What I learned during practice today :

[opus10no2]

Quite.

[forzaitalia250]

Today (well yesterday now cause it's early in the morning) I reaffirmed my belief that I dislike playing on a cheap keyboard  , but I've been able to use it to achieve better accuracy while not worrying about the dynamics being a bit off. (I'm on vacation currently and this is the only piano I have available)

I had to make due with 2+ missing octaves, but I've managed to make the first cadenza in Liebestraume more legato, which I hadn't been doing well. Then I attempted to play Chopin's 1st Ballade, but that was a complete and utter disaster on this keyboard.

Then I just did some jazz improv because I really couldn't do much else with my current classical pieces.

[m1469]

I have realized that I need to be *a lot* more specific than I have thought, regarding several aspects of playing.  But, this in particular has to do with where and how I 'aim' at the instrument while playing.

Prior to this, I have kind of generally aimed for keys, more or less.  I realize now, though, that an individual key is actually quite a large space altogether, just in itself.  I have found it to be beneficial to aim for a specific spot on the individual key.  Nope, it's not rocket science and I suspect it is actually quite elementary to many people here ... but, I just didn't realize how important it is until now.  :-

I am happy and grateful for this realization as it has rather dramatically changed some things for me -- for the better.

[shingo]

Away from the piano I was thinking about my progress and feeling guilty as I was to miss my practice for the day, when I realised my constant striving for the next piece completion or the next advancement in playing was impeding on my overall satisfaction from playing.

Just using general figures, 90% of the time is spent playing and practicing pieces and only 10% of the time do I feel great after just completeing something ar acheiving a goal. I need to enjoy the course of the piece coming together and working on it as much as the reward afterwards otherwise I am losing out on 90% of the fun. It is like the journey should be enjoyed just as much as the outcome, which I sometimes forget about and just slog away hoping the piece will be completed faster for the next 10% burst.

In a way I suppose that could be seen as a good thing, eager to comlpete and progress, but progress will be limited by enjoyment (lack of) as a the limiting factor. I think I just need to appreciate the practice more, not cut down practice time, and hopefully this will not only improve my enjoyment for playing but also increase my rate of progress.

Short Version: To increase my Piano progress rate, I must be assatisfied with the practice sessions themselves not just after completing something.

That may make no sense at all, but I think it helped me explain it to myself, when you have to put it into words.

[littleman713]

I learned that some times just sitting and studing the piece you are working on is just as or even more benifitcial as practicing at the piano. 

[guendola]

I often have problems with the same parts of a piece just because I "know" that this part is difficult. Even after 20 years, I still remember these parts and have a tendency to repeat the old mistakes. Recently I started to apply an old bicycle rule to practising these parts and it seems to work: I play a part until I get it right, make a break and enjoy the success. A few minutes later I play it again and whoops, it works! Depending on the difficulty of a part, this has to be repeated for a while. During the break I do the same on another passage, get me a drink or whatever. The point is to get rid of these constant brain alerts when getting closer to a difficult passage.

The bicycle rule goes like this: If you try to ride around an obstacle, look at the path you want to go, not at the obstacle, or you will hit it.

[shingo]

I need to emphasise dynamics much more. Although I probably would play in such a style if I knew I was performing I feel that I must make sure form now on I pay dynamics much more attention. Normally, as I am only playing for myself I can be kind of greedy and scrunch out chords or generally ignore most markings.
     However having recently been to my first Piano concert I was amazed at the playing and at the textures which could be obtained by use of dynamics. Origionally I thought of them as a bit of a pain in regards to conforming to the intended markings. But now I am inspired! I can see their power and full effect, it's worth waiting and prolonging the climax instead of being greedy. A much better form of pleasure can be derived from combining the soft and the loud correctly than indulging in every passage.

[pianowolfi]

shut up m1469 

Hey don't be so rude to her

[m1469]

Today was a very interesting practice day ... perhaps even "epic" on some account.  I learned 1 extremely important (to me) concept about the mechanics of playing as well as a new practice strategy for arpeggios (and then as well, the two of them are related) and the same practice strategy became/arose from a completey new (for me) sound for improvising.  I spent some time with a few other concepts as well. 

One of the most important things that I learned though, was to start a video/audio journal about my practicing for the day.  I have had a difficult time keeping a written journal because often it's been nearly impossible for me to figure out how to put into writing, an entire concept that involves movement and kinesthesia.  I don't know if I will feel the need to journal like that everyday, but today it was very important that I did.

[guendola]

I didn't learn this exactly today, it took a couple of weeks to convince me (while learning a three-part invention by Bach):

When learning a piece, it is very helpful to make up your mind about how you want it to sound. Not generally, but in detail, perhaps even each note - depending on the music. It seems that analysing the music this way, you eliminate many mistakes by eliminating random and you are very familiar with the piece in a short time. Also, it requires you to think about interpretation right away, so there is no need to go over the music again and again to do the fingering, then learn the fingering, then learn the difficult passages, then try to play it with correct expression, then develop your personal expression. Of course you might change your mind here and there but you start with a clear idea that can be shaped while practising. And practising means to practise the parts that don't sound the way you want them only, and put it all together when appropriate.

[pianochick93]

I learnt that my hands are not big enough to play Ravel's Pavane Pour Une Infante Defunte. I also learnt that I cannot play C.P.E Bach's Solfegietto very fast. How do pronounce that and how fast (crotchet = ?) should it be played (a rough idea)

[shingo]

     I feel that I have actually matured in terms of my Piano playing very dramatically over a matter of days! I just had a practice session and suddenly I felt as if my sensitivity to dynamics, tone etc were heightened. I was very also aware of my playing and that I did not want to break into what previously would have been an mf, but instead had graduated the whole spectrum of dynamics under this, or at least very close to. I also have more of an interest in playing much slower tender pieces than I had before, I am not really sure what provoked this (maybe it's listening to all this Bach) but at the moment it seems to be quite a handy progression.
     Also with regards to learning new pieces my aims have been kind of re prioritised. Before I was seeing the obtaining of the notes as the main barrier in getting a piece down. Now however I have the feeling that this part is actually very trivial and the whole manipulation, interpretation and overall performance is the actual point of focus. I can only really relate it to say punching the punching bag, or punching through it, an odd anaolgy but the one I actually thought of when I had the revelation. It's as if previously I was limiting myself and now through this catharsis I have removed a psychological barrier. Anyway we shall see the real effect of this tomorrow when it is put to use.

[mike_lang]

I also learnt that I cannot play C.P.E Bach's Solfegietto very fast.

Good!  Non troppo vivo!

[solitudewithin]

Well for me i finally learned the tremolos at the Pathetique! And Amen to Seymour Fink as with his exercises about rotation i finally learned that! Sometimes i guess you have to beleive it in order to make it!

[m19834]

I love practicing !

[db05]

light action + bad tune > very heavy action + good tune
a cool temperature is essential
drinks and snack, don't forget next time

RELAX, DAMMIT!! 

[momopi]

After working on it, my teacher just said, it's a nocturn -- even when you play the forte, it's not a strong in your face forte, but a legato "light" (not weak) forte.  After that, i tried playing it again, and it started to click.  Touch and movement make a huge difference.   The value of an experience ear to hear and tell you how to "correct" the sound that you are producing is invaluable.  To play a piece well, not only do you have to generate the mood, but also, know how to produce the right sound for the mood. 

More on sound.  So much is based on subtleties.  I was playing another piece, a simple haydn sonata, and she was saying your main theme is fine but in the sub theme needs to be more contrast -- it needs to sound more innocent and child like.  After trying it for a while and listening to her play, I managed to get a more childlike sound.  Now I practice that section sounding, imagining a small girl, in a pink dress, with big eyes and a lollipop (this is true) -- the lengths we musicians go to.

sounds like my teacher too. she played nocturne for me then told me how important "colourings" /"shading" are... (well, our lessons are not in english) hehe... and I'm not even learning nocturne. i'm still intermediate. i guess she just wanted to share it with me so i can apply it to short pieces...

sometimes, she describes images to certain piano pieces like moving clouds, moon, etc... just like you lollipop girl ^_____^

[m19834]

In a world spinning and spinning and spinning and not making any sense, looking down at the keys and placing my hands on them is a comfort that can't be found anywhere else.  I would never wish to replace the simplicity of black and white, patterns of twos and threes, for anything else under the sun.  I would never wish to think in terms of anything besides the tones that come out simply by pushing down with one finger, with one hand, with a fist, with my whole arm.  And, I would never wish to lose the upright fallboard and music rack where I rest my head when I can't seem to keep it up any longer.

There is a beauty in the simplicity.

[m19834]

If you let your standard go down for even a single repetition, it is extremely easy for the standard to keep lowering for everything, until you are fooling yourself into playing like absolute pooh while thinking/hoping you are doing alright.

[ahinton]

In a world spinning and spinning and spinning and not making any sense, looking down at the keys and placing my hands on them is a comfort that can't be found anywhere else.  I would never wish to replace the simplicity of black and white, patterns of twos and threes, for anything else under the sun.  I would never wish to think in terms of anything besides the tones that come out simply by pushing down with one finger, with one hand, with a fist, with my whole arm.  And, I would never wish to lose the upright fallboard and music rack where I rest my head when I can't seem to keep it up any longer.

There is a beauty in the simplicity.

OK - but just try it from where I'm sitting - i.e. at the composition desk which, all too sadly, seems not to afford any such possible luxuries, whether or not one feels that one can "seem to keep it up any longer"...

Best,

Alistair

[m19834]

Okay, here is something strange.  If you force every repetition to be of the highest standard (that you can think of), it might seem more difficult at first than slogging through it, but it soon becomes more simple and easy than slogging through, and the task of the passage becomes the most innocent little nugget that ever existed.  Okay, I don't really know exactly what I mean by those last words.  But, it's tempting to slog through something to try to get out of really working at something, when in fact it seems more difficult for longer that way, when going ahead and expecting the most of yourself everytime you play it (right from the get go), starts to make it actually simple and easy (okay, some passages quicker than others, of course).

OK - but just try it from where I'm sitting - i.e. at the composition desk which,

Whatchya workin' on ? 

[m19834]

When faced with the perception of complete darkness in the form of an abyss, stand at the mouth of it and throw into it a "stone" ... and then listen with complete attention.  "Sing" into it.  Listen.  You will hear the sound bounces back to you, and the truth of it lay in what you need and find upon its return.  It will be your courage, your comfort, your best friend.  You will find the most simple sounds to be of the utmost beauty, then take a step, or some steps.  The fact that the sound bounces back to you is proof that the abyss is not quite what it may seem ... there is something there, and the sound that you get back is an invitation to keep going, despite the darkness.  It will become your light.

I have lots of listening to do still in my life, but Beethoven's 9th is something like this to me.  If nothing else, he was a very brave soul.

[m19834]

While the desire for "perfection" may bring one's quality of playing to a higher level, if the concept of "perfection" is not dynamic, it can also become a vice that holds one back from being as good as they can be. 

[m19834]

The basic formula to increase the rate of learning a piece is that of decreasing the number of repetitions, and as quickly as possible, increasing the portion of music being learned per repetition.

I know, it's pretty obvious.  Of course there are all sorts of things that tie into an individual not needing as many repetitions, but I have made a deal with myself for now that less is more.  My aim is to more or less memorize a passage in 4, and only 4 (different kinds of) repetitions :

1.  Perfect Mental Play through -- physical play through to match mental image
2.  Play again focusing on motions (matching mental practice)
3.  Play from memory, looking at hands (matching mental practice)
4.  Play from memory, looking at blank piece of paper, visualizing notes on page (matching mental practice)

I don't always get it without some kind of repeat of one of those steps, but I am getting closer !  I am not sure though if this will mean I need more days or not.  I don't think so though.

If I practiced something HS today, my goal is to put it together tomorrow within only 4 repetions.  If I split a passage into two today, my goal is to put them together tomorrow.  So on and so forth.  I find that this kind of "less is more" deal with myself helps my lazy side be more active and concentrate better on each repetition.

My future goal is to be able to play through it once in my mind and have it memorized.  After a single mental repetition, be able to play looking at the piano, and be able to write out what I just memorized without looking at the score.

Cheers !

[general disarray]

Hmm, Karli, I like your latest practicing plan.  Sounds focussed and efficient.  I'll give it a whirl myself.

[m19834]

Okay, an ammendment to my post just above.  The basic formula for increasing the rate of learning a piece is better concentration and focus.  That was the idea behind making a deal with myself to do fewer repetitions ... partly because I had kind of a "set" number of repetitions that did for each passage, and it is easy to just go through the motions that way, I realize.

I do see the value in thinking in terms of strictly concentration and focus.

[m19834]

With every passage we practice, the mental image we have of that passage is what we will embody.  If the embodiment of that passage needs to change/improve, then the mental image of that passage needs to be altered first/along with the embodiment.  And, just like we can do that with a passage, we can do that with ourselves as a pianist.  The concept of who we are as a pianist is something that we practice and create a mental image of with every passage we embark on.  If the embodiment of who we are as a pianist needs to change/improve, then the mental image of who we are must be altered to that which we will embody.

[a-sharp]

m1469...

Responding to your original post/thought ~

I have this kind of thing I "struggle" with - almost constantly. I was never aware of it, until that past year +1/2. (I took a long break away from playing ... ) - My first teacher back into playing used to comment on my posture 'n' such. I didn't really process any relative meaning - perhaps aside from simple appearance. (I was like - so what?)

Now - I realize I have tension in weird parts of my body - my feet or leg - usually the same one ... and I will start to lean over/slump when I'm really concentrating on something. I know it affects my playing, impedes my practice in terms of productivity. if I have so much energy subconsciously directed at a weird part of my body, how can I truly be focused and relaxed the way I need to be to play (anything)? When I am able to correct my posture and let go of those tension spots (and all other things are in sync - I'm rested, fed, etc)... everything works much better - in my hands, and musically - and feels more natural.

I'm always striving for that "natural" feeling for each passage...

But - again - the original post - I truly think that when I've practice "well" - I learn something new every time - about myself or how my hands/body functions.

To me, so much of it is "choreography" and "preparation" ... I'll take whatever time necessary to get that into my system ... (practicing a lot of Bach lately, so, you understand the importance of that, LOL!).

Anyway - I enjoy this post...And I'm rambling again (and don't know if I'm making sense. It's Xmas even and I'm super tired).

[shingo]

I have learnt of late that I needed to re-arrange my practice habbits. Having read a lot of Bernhards posts as well as Changs, I constructed a routine where I would practice in lots of small chunks of 10 minutes focusing on a bar at a time or a small passage.

However when this became tedious I didn't want to change it because I felt that I was opting out and instead my hobby became evading my practice whilst reassuring myself that I was still on top of it.

I practice Piano purely for enjoyment with no accademic strains at all, not even grades, so it seemed pointless to continue in this fashion and I have now switched to a more free spirited approach just spending an hour on each piece as I wish, still having an overall aim for the day but not worrying about the process of learning as much.

Afterall when I would sit down to do other forms of enjoyment I would not focus on progress then i.e. must read a page a minute of the book, must only play the video game by pressing the combination of buttons a set number of times etc.

Anyway I will see how this goes.

[m19834]

Committing oneself to piano practice is less about committing oneself to the piano and to music, than it is about committing oneself to living one's life.  The decision to spend focused time everyday in clear thinking, to making something better, to purifying intentions and actions, is a bigger challenge than learning and playing a piece of music.  The fact that a life-practice is developed at all, which sparks a continuous growth in living one's potential, is more important than the particular instruments and tools one uses as part of that practice.  However, the tools and instruments used will serve the life-practice. 

It is just good to know what comes first.

[momopi]

Don't be so harsh on yourself! 

[csharp_minor]

  Down!



Yes 'slow down!' when praticing my teacher said today. As as there is a danger of it become a bad habit! I'm going to print a slow sign and put it near my piano to remind myself .

[shingo]

Yes 'slow down!' when praticing my teacher said today. As as there is a danger of it become a bad habit! I'm going to print a slow sign and put it near my piano to remind myself .

Ha, I am just the same, I have written in on the top of scores to try and remind me. Now I try and tell myself that this is the only time I will hear the piece played this slow and that it may be nice, so I try to enjoy it that way...

[csharp_minor]

I have written in on the top of scores to try and remind me.

I do that too, even my teacher wrote it on one of the pieces!

[m19834]

- Aim for tone, not keys.

- Be more attentive.

- Even silence can be musically shaped.

[m19834]

Hear the distance the hand must travel in jumps.

Listen with my hands/fingers.

[rc]

Not practicing enough these days...  Swamped under work.

But this morning I lied down listening to some string music on the radio and made a challenging little exercise of trying to picture the rhythm of the various parts on an imaginary score.  I couldn't do it in real time, had to think back over what was just played in order to 'put it down'...  I wonder if it's possible to do in real time?  having never heard it before - not knowing what comes next.

[db05]

What I learned yesterday: don't trust Schirmer. Get different editions.

[pianowolfi]

Every practice session gets more and more like a performance, to me...

[go12_3]

What I learned during practice today, was that my fingers would hardly move as I did some Hanon exercises.  I had to think of each finger and tell it to move.  Wow, that was strange for me to experience.  So I slowed down until my  fingers would move and not feel like they are standing still.  Piano playing requires finger movements, but this morning, they did not want to go anywhere!    

best wishes,

go12_3

[pianowolfi]

but this morning, they did not want to go anywhere!    

that happens even to my whole person sometimes 

[m19834]

I have learned that I am a practicing machine.

[pianowolfi]

I have learned that I am a practicing machine.

So, not rather something like Karlimatic? Which is not a machine but a really wonderful person and musician? 

[go12_3]

that happens even to my whole person sometimes 

Another laugh, pianowolfi, are you this humorous most of the time?  I enjoy reading your posts.    

[pianowolfi]

Another laugh, pianowolfi, are you this humorous most of the time?

I wish I were Sometimes it's just sillyness, sometimes it's just a relief from very serious issues, sometimes it's just plain crazyness. But after all, I think I am an observer, even regarding myself.

 I enjoy reading your posts.    

Thank you

[m19834]

So, not rather something like Karlimatic? Which is not a machine but a really wonderful person and musician? 

Okay, maybe I will be Karlimatic .  But, it's seriously kind of strange ... if I pretend that I am a machine, something changes.  Should I be afraid ?  It's like "thinking" with a different part of myself, and somehow it makes things more automatic, and I think there really may be a place for that.  I am pretending like I am a machine, and I am pretending like I am programming myself, and it works  ... *gets nervous*

[pianowolfi]

No need to get nervous. The human brain is capable of many things, even of pretending to be a machine and simulating it, to gather knowledge. There is a kind of cognition named "intuition" which leads us into the inner region of things, like we would actually "become" objects or persons themselves. It's a kind of super-empathetic cognition which requires a lot of inner stability. We need to stay ourselves when we slip into the inner being of persons or objects, otherwise we are in danger to get lost.

[m19834]

No need to get nervous. The human brain is capable of many things, even of pretending to be a machine and simulating it, to gather knowledge. There is a kind of cognition named "intuition" which leads us into the inner region of things, like we would actually "become" objects or persons themselves. It's a kind of super-empathetic cognition which requires a lot of inner stability. We need to stay ourselves when we slip into the inner being of persons or objects, otherwise we are in danger to get lost.

Okay ... hee hee.  Thanks .  Somehow this actually explains parts of the problems of my whole life ... ha ha.

[pianowolfi]

Okay ... hee hee.  Thanks .  Somehow this actually explains parts of the problems of my whole life ... ha ha.

Same here  lol

[m19834]

Every time I sit down with a piece of music, aim to learn something new about it.

Learn something new about the piece with the sole aim of making the overall musical image, and all of its details, more clear and precise.

(treat friends and family the same way).