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Is Fur Elise unabashedly erotic? (Read 6007 times)

Offline ada

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Re: Is Fur Elise unabashedly erotic?
«Reply #50 on: September 25, 2006, 12:22:42 PM »


Perhaps Elise was a little girl and Beethoven wrote this piece for her on a special occasion, perhaps her birthday.


eewwwwwwwwwwww

creepy
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Offline leucippus

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Re: Is Fur Elise unabashedly erotic?
«Reply #51 on: September 25, 2006, 01:37:11 PM »
eewwwwwwwwwwww

creepy

Why would that be creepy?

What's wrong with the idea of a composer writing a fun little piece of music for his young daughter or niece or whatever?  There's nothing creepy about that at all. 

People often do playful things with their kids.

It would only be creepy if you already have a preconceived notion that there's something inherently sexual about the music.  But like someone else said earlier, there's nothing inherently sexual about music.  It's all in the mind of the person who's listening to it.

Offline ada

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Re: Is Fur Elise unabashedly erotic?
«Reply #52 on: September 25, 2006, 08:15:16 PM »
Oh maybe that's unfair, but I still think Twinkle Twinkle Little Star is fine for a little girl. Fur Elise, possibly creepy.

Just like what Jonbenet Ramsay's parents did to her was creepy. But plenty of people thought it was perfectly ok.

Bach almost persuades me to be a Christian.
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Offline gonzalo

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Re: Is Fur Elise unabashedly erotic?
«Reply #53 on: September 25, 2006, 09:29:02 PM »
I thought Fur Elise was written as an Albumleaf. And:

"Fur Elise (WoO59) was sketched in 1808, and completed either in 1809 or 1810. It was presented to “Elise” (Actually Therese Malfatti) on the 27 April 1810."

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Offline leucippus

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Re: Is Fur Elise unabashedly erotic?
«Reply #54 on: September 25, 2006, 10:09:15 PM »
Oh maybe that's unfair, but I still think Twinkle Twinkle Little Star is fine for a little girl. Fur Elise, possibly creepy.

Just like what Jonbenet Ramsay's parents did to her was creepy. But plenty of people thought it was perfectly ok.

Well, maybe he didn't expect her to play it.  Maybe he just wrote it for her and then played it for her.  Kind of like a "gift" tribute or whatever.

I don't know.  The reason it kind of strikes me that way is because of the quick little interludes of craziness.  I could just see the little girl laughing when Beethoven plays "seriously" for a while, and then goes off on crazy tangents, then settles back down to serious playing again.

That's what people often do with little kids.  They act normal, and then make silly faces or something to make the kid giggle.  I could just see Beethoven making silly faces to the kid when he plays the crazier parts of Für Elise.

I apologize if that image destroys anyone's romantic notions of Für Elise  ;D

It's just a thought.  I have no clue what Beethoven had in mind when he wrote it.

Offline gonzalo

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Re: Is Fur Elise unabashedly erotic?
«Reply #55 on: September 26, 2006, 01:03:37 AM »
Well, maybe he didn't expect her to play it.  Maybe he just wrote it for her and then played it for her.  Kind of like a "gift" tribute or whatever.

I don't know.  The reason it kind of strikes me that way is because of the quick little interludes of craziness.  I could just see the little girl laughing when Beethoven plays "seriously" for a while, and then goes off on crazy tangents, then settles back down to serious playing again.

That's what people often do with little kids.  They act normal, and then make silly faces or something to make the kid giggle.  I could just see Beethoven making silly faces to the kid when he plays the crazier parts of Für Elise.

I apologize if that image destroys anyone's romantic notions of Für Elise  ;D

It's just a thought.  I have no clue what Beethoven had in mind when he wrote it.


By Bernhard:

Fur Elise was composed for one of Beethoven’s students, Therese Malfatti.

She was the daughter of Beethoven’s doctor (Beethoven had a string of medical specialists looking at his ear problem over the years. Malfatti was one of the last ones).

When he started teaching her he was over 40, she was 17. It did not prevent him falling heads over heels in love with her (he was always doing this). He allegedly composed Fur Elise at her request – Therese not being a particularly accomplished pianist, he made the piece as simple as possible.

Apparently Beethoven believed for a while that his feelings were reciprocated, but it turned out that nothing of the sort had ever crossed  Therese’s mind.  In fact she married a Baron Drosdick soon afterwards. 

That’s when Beethoven added the second part (so that she – and Richard Clayderman - could not play it).

It has no opus number because it was never published in his life time. In fact, in all probability it was never intended for publication.

It is called Fur Elise instead of Fur Therese on account of Beethoven's terrible handwriting.

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Offline leucippus

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Re: Is Fur Elise unabashedly erotic?
«Reply #56 on: September 26, 2006, 02:25:33 AM »
That’s when Beethoven added the second part (so that she – and Richard Clayderman - could not play it).

Ok, that makes sense.  Like I said, I was simply giving my "impression" of what might have been behind the piece.

This story is quite a bit different, but still gives an explanation of how the "crazy parts" got in there.  They were an after-thought tossed in later for the purpose of making it difficult to play.

At least my impression was correct about the "crazy parts" not fitting into the piece naturally.

Now that I know the history of the piece (assuming this is true and not just a rumor) I'm half inclined to actually work on it from a composers point of view.  Toss out the crazy parts and try to bring the whole thing back into a nice romantic piece as it was originally intended to be.  I really don't care what other people might think of the finished piece.  I only play for my own enjoyment or for very close friends anyway.   Most of them probably wouldn't even notice the difference.