for disobeying God is plain death.  Death with no hope of life again, and if you value yours one bit, that should be enough incentive to do as your told.

so you dont believe in the Bible?? right?

[liszmaninopin]

Welcome back!

Of course I don't believe in the Bible.

[chopiabin]

HE"S BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chopiabin]

Hebrew is Indo-European, I believe (if not directly realated to Sanskrit).

[schnabels_grandson]

so you dont believe in the Bible?? right?

On the contrary, I believe the bible and only the bible.  Hell is a doctrine without basis in the bible.  Do you care to give me a scripture or two that suggest eternal suffering for sins commited in a short lifetime?

[schnabels_grandson]

Posted by: Chopiabin Today at 10:16am
Hebrew is Indo-European, I believe (if not directly realated to Sanskrit).  

Hebrew is Afro-Asiatic.  

[Noah]

HE"S BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!  

[chopiabin]

Ya nevvah kno, dis could be fun.

[DAwud7]

^th Gen too let u know Afro Asiatic is where the first people sprang out of that region so it would be safe too assume these people spoke the first languages the Sandskrit is the oldest known written language well 2nd oldest know written language in The world. The Oldest is a form of symbols that Came from Kush Ethiopia supposedly used by the True Scorpion king who was a real king back in pre egypt Africa. It is Also know that the indians where one of the first tribes too move out of africa so it is stupid too say thier language is not Afro Asiatic because India is in Asia and the people came out of africa. About the Grammar thing sorry im always in a hurry and i type in Aim jibberish. And your Readings of Hebrew dialect all come from a christian jew view. Which are biased towards thier religion y woudl they disprove the religion they follow. Also the YAweh thing HE WAS A SErpent God of UR from the CAnnanites u prove the bible is right on this fact. The Isrealites Are Decended of these people that are from cannan the middle east before the old testament was even written these people had religions That had the name yaweh and El is also a god of Ur and of Babylon and of the other acient civilizations the phonecians the people of crete all of them. Y are these religions even considered pagan beliefs. Second lets discuss the word pagan its comes from a latin word that meant rural area. Like we americans call peopel outside the city rednecks or hillbillies we makefun of them. The people of the hebrew cities merely saw the other religions as in the past as hillbillie games one reason they where labled pagan religions. A pagan nowadays is someone who adheres too a religion outside of the established orthodox. I do not consider Christianity or any other religion a orthodox (A Greek Word meaning ORtho=Right Dox=thinking) of mine, as A matter of fact i consider the bible a Anti ORthodox too anyone because it goes against all right thinking. And just hold on i will get numerous verses that contradict with others in the bible And no amount of study will correct them, they shouldnt need a correction in the first place the bible is perfect. Also for u too say the House of Davids interpretation of the bible is false. This is a judgment of yours this goes against what god says dont judge others. I find thier interpretation much more stimulating than yours, Y wouldnt i want too believe im decended of kings of isreal. And yes they have found hebrew writing in puerto rico Ancient. Now im not sure if puerto ricans are a tribe of isreal but i believ how the hebrew writing came by account of the Sufis. The Sufis are a Islamic mystic group similar too the kaballah. Now they say that the morrocans had long established trade routes with native americans hundreds of years before columbus this would explain hebrew artifacts in puerto rico. And it is known columbus had arabs on his ship with them Y. Well i would venture too say these arabs could translate the indians tongue scince they had previous contact. There would be no other reason too have enemies on your ship its known the spanish hated mooors and sent many of thier mestizzos too america, These are the whiter spaniards that are of castilian blood. Mestizzos are mixed blood Like Me im mixed blood. HEre is the bottom line on the bible Anythinking person would admit ok the bible has good principles which are good fine. But IT IS A FAIRY TALE brought too light by the fact that people crave power and with a religion emperors could unite groups of people that hated eachother under the same flag.The emperors of europe saw this and took it like the shieks of arabia took islam. And no constantine was a murder a homosexual and all the other things u could dream that leaders did back in those days, But hey What a great christian he was.

[DAwud7]

Also your link proves nothing. The description it gives of the ethiopia languages ( Kush is ethiopia in ancient times) resembles the sanskrit and other asians languages Chinese and acient langues older than chinese.

[chopiabin]

I'm mixed blood too! My Chinese friend calls me "mestizo."

[schnabels_grandson]

^th Gen too let u know Afro Asiatic is where the first people sprang out of that region so it would be safe too assume these people spoke the first languages the Sandskrit is the oldest known written language well 2nd oldest know written language in The world. The Oldest is a form of symbols that Came from Kush Ethiopia supposedly used by the True Scorpion king who was a real king back in pre egypt Africa. It is Also know that the indians where one of the first tribes too move out of africa so it is stupid too say thier language is not Afro Asiatic because India is in Asia and the people came out of africa. About the Grammar thing sorry im always in a hurry and i type in Aim jibberish. And your Readings of Hebrew dialect all come from a christian jew view. Which are biased towards thier religion y woudl they disprove the religion they follow. Also the YAweh thing HE WAS A SErpent God of UR from the CAnnanites u prove the bible is right on this fact. The Isrealites Are Decended of these people that are from cannan the middle east before the old testament was even written these people had religions That had the name yaweh and El is also a god of Ur and of Babylon and of the other acient civilizations the phonecians the people of crete all of them. Y are these religions even considered pagan beliefs. Second lets discuss the word pagan its comes from a latin word that meant rural area. Like we americans call peopel outside the city rednecks or hillbillies we makefun of them. The people of the hebrew cities merely saw the other religions as in the past as hillbillie games one reason they where labled pagan religions. A pagan nowadays is someone who adheres too a religion outside of the established orthodox. I do not consider Christianity or any other religion a orthodox (A Greek Word meaning ORtho=Right Dox=thinking) of mine, as A matter of fact i consider the bible a Anti ORthodox too anyone because it goes against all right thinking. And just hold on i will get numerous verses that contradict with others in the bible And no amount of study will correct them, they shouldnt need a correction in the first place the bible is perfect. Also for u too say the House of Davids interpretation of the bible is false. This is a judgment of yours this goes against what god says dont judge others. I find thier interpretation much more stimulating than yours, Y wouldnt i want too believe im decended of kings of isreal. And yes they have found hebrew writing in puerto rico Ancient. Now im not sure if puerto ricans are a tribe of isreal but i believ how the hebrew writing came by account of the Sufis. The Sufis are a Islamic mystic group similar too the kaballah. Now they say that the morrocans had long established trade routes with native americans hundreds of years before columbus this would explain hebrew artifacts in puerto rico. And it is known columbus had arabs on his ship with them Y. Well i would venture too say these arabs could translate the indians tongue scince they had previous contact. There would be no other reason too have enemies on your ship its known the spanish hated mooors and sent many of thier mestizzos too america, These are the whiter spaniards that are of castilian blood. Mestizzos are mixed blood Like Me im mixed blood. HEre is the bottom line on the bible Anythinking person would admit ok the bible has good principles which are good fine. But IT IS A FAIRY TALE brought too light by the fact that people crave power and with a religion emperors could unite groups of people that hated eachother under the same flag.The emperors of europe saw this and took it like the shieks of arabia took islam. And no constantine was a murder a homosexual and all the other things u could dream that leaders did back in those days, But hey What a great christian he was.

About the languages: take it up with the scholars if you feel that you know something they don't.

Here's a thought.  Maybe the Canaanites knew the true god's name?  Maybe this name was adapted to the Hebrew language and later the Canaanites ascribed false meanings to the name Yahweh, thus the confusion you are now suffering from?  I already told you, El means God.  God is a title.  Any "god" can be called "El".

Like I said, the bible is not easy for imperfect people to understand.  It takes study and a desire to understand in order to make sense of it.  

I don't see any possible value of being a descendant of Kind David.  Are you going to get money for it?  The throne of Israel?  It's not biblical and their claims can easily be refuted.  

It is true that many people in positions of power have abused the bible for their own benefit.  This doesn't detract from the value of the bible at all.  

It's amusing that you'll believe in other "mystic" groups, but you shun the bible.  I wonder why?  Why aren't all the other stories of yours simply "fairy tales"?  What may I ask, makes them more crediblie than the bible?

[chopiabin]

But what would be the point of a perfect book that not everyone can understand? Is the bible meant only for scholars? It seems to me that if it is perfect and absolute truth, and assiming that nothing is impossible for god, then it would be in some sort of universal language that everyone could understand.

Why would the bible only be revealed to a few tiny tribes in the Middle East? There are still people who don't know about the bible, so I wonder - why would a truly loving god only reveal himself to an isolated group of people and not the rest of the world?

[schnabels_grandson]

But what would be the point of a perfect book that not everyone can understand? Is the bible meant only for scholars? It seems to me that if it is perfect and absolute truth, and assiming that nothing is impossible for god, then it would be in some sort of universal language that everyone could understand.

Why would the bible only be revealed to a few tiny tribes in the Middle East? There are still people who don't know about the bible, so I wonder - why would a truly loving god only reveal himself to an isolated group of people and not the rest of the world?  

Chop, everyone can understand!  It just takes interest and effort.  Did anyone here just start playing Rachmaninoff one day with no prior experience or thought?  No, it takes study and real effort in order to gain eny level of understanding of anything.

According to the bible, by means of the Jews, "all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves".  Had the Jews lived up to their covenant with God, eventually the entire population of the earth would come to know God by means of them.  The Jews, However, rejected the messiah and lost their priveleges.  Hence, Christianity was born to replace the chosen nation of Israel as God's covenant people.  A few years after Jesus' death, it was apparent that the Jews as a people were not going to accept the Christ, so the ministry of the early Christians was opened to the Gentile nations.   Everyone has the chance and invitation to come to an accurate understanding of God and his purpose.  There are bound to be some that haven't heard of the bible, but it is unlikely that the number of them is great.  

[DAwud7]

i dont need too take anything up with the scholars that site proves nothin Sandskrit is older and comes out of africa. it does prove that the egyptian language is older huh is that y the Atum of the book of the dead and the Adam of the bible are similar in nature. YEs it is. No i dont believe in other mystical groups they have fact too back up thier story not a bible. The story was that arabs were on board with columbus and this is fact not a fairy tale that i have too study too get the meaning out of buts its so perfect i cant even really understand it anyways. The house of david Qoutes the bible and uses verses from the bible what if i simply dont like your white bible interpretation and want too follow these militant interpretors of the bible claiming that us decendants of the tribes of isreal are greater than all other races. I dont believe this but what if i wanted too y would yours be right and my wrong. And please dont awnser this with just because thier interpretation is wrong because what if yours is wrong. And no the religions outside of the cities were described as pagan religions cause they where old past times from the hills not because they where not right. That is fact look at the true meaning of the word. OK and i am not saying the bible has no value it has values and morals all that those are good follow the bible if u wish as long as u are good and true too yourself its fine. But i hate when i was younger going too school unfourtanetly a christian school it we were not supposed too watch secular tv but then the pastor in bible class would come in talking about what was on MTv the night before this was a joke.  And agian too get back too mystic groups i believe something that is believable provided with some facts ok now in the bible YEs Jesus existed i believe this because there is proof he is mentioned in Arabic writings of the time as Isa as moses is too as Musa.
OK well i want too ask a couple things. DO u think moses actually parted the red sea. Do u think that staffs thrown on too the ground turn into snakes, do u believe in court magicians and Seers.lastly do u believ the ever infinite story of Noah. Because people back in those times of the old testament did Just like every other acient group.

[liszmaninopin]

Not only does the Bible contradict itself, but observe how it contradicts reality.  Noah's flood is a particularly impossible tale.  It just didn't happen all the evidence is stacked against it so monumentally that it basically kills a view that the Bible is inerrant.

[schnabels_grandson]

i dont need too take anything up with the scholars that site proves nothin Sandskrit is older and comes out of africa. it does prove that the egyptian language is older huh is that y the Atum of the book of the dead and the Adam of the bible are similar in nature. YEs it is. No i dont believe in other mystical groups they have fact too back up thier story not a bible. The story was that arabs were on board with columbus and this is fact not a fairy tale that i have too study too get the meaning out of buts its so perfect i cant even really understand it anyways. The house of david Qoutes the bible and uses verses from the bible what if i simply dont like your white bible interpretation and want too follow these militant interpretors of the bible claiming that us decendants of the tribes of isreal are greater than all other races. I dont believe this but what if i wanted too y would yours be right and my wrong. And please dont awnser this with just because thier interpretation is wrong because what if yours is wrong. And no the religions outside of the cities were described as pagan religions cause they where old past times from the hills not because they where not right. That is fact look at the true meaning of the word. OK and i am not saying the bible has no value it has values and morals all that those are good follow the bible if u wish as long as u are good and true too yourself its fine. But i hate when i was younger going too school unfourtanetly a christian school it we were not supposed too watch secular tv but then the pastor in bible class would come in talking about what was on MTv the night before this was a joke.  And agian too get back too mystic groups i believe something that is believable provided with some facts ok now in the bible YEs Jesus existed i believe this because there is proof he is mentioned in Arabic writings of the time as Isa as moses is too as Musa.
OK well i want too ask a couple things. DO u think moses actually parted the red sea. Do u think that staffs thrown on too the ground turn into snakes, do u believe in court magicians and Seers.lastly do u believ the ever infinite story of Noah. Because people back in those times of the old testament did Just like every other acient group.

You're conclusion that Sanskrit came from Africa is incorrect.  Sanskrit and all of it's relatives were born out of the homeland of the family which is the Transcaucasus in Armenia. https://www.armenianhighland.com/homeland/chronicle120.html

A story is so perfect you can't understand it anyway?  Isn't that VERY contradictory to what you're saying?  So you can't understand one story that's perfect in your view, but you don't think the bible is perfect because it isn't easy to understand it?  

My interpretation would be right, because it couldn't be challenged by anything else in the bible.  The idea of racial superiority is irreconcileable to the bible.  According to it, we all are descendant of one man and one woman.  It is impossible to be better than someone else because you are part of a certain "race", when in reality there is only one true race, that is, the human race.

So some people are hypocrites.  There's no way around it.  Again, that doesn't negate the bible.  

Just because there are similarities between stories in the bible and the stories of different cultures doesn't negate the bibles version at all.  If anything, this should indicate that the story of the flood is true.  Where would such a story come from?  Do you think that people would just pull some fantastic story out of the air and spread it around as legend or fact?  

Not only does the Bible contradict itself, but observe how it contradicts reality.  Noah's flood is a particularly impossible tale.  It just didn't happen all the evidence is stacked against it so monumentally that it basically kills a view that the Bible is inerrant.

Could you provide some real proven facts that disprove the occurence of a flood?  All I have seen on here are theories about salination and the pyramids.  About water ecology:  Do you not think that if God could cause a flood, he could also protect the fish?  

[DAwud7]

ONce again in fairytale land mieda look Sanskrit is african in nature Indians come from africa as do the rest of people. Your little link expects me too believe that these languages are decended of a european nature i wont even bother too read it i have studied this stuff anyways and came up with my own conclusion as u should not someone elses. Flood story is fake false a fantasy at best if there was a flood the people ignorant too the rest of the world could have seen thier little valley flooded and figured the rest of the world was flooded. U really believe the story of noah if this aint a fairytale then i dont know what is. Look the bible old testament is full of tales of its times staffs turning too snakes people ceeing the future in dreams, all that stuff just like the so called pagan religions. Y are these so related in nature. Then u have the new testament written later with prophecies and the like its easy too write prophecies that will come true after they already have come true. I wouldnt put the birth of the new testament past constatine and his men devising a story around a noble leader and taking the jews story mixing it all up and boom u have control power and now what is it equal too MONEY, Wealth. And the language thing once again i read some more of your link and it proves NAda the language did not come from armenia the people of india came right out of africa already writing the sandskrit. And there where massive civilizations in India predating babylon and all the middle eastern ones and these civilizations where very advanced they had bathrooms and sewage in thier cities, And by the way europe and armenia had nothing at all at this time except damn cavemen drawing dumb pictures on the sides of walls while the indians where building bathrooms and speakinf languages and writing sandskrit u are the misinformed one sorry.

[schnabels_grandson]

ONce again in fairytale land mieda look Sanskrit is african in nature Indians come from africa as do the rest of people. Your little link expects me too believe that these languages are decended of a european nature i wont even bother too read it i have studied this stuff anyways and came up with my own conclusion as u should not someone elses. Flood story is fake false a fantasy at best if there was a flood the people ignorant too the rest of the world could have seen thier little valley flooded and figured the rest of the world was flooded. U really believe the story of noah if this aint a fairytale then i dont know what is. Look the bible old testament is full of tales of its times staffs turning too snakes people ceeing the future in dreams, all that stuff just like the so called pagan religions. Y are these so related in nature. Then u have the new testament written later with prophecies and the like its easy too write prophecies that will come true after they already have come true. I wouldnt put the birth of the new testament past constatine and his men devising a story around a noble leader and taking the jews story mixing it all up and boom u have control power and now what is it equal too MONEY, Wealth. And the language thing once again i read some more of your link and it proves NAda the language did not come from armenia the people of india came right out of africa already writing the sandskrit. And there where massive civilizations in India predating babylon and all the middle eastern ones and these civilizations where very advanced they had bathrooms and sewage in thier cities, And by the way europe and armenia had nothing at all at this time except d**n cavemen drawing dumb pictures on the sides of walls while the indians where building bathrooms and speakinf languages and writing sandskrit u are the misinformed one sorry.

Once again, you make claims without any attempt to back them up.  What do expect me to do, find the evidence for your side of the story as well?  Also, you claim the media has changed history.  Why would they do that?  What possible advantage is gained by distorting the facts about the origin of languages?  

Again, you fail to understand that if people do  something, it does not mean they are copying someone else.  Could it have been that other people copied the Israelite's srories?  How come this doesn't occur to you?

You seem to think that Constantine possibly invented Jesus.  This is not the case, as historical documents written well before Constantine was born indicate that Jesus was in fact a real person and really did what he is said to have done.

Hey, I didn't write that page, scholars did.  People who have the tools and knowledge to determine where languages come from.  It's a bad idea to make claims about things with little or no knowledge about them.  I believe that you've done "research", but the fact that nobody in the language study community agrees with your conclusions points to an error on your part.

I'm not going to respond to your calling me the "misinformed one".  I don't think that was nessecary or valid.

[liszmaninopin]

If you want specific info about what is wrong with the flood, I will try to explain as briefly as I can some basic flaws.

Just about all water ecosystems in the world have been destroyed in a worldwide flood.  There is no escaping it, unless one relies on miracles.  But that begs the question, why would god use miracles to protect the fish (forgetting coral, crabs, mussels, algae, kelp, turtles, etc.), but not the land animals?  He could just keep the land animals alive for the time using miracles, and his ark could feed men.  Why even bother with an ark if miracles can do the trick?  There is just no logical consistency.

The fossil record does not bear out a universal flood, in fact, along with the structure of earth's rocks, it contradicts such a fantasy.  I ask you, would you believe the flood story if it were in any other context than the Bible?

[DAwud7]

Ok maybe you are right sorry bout the misinformed one thing> ( this is all civil anyways). Ok on the site it says languages come from armenia but it says all these languages are decended of older ones that are in the orient. The lanaguage of Khem that is the name of acient egypt this is where the word alchemy comes from ALKHEMY. Khem was a word used too describe the parts of egypt these languages are ancient this is the older one than sankrit the one i talked about. Sankrit comes from this as the languages of the orient derive of this language. And look ok maybe the others around took the isrealites ideas but where do the isrealites ideas come from. Acient history shows first civilizations and man coming from africa date is disputed some scholars date the sphinx and a 100 thousand years and these are not off the wall scholars they just cannot pin point a date, side note i did read a study once that said the sphinx showed a distinct decay when it was observed way back in the early 1900s that now has been identified as what ice would have done with it, i do not recall the date of the last time there was ice over the sahara but i believe it was something like 10 thousand years i foudn this too be intersting. Anyways back too the point Egyptian book of the dead Predates the old testament by a thousand years the hindu Vedha predates the bible these are much older thoughts and religions that have some similar stories too biblical stories. The other stories being older obviously would influence the newer ones it cannot be the other way around. And no i said in my post that jesus was documented in arab scripts Did u miss this. His name was Isa, also known as Yeshewa and in India his exploits where recorded as Krishna duiring the time of jesus there is mention of a krishna saint coincedence, no. Anyways the old testament has so much in common with other pagan religions its almost the same stuff, Staff snakes, people partiing oceans ,Seers court magicians, Y would this stuff be in there these are not things that can happen and a all mighty god would know this.

[pianowolfi]

Haha i thought i would bump this up. Ramseytheii, ready to go?

[ahinton]

Haha i thought i would bump this up. Ramseytheii, ready to go?

Oh, pur-LEESE! Can't you bump it DOWN if you have to bump it anywhere? Surely you must realise that, before you can say "Jesus wept", it will be taken up by our resident Perspicaciously Proselytising Philadelphia-Pennsylvanian Pentecostal Presbyterian Protestant PIANISTIMO? (that's two more "p"s than even Tchaikovsky used in his Pathétique, by the way) and analysed, ruminated upon, linked to every small detail of her personal and family experiences at home today and generally Luke-chapter-this-verse-thatted up to the starry firmament of God's creation and beyond?

Having said all that, I do feel it incumbent upon me to make any and all apologies that may be due from me to our susanistimo; I do not wish to cause offence and am sure that, when not on her God-is-in-His-heaven-and-all-is-well-with-the-demi-monde soapbox, she's a perfectly nice and decent person with a husband and children whom she loves dearly and a piano which she probably loves almost as dearly...

Now - please let's leave this - and her - alone, othewise she'll probably come out of her sabbatical shell (it's still Sunday in PA) and start having a go at us all...

Best,

Alistair

[pianowolfi]

Well. there are some more interesting threads bopping up and down in the grey depth of this forum....

[ahinton]

Well. there are some more interesting threads bopping up and down in the grey depth of this forum....

Indeed; HUNDREDS of them, surely?!...

Best,

Alistair

[pianowolfi]

Indeed; HUNDREDS of them, surely?!...

Best,

Alistair

Especially some religious debate ones from the pre pianistimo era. 

[ramseytheii]

Haha i thought i would bump this up. Ramseytheii, ready to go?

Thanks!  I should have thought such a thread would already exist in PianoForum.  I repost here two of the contradictions that i posted elsewhere as a challenge to pianitisimo.  I would like to add a few words on why I am doing this, because as a Christian person I am not at all interested in burning the Bible like it is some Amerikan flag.  (Elbow to your ribcage)

I am doing this to challenge the vast insecurity of those who believe their faith will only stand, if the Bible contains not a single error.  The very question, "Which Bible," should be enough for that idea to burn into ashes, but it is apparently not.  There is an entire movement in Amerika of people so terrified and so psychologically abused by their evangelical pastors that they believe not a single mistake can exist in the Bible, and thus in their pastor.  This is a great abuse of power. 

Contradictions do exist in the Bible, and I point these out only to comfort those, that they do not have to live in denial, and that their faith and contradiction can actually go hand in hand.

---

Mark 15:25
"It was the third hour when they crucified him."

John 19:14
"It was the day of Preparation of Passover Week, about the sixth hour.
"Here is your king," Pilate said to the Jews."

---

Matthew 1
 1A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham:
    2Abraham was the father of Isaac,
         Isaac the father of Jacob,
         Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
       3Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
         Perez the father of Hezron,
         Hezron the father of Ram,
       4Ram the father of Amminadab,
         Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
         Nahshon the father of Salmon,
       5Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
         Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
         Obed the father of Jesse,
       6and Jesse the father of King David.
      David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah's wife,
    7Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
         Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
         Abijah the father of Asa,
       8Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
         Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
         Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
       9Uzziah the father of Jotham,
         Jotham the father of Ahaz,
         Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
       10Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
         Manasseh the father of Amon,
         Amon the father of Josiah,
       11and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[a] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
    12After the exile to Babylon:
         Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
         Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
       13Zerubbabel the father of Abiud,
         Abiud the father of Eliakim,
         Eliakim the father of Azor,
       14Azor the father of Zadok,
         Zadok the father of Akim,
         Akim the father of Eliud,
       15Eliud the father of Eleazar,
         Eleazar the father of Matthan,
         Matthan the father of Jacob,
       16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

 17Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ.

Luke 3:21
 23Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
      the son of Heli, 24the son of Matthat,
      the son of Levi, the son of Melki,
      the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
    25the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos,
      the son of Nahum, the son of Esli,
      the son of Naggai, 26the son of Maath,
      the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,
      the son of Josech, the son of Joda,
    27the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa,
      the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,
      the son of Neri, 28the son of Melki,
      the son of Addi, the son of Cosam,
      the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
    29the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer,
      the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat,
      the son of Levi, 30the son of Simeon,
      the son of Judah, the son of Joseph,
      the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,
    31the son of Melea, the son of Menna,
      the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan,
      the son of David, 32the son of Jesse,
      the son of Obed, the son of Boaz,
      the son of Salmon,[d] the son of Nahshon,
    33the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram,[e]
      the son of Hezron, the son of Perez,
      the son of Judah, 34the son of Jacob,
      the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,
      the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,
    35the son of Serug, the son of Reu,
      the son of Peleg, the son of Eber,
      the son of Shelah, 36the son of Cainan,
      the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem,
      the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
    37the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch,
      the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel,
      the son of Kenan, 38the son of Enosh,
      the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
      the son of God.


-----

These are only two which I post, which seem to me particularly difficult to reconcile.  It has been argued to me that the first example, about the hour of the crucifixion, was a "copyists error."  I quickly pointed out that a complete confession to errors in the Bible was just made.  Needless to say the comment was rescinded.  I invite all Bible literalists to address these two contradictions, and if you are succesful, your prize is that I will post two more.

Walter Ramsey