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Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 3 Arggggggghhhhhh

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Topic: Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 3 Arggggggghhhhhh (Read 11821 times)

netzow

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Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 3 Arggggggghhhhhh

on: October 20, 2006, 04:07:39 AM

In the first line of this piece (this isn't the only place but it's the first one) The right hand plays a tied F. The left hand plays single note followed by a chord and than a rest. This pattern repeats itself several times. My question is: How do you honor the rest while holding the F in the right hand I have tried many things and have yet to find anything that works. Sorry if this is confusing, hopefully some people have the score and can see what I mean. Any suggestions, ideas, hints would be very much appriciated

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kamike

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Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 3 Arggggggghhhhhh

Reply #1 on: October 20, 2006, 04:23:22 AM

I am not sure I understand the question - but the rest is for the left hand only. You have to hold the f in the right.

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hyrst

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Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 3 Arggggggghhhhhh

Reply #2 on: October 20, 2006, 07:47:39 AM

Are you having problems holding the right hand still while you move the left hand jump? The right hand stays still, holding the note through the three bars - a matter of coordination. Is that what you meant?

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netzow

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Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 3 Arggggggghhhhhh

Reply #3 on: October 20, 2006, 12:55:40 PM

The problem is that to hold the F down the requred leangth of beats one has to use the pedal. I've tried holding it not using the pedal it does not stay long enough. (The score says to use pedal over the whole section no releasing). Since the pedal is being held down it end's up with the sound from the LH chord covering up the rest in affect making the chord kind of a half note instead of a quarter note. My question is how do you hold the F for the required number of beats while still having a rest in the LH?How do you not have sound coming from the LH in the beats which are rests? Does this clarify my question any?

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hyrst

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Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 3 Arggggggghhhhhh

Reply #4 on: October 20, 2006, 02:37:23 PM

Yes, that clarifies your question much better.

If you have a piano with a sostenuto pedal in the middle, this solves the problem for you, but most upright pianos do not have a sostenuto pedal.

Just follow the pedal markings - a good firm accent on the F should be enough to keep it going. I would hold the F, after an accent, and pump the damper pedal if there is no sostenuto pedal. This would be my way of managing it, I don't know if it is the right way.

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hyrst

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Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 3 Arggggggghhhhhh

Reply #5 on: October 20, 2006, 08:39:18 PM

HI
I played through the Nocturne just now to see what you were talking about. It is OK to hold the damper pedal throughout those marked bars. Perhaps a half pedal might be less fuzzy, but it works musically.

It doesn't have the same effect on the left hand as if you were playing a minin, if you have the voicing correct. The second beat on the left hand should be softer and your hand raised off fairly quickly (there is a waltz feel to this). If you do this, the pedal does keep an echo going but it doesn't sound like you are holding the left hand on the third beat.

Try it - there is a different sound when you hold the left hand and when you raise it gently and quickly, even with the pedal. There is supposed to be an echo through these bars, not a clean detached sound with the harmony. In all the cases where this pattern is used, there is a building sense of sadness and then these bars create a heavy sigh and dying away. This can only happen when you use the pedal to breathe through these bars.

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netzow

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Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 3 Arggggggghhhhhh

Reply #6 on: November 05, 2006, 01:07:19 AM

Theank you hyrst

I played that piece to the satesfaction of my teacher this week. It definatly does help to rase the hand.

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hyrst

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Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 3 Arggggggghhhhhh

Reply #7 on: November 05, 2006, 08:22:36 AM

That's great, well done! :-)

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mad_max2024

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Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 3 Arggggggghhhhhh

Reply #8 on: November 22, 2006, 02:55:47 AM

When you keep the F key pressed, doesn't the damper from that key stay up until you let go of it? (about the same effect as the sostenuto pedal) Shouldn't that make the same effect as the pedal for that key?
How does the sound get longer with the pedal than just with the key?

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I am perfectly normal, it is everyone else who is strange.

netzow

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Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 3 Arggggggghhhhhh

Reply #9 on: November 26, 2006, 01:50:32 AM

Quote from: mad_max2024 on November 22, 2006, 02:55:47 AM

When you keep the F key pressed, doesn't the damper from that key stay up until you let go of it? (about the same effect as the sostenuto pedal) Shouldn't that make the same effect as the pedal for that key?
How does the sound get longer with the pedal than just with the key?

I not a technician (though I would like to be someday) but my understanding of what the damper pedal does is adds a sort of extended sound to the note. On my piano when I play above where there are damper's on my piano the pedal still has an effect on the note when played. It would seem that the pedal has some sort of added acoustical effect besides the damper. (perhaps all the dampers being lifted up?) So, yess the damper does stay up. No it does not seem to me to have the same effect as the pedal. Does this answer your question?

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mad_max2024

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Re: Chopin Nocturne Op. 15 No. 3 Arggggggghhhhhh

Reply #10 on: November 26, 2006, 02:49:11 AM

Quote from: netzow on November 26, 2006, 01:50:32 AM

I not a technician (though I would like to be someday) but my understanding of what the damper pedal does is adds a sort of extended sound to the note. On my piano when I play above where there are damper's on my piano the pedal still has an effect on the note when played. It would seem that the pedal has some sort of added acoustical effect besides the damper. (perhaps all the dampers being lifted up?) So, yess the damper does stay up. No it does not seem to me to have the same effect as the pedal. Does this answer your question?

Just tested the thing on my piano and you're right, it does have a more extended sound because all the other strings vibrate sympathetically when all the dampers are out.
I don't have a sostenuto pedal to test but I think in that case, the sound duration would be about the same as having the key pressed since all the other dampers are down...

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I am perfectly normal, it is everyone else who is strange.

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