What I learned during practice today :

[pianoplayjl]

Today I learnt how to play the F sharp minor scale perfectly. How good is that!? Not perfectly, as in really fast, clean and blow you off your speed by the sheer beauty of the scale, but as in play at moderate speed and note for note, fingering perfect, no overlapping and no mistakes whatsover. That is my definition of perfect.
I also learnt, for me, the playing of thirds and sixths is really almost impossible without doing hands seperate a few times. Baby talk for you guys but not for me.

JL

[ajspiano]

Today I learnt how to play the F sharp minor scale perfectly. How good is that!?

Whether or not this had anything to do with mentally grouping the notes, I was thrilled to read this. Congrats 

[pianoplayjl]

Thx, Aj. Your tips probably helped me in the process of perfecting the scale. Veyr problematic if you hadn't posted the tip.

JL

[indespair]

What I learned from everyday practice is that learning to play is a very gradual process and improvements are so subtle that you don't get to notice it until you look back at what you could a few weeks ago and then turn to what you can do now. It's much like evolution, you never notice the subtle changes until they build upon each other to cause a considerable effect. It is a process of accumulation. Then again, of course I am a beginner with no formal training from teachers; the way things seem to me may not be anything like what they might seem to the seasoned pianist. It is not particularly useful, just an observation which sometimes helps me deal with frustration.

[pianoplayjl]

I think I learnt how to play the very fast left hand demi semi quavers in Beethoven's soanta op 10 no 2 1st movt. It some how invovles some wrist action and hand rotation. My hands had to be tense while doing that part though.

JL

[m1469]

I've thought about this, since I teach both piano and voice, and personally find the crossover invaluable.  I've thought about having the ideals of each being compulsory for the other, and actually acting lessons/classes, as well.  Those ideals for my students are either let go of or completely on the back burner until years from now.  I guess I can start with myself!

Here is another related incident.  Since I've picked up the violin this past Fall (well, still summer) and have been teaching it ( ), it's very much impacted my understanding of music and of the piano, as well, and as I learn more about it, it continues to do so.  I'm reaching a point where I think it's perhaps important for growth in general to have some working understanding of a stringed instrument, especially a fretless one (since this requires an awareness of hand/position shapes and their related sounds).  Guitar (yes, I have a private, beginning guitar student, as well  , who splits her lesson between that and piano) has similar shapes but it's easy to concentrate more on the frets than on the shape of the hand.  I wonder if having a more working knowledge of a wind instrument would impact my overall understanding of playing more or in a similar way to singing?  Or differently?  Even though both are dependent on breath and that's an interesting aspect of carrying over singing with piano, I don't know that the understanding between a wind instrument and singing are quite synonymous (though I'm sure quite related!).

[m1469]

meh.  Good intentions but I feel like I'm staring straight at a wall ... I think it's a mental block because I keep finding myself thinking about particular things and it feels like I'm trudging through mud.  *tries to muster but wants to sleep*  I don't think sleeping will make it go away  :-.

[timothy42b]

  I wonder if having a more working knowledge of a wind instrument would impact my overall understanding of playing more or in a similar way to singing?  Or differently?  Even though both are dependent on breath and that's an interesting aspect of carrying over singing with piano, I don't know that the understanding between a wind instrument and singing are quite synonymous (though I'm sure quite related!).

If you're interested in this approach, I'd recommend Arnold Jacob's Song and Wind.  He was a tuba player, played with Chicago Symphony for 44 years, but had just as great a reputation as a master teacher on many instruments.  I don't know much about his teaching, I think that like most teachers the students become more dogmatic than the teacher, but as I understand it he tried to make playing as natural as singing could be.  He has a reputation as an "inner game" type but I've seen some youtube videos where he addresses mechanics as well. 

Here's a link: https://windsongpress.x-shops.com/store/home.php?cat=250

[birba]

What did I learn in practising today?  that it hurts like hell to play with a cut thumb...

[m1469]

If you're interested in this approach, I'd recommend Arnold Jacob's Song and Wind.  He was a tuba player, played with Chicago Symphony for 44 years, but had just as great a reputation as a master teacher on many instruments.  I don't know much about his teaching, I think that like most teachers the students become more dogmatic than the teacher, but as I understand it he tried to make playing as natural as singing could be.  He has a reputation as an "inner game" type but I've seen some youtube videos where he addresses mechanics as well.  

Here's a link: https://windsongpress.x-shops.com/store/home.php?cat=250

Thanks for pointing him out to me, and for the link.


What I am learning today is that it's time to take it all up a notch ... *breathes deeply* ... but, I've also been practicing super hard today and have been very focused (for the last week) and I am genuinely tired and sleepy  .

[pianoplayjl]

Or rather, what I learnt a few days ago. To pianists this is kindergarten stuff but I discovered that I play trills much better when I sit further away from the piano.

JL

[hastur]

Does everybody have those?  

Perhaps not quite to the same extent! But I have been noticing an eerily similar pattern in my own behaviour.

So I watched some youtube videos about a week ago that gaves me a couple good things to keep in mind while playing;

• Play with relaxed hands, don't tense up and force your fingers into shapes. Instead let your fingers find the keys as they make contact with the instrument.
• "Always" try to play the left hand softer than the right hand to bring out the melody.

This is pretty elementary stuff, really. But the videos helped me solidify these two concepts that I've only been vaguely aware of in the back of my head for a while. So what was my next course of action? Practice, of course. I re-visited some of my older pieces, and they really blossomed with the advice after a few good hours of figuring out how to best implement them. I still tense up when there's a lot of octave play and similar, but I'm aware of it's presence and working to get rid of it, so I'm pretty pleased.

But then I rummaged through my sheet music and picked up my still, so far, biggest project to date; The second movement of Beethoven's Pathétique. The specific problem I ran into was that, well, some of the "left hand" is played in, well, the right hand. And I'm finding it extremely difficult to play some fingers softer than other's in a chord. I've tried it before in playing Yann Tiersen's La Valse d'Amélie, but not to much success.

This is where having a teacher again would be pretty great. Does any of you have any suggestions on things to have in mind while playing, to make it easier to accomplish this?

[brogers70]

I learned two things today. First, while playing the Ab Prelude from WTC 1 it really sunk in that just the tiniest microsecond break at the end of phrases really takes away the hurried, stressed feeling of streams of fast 16th notes. That made it much more fun to play. Similarly, I think I've figured out how to handle keeping a Bach "walking bass" completely steady, while taking the same sort of microsecond pauses for breath in the right hand that cure the "hurry, hurry" quality. This was in the Allemande from the First Partita.

Second, it's starting to sink in that there's no way to handle the languid polyrhythms in Chopin Nocturnes by mathematicizing them. You just need to keep the LH rhythm, usually triplets, constant, and let the right hand operate autonomously, just making sure the two hands meet up gently on the downbeats. Easier said than done for a stiff like myself, but I felt like I was making progress.

[mnmleung]

I played for my 6th ever (90 mins) ballet class today (always the same class: RAD Advanced 2 boys and girls).  I usually accompany singers (and I am married to a singer also).

When rehearsing with singers, sometimes it is about learning notes and sorting out difficulties, and often I would be in practice / rehearse mode as well.  I might simplify the written music ...

At a dance class, regardless of the level of the dancers, the pianist would be performing rather than practising / rehearsing.  And it has taken me 6 weeks to realise ...  Also singers would complain that I am often a bit loud; dancers would want to make sure they hear the music clearly.  Quite different worlds !

[timothy42b]

Also singers would complain that I am often a bit loud; dancers would want to make sure they hear the music clearly.  Quite different worlds !

Singers want you to follow them as they speed up and slow down.

Dancers would usually prefer you kept a steady beat and eschewed rubato. 

Neither one usually cares if you play all the notes the composer wanted as long as the effect is there. 

[m1469]

Aah!  Something is a little bit tickly for a few days (and it gets more) in the very back of my noggin ... and sometimes it's a little bit on top of my noggin and almost in the front ... sometimes it's like an umbrella shape ... but, it's just slightly right there ... related to beats, pulse, note-groupings, technique, and music as a language (creating words, sentences, etc.).  hmmm ...

*gets receptive*

[m1469]

musical organization ...

every note having a place and purpose ...

transferable shapes and patterns ...

[m1469]

direction ....

Fluid motion ...

One, fluid motion throughout an entire piece ....

[m1469]

Every part within a group of notes serving a certain purpose, that is either only on or off the square of the beat or part of the beat ...

Fluency in music ...

needing to have the language of note-groupings within one's mind and body ...

[m1469]

Ok, knowing how every note fits into a group.

Knowing how every group fits into a phrase.

Knowing how every phrase fits into a section.

Knowing how every sections fits into a movement.

Knowing how every movement fits into a piece.

Knowing how every piece fits into the literature.

Knowing how the literature fits into the world.

Knowing how the world fits into the universe.

Knowing how the universe fits into life.

Knowing how life fits into ...

[j_menz]

Ok, knowing how every note fits into a group.

Knowing how every group fits into a phrase.

Knowing how every phrase fits into a section.

Knowing how every sections fits into a movement.

Knowing how every movement fits into a piece.

Knowing how every piece fits into the literature.

Knowing how the literature fits into the world.

Knowing how the world fits into the universe.

Knowing how the universe fits into life.

Knowing how life fits into ...

That must have been one heck of a practice session!

[m1469]

That must have been one heck of a practice session!

haha ... yes, I could see how it would appear like that!  Just to be clear, though, it was more a principle that became more clear to me, not that I had the epiphany of the precise content of what those all are! - but, that's music ...

knowing how life fits into Music and there is nothing more than that  

[db05]

Learned that I CAN practice piano. Even play to some extent (not performance level).

I thought the other day was a fluke. Guess not.

[nyiregyhazi]

Ok, knowing how every note fits into a group.

Knowing how every group fits into a phrase.

Knowing how every phrase fits into a section.

Knowing how every sections fits into a movement.

Knowing how every movement fits into a piece.

Knowing how every piece fits into the literature.

Knowing how the literature fits into the world.

Knowing how the world fits into the universe.

Knowing how the universe fits into life.

Knowing how life fits into ...

Very profound sounding, but it's not terribly logical. Life surely fits into the universe, rather than vice versa (other than in the same sense that notes, phrases etc ALL fit into life)? I'm all for putting things into the context of bigger segments, but it's no longer meaningful once you go beyond the literature. Putting something well-known into a more poetic language does not make for a true insight. It just makes for a more poetic way of phrasing it- hence distracting from real issues that we could be considering with true productivity.

[m1469]

Very profound sounding, but it's not terribly logical. Life surely fits into the universe, rather than vice versa (other than in the same sense that notes, phrases etc ALL fit into life)? I'm all for putting things into the context of bigger segments, but it's no longer meaningful once you go beyond the literature. Putting something well-known into a more poetic language does not make for a true insight. It just makes for a more poetic way of phrasing it- hence distracting from real issues that we could be considering with true productivity.

I believe that Life is synonymous with Music and that both are ultimately something that we evolve to eternally understand.  The Music is the poetry, and ultimately I think that's the purpose.  If that is distracting that's not my intention, but I accept that I will express myself in ways that not everybody will agree with nor necessarily understand, just as the same is true for anybody else.  Anything I say or believe can be picked apart, so I just say, that's what I believe and I'm not necessarily trying to convince anybody of believing it themselves.  That doesn't mean that people can't come to a mutual understanding if the desire to do so is present, but the desire to do so is pretty important.

Anyway, it reminds me of something that "came to me" shortly after I posted what you quoted and had been thinking about that.  Along the lines of the saying "One man's trash is another man's treasure" it goes:  One person's abstract is another person's concrete and one person's concrete is another person's abstract.  

I'm not aiming to prove anybody wrong nor myself right, I'm just expressing myself and don't currently have the desire to engage in arguing for the sake of arguing over whether an idea is one person's concrete and another person's abstract.

[ajspiano]

Very profound sounding, but it's not terribly logical.

Not that I'm suggesting m1469 necessarily falls in this category - but not all people are at all logical, and as such, logic has NO effect on them - poetic emotionally driven statements on the other hand make them pay a lot of attention.

[m1469]

Not that I'm suggesting m1469 necessarily falls in this category - but not all people are at all logical, and as such, logic has NO effect on them - poetic emotionally driven statements on the other hand make them pay a lot of attention.

While I agree that your statement is probably true, I don't consider poetry and logic as necessarily mutually exclusive.  And, just because it seems pertinent, I also don't think that emotion and spirituality are necessarily synonymous (and in many cases they are not at all).  I also don't consider spirituality and logic mutually exclusive, nor is my statement above necessarily meant to be emotional, spiritual, or poetic ... maybe to me it's just logical  .

[j_menz]

Methinks nyiregyhazi is a wannabe Vulcan. 

[ajspiano]

While I agree that your statement is probably true, I don't consider poetry and logic as necessarily mutually exclusive.  And, just because it seems pertinent, I also don't think that emotion and spirituality are necessarily synonymous (and in many cases they are not at all).  I also don't consider spirituality and logic mutually exclusive, nor is my statement above necessarily meant to be emotional, spiritual, or poetic ... maybe to me it's just logical  .

I'd be inclined to say that spirituality, for those that favour it, is logical. And thus logic and spirituality co exist almost as one.

For me personally, spirituality is illogical, and so I have none. There are others that clearly do not share my perspective, and others still that are somewhere in the middle..   religious doctors for example I find somewhat confounding, but are a clear example of my kind of logic coexisting with something I find completely illogical.

[m1469]

I'd be inclined to say that spirituality, for those that favour it, is logical. And thus logic and spirituality co exist almost as one.

For me personally, spirituality is illogical, and so I have none. There are others that clearly do not share my perspective, and others still that are somewhere in the middle..   religious doctors for example I find somewhat confounding, but are a clear example of my kind of logic coexisting with something I find completely illogical.

I am also aware that there are certain words that when I say them, they trigger a misunderstanding that I don't feel I know how to stop, necessarily, since sometimes there is no better word for it.  For example, the word spirituality triggers the idea of human religion and religious doctrines, which I like less than what is considered real science.  All I can hope is that people have an open mind. 

[ajspiano]

While I may have presented the idea of a religious person with an accompanying logical mindset. That is not what I mean by the word spirituality in general. - Actually, I'm not really sure what I mean by spirituality, because I don't think I experience it at all.

[m1469]

Well, without trying to offend, my guess is that most people in fact do experience it in some way but either call it something(s) else or don't have a name for it.  Spirituality is a name I have just come to accept for myself and also use to define my perception of (aspects of) the world.

[ajspiano]

Well, without trying to offend, my guess is that most people in fact do experience it in some way but either call it something(s) else or don't have a name for it.  Spirituality is a name I have just come to accept for myself and also use to define my perception of (aspects of) the world.

This seems likely - as since i'm logical, it is logical for me to assume that I have at least a slightly similar experience of self to all other humans, regardless of how I choose to think of it or express it.

EDIT: - you would have a really hard time trying to successfully offend me, I'm a pretty calm sailor.

[m1469]

This seems likely - as since i'm logical, it is logical for me to assume that I have at least a slightly similar experience of self to all other humans, regardless of how I choose to think of it or express it.

Generally I agree with this and when I was about 14 had a kind of definite realization about each person in that regard, but it's hard to explain (and I don't think of it in exactly the same way now) ... but, it's as though I suddenly realized that we were all the same "shape" on the inside (but, I don't mean materially  ) ... there was just some realization about the inside of each of us being something of the same and tangible.  Yet, I am sometimes surprised to find out how differently somebody seems to think of the world or how differently they express themselves ... sometimes people seem to let a particular characteristic take over completely and shape their entire realities around that (like "hate") ... and based on how they outwardly act, they appear to have a completely different inner landscape (like somebody who takes child slaves and is horrible to other people) ... but, probably, there is something about that person's inner life that I can somehow empathize with and even somehow understand (and I would have in my past absolutely bent over backwards to try to understand them and somehow know that person on the inside).

EDIT: - you would have a really hard time trying to successfully offend me, I'm a pretty calm sailor.

 

[candlelightpiano]

I learned that it hurts to practice with a bad thumb!

[timothy42b]

I learned that it hurts to practice with a bad thumb!

You have nine other fingers, none of which are busy 100% of the time, so what's the big deal? 

[nyiregyhazi]

Not that I'm suggesting m1469 necessarily falls in this category - but not all people are at all logical, and as such, logic has NO effect on them - poetic emotionally driven statements on the other hand make them pay a lot of attention.

I see your point- but what is learned in the long run? A state of feeling inspired lasts for a certain amount of time, but it does little towards long-term improvements. It's like a quick hit- not something keeps a musician growing over a period of time. I don't personally think these things are worthy of dwelling on. 1001 things in life can create a state of inspiration- without any need to create aphorisms with little real meaning. There's so much more to be gained from analytical thinking that has a tangible meaning. This kind of thing is what gives more generic feelings of inspiration the chance to be channeled into significant results (rather than to peter out into nothingness, once the feeling dries up).

Personally, if I want to be inspired by a poetic expression, I'd rather read a poem- rather than something that seems to say something specific about music but conveys very little. I prefer analysis to be meaningful and straight to the point and to take my inspiration from elsewhere.

[m1469]

I see your point- but what is learned in the long run? A state of feeling inspired lasts for a certain amount of time, but it does little towards long-term improvements. It's like a quick hit- not something keeps a musician growing over a period of time. I don't personally think these things are worthy of dwelling on. 1001 things in life can create a state of inspiration- without any need to create aphorisms with little real meaning. There's so much more to be gained from analytical thinking that has a tangible meaning. This kind of thing is what gives more generic feelings of inspiration the chance to be channeled into significant results (rather than to peter out into nothingness, once the feeling dries up).

Personally, if I want to be inspired by a poetic expression, I'd rather read a poem- rather than something that seems to say something specific about music but conveys very little. I prefer analysis to be meaningful and straight to the point and to take my inspiration from elsewhere.

Your Royal Highness, My deepest regrets that my sincere expression could not afford the utmost satisfaction to your Highness.  I will take the single pleasure of your obvious delight in having felt justified in posting what I have quoted above, and that your Highness has perhaps taken a trifle satisfaction in having the opportunity to deem somebody else as not up to your Highness' standards and tastes.

*bows deeply*

[pianowolfi]

Ok, knowing how every note fits into a group.

Knowing how every group fits into a phrase.

Knowing how every phrase fits into a section.

Knowing how every sections fits into a movement.

Knowing how every movement fits into a piece.

Knowing how every piece fits into the literature.

Knowing how the literature fits into the world.

Knowing how the world fits into the universe.

Knowing how the universe fits into life.

Knowing how life fits into ...

I love this so much, soo much!!!

[db05]

Ok, knowing how every note fits into a group.

Knowing how every group fits into a phrase.

Knowing how every phrase fits into a section.

Knowing how every sections fits into a movement.

Knowing how every movement fits into a piece.

Knowing how every piece fits into the literature.

Knowing how the literature fits into the world.

Knowing how the world fits into the universe.

Knowing how the universe fits into life.

Knowing how life fits into ...

I guess this is what we all set out to experience... but now I'm scared of the responsibility that comes with knowing too much. How would you know that you're not going too far and stepping on God's territory?

To not go too far off-topic and kinda answer the question of the post, I avoided practice for a day in observance of a "mental fast". There's too many notes, musical and otherwise in my head lately... I haven't achieved clarity yet, but getting there. Maybe I should get away from the computer for a few days, maybe... *sighs*

[nyiregyhazi]

Your Royal Highness, My deepest regrets that my sincere expression could not afford the utmost satisfaction to your Highness.  I will take the single pleasure of your obvious delight in having felt justified in posting what I have quoted above, and that your Highness has perhaps taken a trifle satisfaction in having the opportunity to deem somebody else as not up to your Highness' standards and tastes.

*bows deeply*

I'm all for some poetic language, but is this something you "learned during practice today"? It strikes me more as being a poetic rephrasing of what you already knew, constructed outside of practice.

[littletune]

Ok, knowing how every note fits into a group.

Knowing how every group fits into a phrase.

Knowing how every phrase fits into a section.

Knowing how every sections fits into a movement.

Knowing how every movement fits into a piece.

Knowing how every piece fits into the literature.

Knowing how the literature fits into the world.

Knowing how the world fits into the universe.

Knowing how the universe fits into life.

Knowing how life fits into ...

Yes I love this too!!   

Your Royal Highness, My deepest regrets that my sincere expression could not afford the utmost satisfaction to your Highness.  I will take the single pleasure of your obvious delight in having felt justified in posting what I have quoted above, and that your Highness has perhaps taken a trifle satisfaction in having the opportunity to deem somebody else as not up to your Highness' standards and tastes.

*bows deeply*

     you're cool m1469! 

[m1469]

I guess this is what we all set out to experience... but now I'm scared of the responsibility that comes with knowing too much. How would you know that you're not going too far and stepping on God's territory?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  What do you think of as "responsibility" and "knowing too much" and "God's territory"?


Thanks Wolfi, Nyrie, and Littletune, that's nice


Here is a "grand" realization of today (just seconds ago) in a succinct manner, though related to ideas I've been chewing on regarding rhythm:  Rhythm has its own sound!  haha ... in music it's pretty much perceived of as tied to tones and silences (for now including unpitched percussion), but it has its kind of own identity despite the sounds it's tied to ... it's got its own "structure" regardless of tone.

[nyiregyhazi]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  What do you think of as "responsibility" and "knowing too much" and "God's territory"?


Thanks Wolfi, Nyrie, and Littletune, that's nice


Here is a "grand" realization of today (just seconds ago) in a succinct manner, though related to ideas I've been chewing on regarding rhythm:  Rhythm has its own sound!  haha ... in music it's pretty much perceived of as tied to tones and silences (for now including unpitched percussion), but it has its kind of own identity despite the sounds it's tied to ... it's got its own "structure" regardless of tone.

I definitely can't agree on that- except to say that it CAN be true, but frequently isn't. There's no way the rhythmic execution of an ascending minor ninth (within a melody) can possibly be separated from the fact it's a minor ninth. In virtually any conceivable example it could not possibly be timed as casually and literally as if it were an adjacent note. Rhythm and melodic context are absolutely inseparable- unless a performer plays rhythms metrically and without the faintest concept of phrase and line.

In something like the opening motif of Beethoven's fifth I could see what you mean. However, I think these are way more of an exception than a rule, if anything.

[m1469]

Then what is the point of 4/4 vs. 2/2 with quarter note subdivisions?  Or 6/8 vs. 2/4 in triplet subdivisions?

[nyiregyhazi]

Then what is the point of 4/4 vs. 2/2 with quarter note subdivisions?  Or 6/8 vs. 2/4 in triplet subdivisions?

? Could you clarify upon what logic you feel that my point would rule out the point of such things? The fact that melodic and phrase issues most certainly do have an effect on rhythmic execution is supposed to imply that there could be no difference between equivalent time signatures? I don't understand your logic at all. That's a totally separate rhythmic issue and the fact that intervals have a bearing on rhythmic execution (meaning that rhythm does not stand independently of pitch issues) has no bearing on it.

If you separate a rhythm from the context of its tones, it will not be the same exact rhythm- in the overwhelming majority of cases. It could only be so if metre were absolutely strict. All rhythm has some slight departures from literal metre- which are strongly tied in to pitch issues.

[spb_jcb]

Thanks for this idea and I will follow along and order the book you mentioned. Stephen

[m1469]

? Could you clarify upon what logic you feel that my point would rule out the point of such things? The fact that melodic and phrase issues most certainly do have an effect on rhythmic execution is supposed to imply that there could be no difference between equivalent time signatures? I don't understand your logic at all. That's a totally separate rhythmic issue and the fact that intervals have a bearing on rhythmic execution (meaning that rhythm does not stand independently of pitch issues) has no bearing on it.

If you separate a rhythm from the context of its tones, it will not be the same exact rhythm- in the overwhelming majority of cases. It could only be so if metre were absolutely strict. All rhythm has some slight departures from literal metre- which are strongly tied in to pitch issues.

Oh Nyire ... first of all, you're going to have to ask WAY nicer than that if you would like me to take your questions seriously enough to answer them.  Second of all, if you are asking me to do your homework for you, there's no deal   .  Now, if we are brinking on a discussion with mutual respect and a sincere desire to understand music and one another better, count me in  .

[db05]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  What do you think of as "responsibility" and "knowing too much" and "God's territory"?

It is a recognition of my own mental limits. Though I doubt it applies to you, being in another level entirely. And I think I understand where nyire is coming from. What you say goes beyond the usual and more obvious goals of piano practice. Or even music itself.

They say "with great power comes great responsibility". And "knowledge is power". If you realize something, you have to apply it. "Enlightenment" is more than theory, it is action... but to know what the universe fits into, what life fits into, how is that actionable...?

That is where I sense conflict, we want to understand the universe (or this world, or just this lifetime) up to a point, where we can harmonize with it. And the learn the how-to of harmonizing. But to seek to learn what is beyond the universe, I wonder how that can be practiced/ applied... Can you give an example of application in everyday life?

(Taking things so seriously, so deeply and broadly had only caused me nightmares lately. It has a lot to do with the dream I posted in the Tell Me Your Dreams thread. It seems someone out there does not approve of me... thinking of music so much...  Perhaps God is telling me that I'm only human, and such knowledge/ skill is the forbidden fruit...

Miss m1469: You don't have to answer my questions as I am afraid of the answer. I have too much respect for people like you to formally ask.)

[m1469]

It is a recognition of my own mental limits.

To be frank, this does not answer my questions, which were not accusatory, btw, but rather a way to establish what we are actually conversing over so as to better communicate.  Nyire didn't answer my questions, either, but instead tried to put me "in the hot seat" by asking more.  So far, that is not practical or logical for me.

For now I will say that's fine because if it's not you or Nyire who are truly interested, it will be a message in a bottle.   I think the most important part about your question regarding practicality -which I agree with, btw- is ... practical for whom, exactly?  You, or me?  Or in general?  I will start by saying that to a large degree we have to find our own practicality daily.  How can I make it practical for you?  Probably I would ask you to do your scales  .  We'd work things out one step at a time.  That's what makes things practical; step by step.

Or, are we talking practical for me?  Do people think that I may give some kind of statement that they consider impractical, illogical, broad ... and that this means I'm not thinking critically and studiously about my daily work?  My mind boggles to think to try to explain how I make these things practical to my daily life.  At the same time, I consider that very question quite often.  Ah gawd, where to start and where to end.  I should be asleep right now.

All I can say right now (sorry, super tired), is that I have a concept of how to organize every note, and that I have been searching for that.  For me to gain a concept of a principle gives me a vision to aim for, a standard to work with, and a tangible application.  But, it takes very much time and effort.  It is an actual, honest labor.  Sometimes I have woken for months in a row at 3 am in search of this, and working at the piano ... I have very little social life and I've had to fight very, very hard for every single morsel of piano life that I have, and have faced a willingness to literally lose everything from my life so as to continue my studies with my teachers ... there's loads more ... but I'll leave it there and say, if a person can come to me with a similar story, THEN feel free to ask me about my "logic" since they are very connected (do you see the logic in waking at 3 am for months in a row?  For being willing to foreclose a house?  Divorce a spouse?  Lose family and friends?  Even sell a most precious piano, all in order to keep studying?), at that point ask me why I find practicality in the things I write here and how that relates to a music and single notes.

I hope I don't sound rude and I can feel that I am probably too tired to be writing.  The disclaimer needs to be that I don't claim to have all the answers ... still lots to learn.