Best Publisher of Beethoven Sonatas?

[pianoperfmajor]

I need to order volume 2 of the Beethoven sonatas.  I would automatically order Henle, but I've been questioning Henle lately in some other editions I have with pedal markings and fingerings in particular.  I have Dover for volume 1 which has served me pretty well.  Any thoughts?

[mikey6]

I was reccomended the Schnabel AS WELL AS an urtext edition.  However I've been told differing stories on whether Schnabel actually contributed to the edition.  Don't get the Schirmer - you can't understand a bloody word in the notes!

[Kassaa]

Henle's pedal markings are only the one actually written in by the composer right? With what piece do you have problem with the pedal then? And fingering is often subjective, but most of Henle is pretty good. I would say Henle, also because I like the blue cover ^^ .

[kreso]

Peters-Arrau (very good fingering)
Wiener Urtext
Schnabel

trust me!

[pianoperfmajor]

Yeah, good fingering is mostly what I'm after...I'm also working on Prok 3rd sonata and the edition I have has absolutely NO fingering.  It takes me twice as long to devise my own fingering....    In any event, the Henle publication of the Ballades is really quite HORRIBLE.  I'm sure some will disagree with me, but the pedal markings are COMPLETELY unintuitive and don't make any sense at all.  Everyone thinks Henle is the end all be all publisher when it comes to music, but I'm seeing more and more that they really are quite poor in a practical sense.  I will go with some of these other suggestions, or maybe just stick to dover.

[Kassaa]

Yeah, good fingering is mostly what I'm after...I'm also working on Prok 3rd sonata and the edition I have has absolutely NO fingering.  It takes me twice as long to devise my own fingering....    In any event, the Henle publication of the Ballades is really quite HORRIBLE.  I'm sure some will disagree with me, but the pedal markings are COMPLETELY unintuitive and don't make any sense at all.  Everyone thinks Henle is the end all be all publisher when it comes to music, but I'm seeing more and more that they really are quite poor in a practical sense.  I will go with some of these other suggestions, or maybe just stick to dover.

The pedal markings are only those written by the composer, they're not added by the editor.

[quantum]

Don't get the Schirmer - you can't understand a bloody word in the notes!

It would save you sanity if you didn't understand the Schirmer notes.  Please don't get this edition - it was written a long time back when publishing practices were very different than they are today.  In fact, I bought both volumes for something like $2 at a used book sale, just to show my stundents why they should not buy this edition. 


I use Peters (Arrau), and like it a lot. 

I heard Perahia is working on a new edition for Henle. 

[Floristan]

Then there's the Tovey annoted sonatas published by ABRSM.  I think Tovey's comments, exercises, etc. are very valuable.

[kreso]

I heard Perahia is working on a new edition for Henle. 

Yes, I've also heard this news-I think that some of the sonatas are published in that edition (op.31/1 I think but not sure) It is ineteresting to see pianist-redactor edition (like Arrau or Schnabel) because they played Beethoven Sonatas on a stage so they have more expierence about fingering and some other things...

[faustsaccomplice]

Just to learn the piece, the Henle is the way to go, in my opinion.  There is no bs in them. 

But reading the editions of the great pianists after you've learned it can be very enlightening.  It's like a Talmud of sorts.  Schnabel, Arrau, even Liszt has an edition.  You get to see their thoughts on these works that they mastered.

The most worthless editions are those by stodgy academics.  I want to know that it was a great musician's thoughts, and not some old guy in a tweed jacket who "studied" them.

[pianojems]

I personally love Henle, I own book 2 and have no regrets. Here are the reasons I like it:

- the pages are opaque and not bright white, so there is no glare for the eyes. They are also larger in size than standard music books, and great on the eyes. (I absolutely hate bright, crammed pages)

- the notes are very well spaced and not cluttered (big annoyance with other editions)

- no editing, only original composer markings, allowing you to use appropriate fingers for yourself

- book allows you to take your own look and fresh aproach of the pieces, without biases from other pianists/editors..etc

- the book is a pretty blue color, long lasting, and I love the overall look, feel, and size of it.

- Henle sell special clear vinyl covers to fit their books to protect them

Hope this helps

[Waldszenen]

For Beethoven (or any composer actually) I've always gone for Henle - most reliable scores around, nothing to argue about in terms of fingerings, phrase marks etc.


If you really insist on something else, then please don't buy Dover or Schirmer. They're horrid (in my experience). Wiener Urtext is a reliable one.

[faulty_damper]

- no editing, only original composer markings, allowing you to use appropriate fingers for yourself

There IS editing.  Don't let "Urtext" fool you.  ALL "Urtext" requires some editing.  Henle is no different and has actually published "Urtext" volumes of works that contain nonsense due to careless and sometimes intellectually mindless editing (Schumann and Chopin are two examples).

And there are editorial fingerings.  Many of them are unnecessary and sometimes worthless.  They do give you insight to the editor's pianistic ability/technique, however, but that doesn't do the reader much good and can lead the young (as in pianistically) student to follow a direction that may be harmful.

Having said this, I also use Henle for Beethoven's sonatas but think that the editor should learn to play the piano instead of editor because the fingerings  are terrible in certain places.  The fingerings that are good are ones that were obvious to begin with.

[burstroman]

What about the urtext from Konemann Music, Budapest?  I think it's an attractive edition.

[mikey6]

What about the urtext from Konemann Music, Budapest?  I think it's an attractive edition.

OOP unfortunately - can't believe that company went broke!

[faulty_damper]

Yeah, can you believe that?  Dirt cheap prices on music from the well-known to the obscure.  A complete edition of Beethoven's sonatas would be less than $30 with the option of purchasing the hardcover for not much more.

I actually prefer Koenemann to Henle particularly because of better layout/look, no editorial fingerings, better judgement of the editors and the price which usually runs $9.95 or less.

[jam8086]

I have the Henle for both volumes of the Beethoven sonatas, and they are GREAT!  The pedal marks in Henle are the composer's pedal marks.  They don't make sense to us today because the composers played on much different pianos than us.  However, in Beethoven, and most other composers, you can usually tell when you should use the pedal just by using your own musical sense.  Also, the fingerings do seem a little weird sometimes, like they were made for someone with small hands, but they are usually very good.

But even with the problems with fingerings and pedaling, I always find Henle to be the best editor for any piece.

[faulty_damper]

I looked into the different editions of the Sonatas and one thing I have noticed with Henle was that they only include the "standard" references for variant readings.

For example, in Op.111
*1st movement, bar 116 last 16th beat is different from the manuscript but doesn't even mention the manuscript as a variant.
*2nd movement, bar 130, 3rd beat in the bass returning to C major, also different from the manuscript - it omits one note which offsets the tonic while prolonging the dominant one-third extra beat.  It doesn't even list the manuscript as a variant even though the manuscript is the correct reading.

In other words, this sonata looks exactly as it appeared in original editions with the original editors "corrections" and not an "urtext" edition as claimed by Henle.

Audacious?  Or just perpetuating the myth of its Urtext supremacy by choosing one reference and listing no other?