New type of improvisation

[henrah]

I discovered it in a dream last night, and it's called Babel. Supposedly (as I was told in my dream last night) Yundi Li used to play with it when he was younger, and the main reason for it is because 'it gives you something right then and there' which were the words from someone I had eaten beef with earlier that evening in the dream.

Basically, the LH imitates and copies exactly what the RH does. I was experimenting with it on the side of a pool table that had turned into a keyboard in my dream and - to be honest - it doesn't really seem like a completely different system of improvisation, and it seems that it won't produce as nice results as non-restricting improvisation can produce. Yet that person I ate beef with was right: it gives you something right then and there to play around with. Maybe he meant it as some sort of discovery improvisation, used to find melodies and such, but I don't know. I'm awake now and can't go back into it.

Oh yeah, one more thing I found out in my dream: Babel doesn't have to be restricted to exact imitations as the intervals between the hands can change, and I don't think you have to be so restricted to exactly copying what one hand does with the other hand. I think it's mainly used to give you a starting point. I remember that there was some music coming from somewhere in that room and I was playing along with it using the Babel technique, and it worked quite well! Every so often I'd change to an interval of a fourth of fifth instead of an octave.

So what do you guys think of this thing I discovered in my dream? My thoughts are that it's very simple, and not something you would use outright in an improvisation, but more to get you started.
Henrah

[pianohenry]

did you NAME it babel improvisation? i didnt understand from your story - does this already exist or did you just invent it?

[ramseytheii]

Henrah

I was so shocked to see this name at the bottom of the post, as I was totally convinced from reading it that it was another Pianitisimo excursion into the bizarre!  Better make sure you tell her about this.

Walter Ramsey

[dnephi]

P'raps Henrah had something extraneous at the lunch which affected his mind.

Daniel

[henrah]

Hehe Quite the contrary dnephi, I had nothing of the sort! I just had a wierd and extremely realistic dream I had during the last hour or so between waking up and getting up.

Henry, I have no idea if it exists. If it doesn't, then I guess I invented it and also named it Babel, as my dreams are product of my mind.

Maybe this is divine intervention? (hopefully that'll set off pianistimo's radar )
Henrah

[pianistimo]

i think you work harder than i do to get attention.  although, from the way it looks - you really did nothing at all but dream.  i hate dreams that end before i can ask a question or finish copying.  actually, when i was back in college i did dream about a composition i was hearing and wanted to write down. 

keep an open mind!  perhaps the dream will reappear in the same or different context.  and, you can always plan ahead for what you'll do in the dream - just in case you get the chance.  put a notepad and paper by the bed in case you wake up and at least remember portions - as you did this one.

do you want to teach jazz at a college?  i'm curious because there are steps to jazz just as with classical.  if you can put into words these different ideas of how to get started - it probably would turn into a textbook you could sell.  students need these kind of kickstarts - to get the brain juices going. 

did you read the thread about keith jarrett? (was that who it was?) i found it interesting how some jazz artists have more background stuff - and others foreground. never really thought about it in those terms.  your idea seems to use foreground twice (much like bach).  perhaps this would be a new invention in jazz.  anyways,  write it down.

if you can get someone to program ideas, it's cool, too.  one thread in theory /composition has a sort of powerpoint show that highlights the themes (subject, countersubject, answer) so you can understand what's going on.  perhaps this would be helpful in teaching jazz.  many musicians play by rote - but what would stop you from taking some of these jazz students to another level by being able to write down their compositions.  that's where it usually all breaks down.  they are very talented - but have to remember their stuff. 

[ted]

It's very nice in moderation. I've always used a lot of free imitation, although I'm not particular about which hand plays what.  I don't think it's new though, in fact I would guess imitation is just about one of the oldest mechanisms there is. Is a fugue not simply a sophisticated development of it ?

[henrah]

Then I guess my mind was just trying to get me to try something I hadn't before, labelling it as Babel to make me think that I'd created it and be more disposed towards it.

I wonder why I called it Babel... Maybe the spirit of whoever created the fugue was trying to get me to create a musical form. Shame I haven't

[tuckerkao]

Basically, the LH imitates and copies exactly what the RH does.

Babel doesn't have to be restricted to exact imitations as the intervals between the hands can change, and I don't think you have to be so restricted to exactly copying what one hand does with the other hand.

I think I understand what this Babel theory is. You simply train your left hand the same way as you do for your right hand with the same technique and the same fingering. An example of this imitation is shown on the gif attachment.

If you are playing the notes on this sheet, your mirror-imaged clone is playing Fantasie Impromptu on the other side of the shiny surface of your grand piano. Well, I practice this sheet every once a while.

[henrah]

Does it help Tucker?

[tuckerkao]

After I practiced this several hundred times for warming up, I can play "Etude Revolutionaire" (a left handed piece) up to a tempo of 192 quarter notes per minute. It really helps (especially for the 4th finger on the left) for taking over the fingering technique from the right hand to the left. As far as practicing, just looking at the notes of the original Fantasie Impromptu, use its fingerings on the right and cast them to the left for the reversed version.

I even practice the left hand of the reversed version with the right hand of the original version to synchronize my two hands reflectively.

[ramseytheii]

Just remembered a relevant quote from Sviatoslav Richter, which I've posted on here before but always worth revisiting:
Here he is discussing his painting teacher:

"From time to time I used to go and practise painting at his studio, and it was on one of these occasions that he made the following comment, which I immediately applied to the piano: 'Do you know what's the most difficult thing in painting?  It's to draw a perfect circle.  But it's less difficult if you use both hands and draw two circles simultaneously.'  It's exactly the same with the piano.  Symmetry!  Everything has to be symmetrical."

Walter Ramsey