Sorabji Works for the uninitiated

[dnephi]

What would you recommend for a Sorabji introduction? Are many of his works of a dramatic character or of a pronounced bravura flavor?  Such effects that seem beyond Lisztian?

Thought I would like to hear what you think, especially Ahinton.

[ahinton]

What would you recommend for a Sorabji introduction? Are many of his works of a dramatic character or of a pronounced bravura flavor?  Such effects that seem beyond Lisztian?

Thought I would like to hear what you think, especially Ahinton.

Much will depend on whether your question is directed for the benefit of uninitiated listeners or uninitated performers (pianists, in this case, since this is a piano forum); in turn, if the latter, then much will depend on the technical abilities of each pianist.

If we consider the listener, then here are the works for piano solo (excluding transcriptions / paraphrases) that I'd suggest (in no particular order of precedence):

Fantaisie Espagnole & Piano Sonata No. 1 (both 1919)
Le Jardin Parfumé (1923)
Fantasia Ispanica (1933)
Gulistan & Quaere Reliqua Hujus Materiei inter Secretiora (both 1940)
St Bertrand de Comminges (1941)
some of the 100 Transcendental Studies (1940-44)
Concerto per suonare da me solo (1946)
Un Nido di Scatole (1954)
Passeggiata Veneziana (1955-56)
Fantasiettina (1961)
Passeggiata Arlecchinesca (1981-82)

All of the above have been recorded and are available on CD except
(a) nos. 26-100 of the 100 Transcendental Studies (of which 26-62 have been recorded but not yet released)
(b) Un Nido di Scatole (which has been recorded but not yet released)

I would also suggest a listen to some of Sorabji's songs.

For the rather more intrepid, I'd next suggest
Organ Symphony No 1 (1923-24)
Piano Sonata No. 4 (1928-29)
of which, sadly, the former is no longer available on CD (although it was the very first Sorabji work to appear on CD, in 1988).

As to the pianists - well, they'd have to take pot luck in accordance with their abilities, i guess!

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

is sorabji typically not even graded.  is it at a level of difficulty usually past the level 8 of this forum? 

[mephisto]

That can only be answered by a this word; yes.

[pianistimo]

i thought so.  sort of on par with - let play a bunch of thalberg transcriptions.  yeahh.  (maybe one every five years - up to the level it should be?)  there's only a few pianists, in my perspective, than have an edge on these eccentric works.  but, it doesn't stop one from trying.  perhaps the flow comes when you least expect it.  yuo have to get into the mind of the composer, right?  (i'm slightly afraid to, when it comes to sorabji)  ahinton, when are you going to play some for us.  or are you the keeper of the music only?  can you get us some recordings of jonathan powell just playing for fun?  with this type of music - it almost seems that instructions are needed.  did sorabji typically write notes to students in the sidelines - or are the performance indications explained in the score somewhere- or both?

[dnephi]

So yes is the name of the works I should try?  What year is that?

On a more serious note, it seems apparent that it is for the supreme alone, but this was sort of for looking at, not performing, like the Godowsky Passacaglia.  I don't think I'd ever be ready for a public performance.

[Etude]

it almost seems that instructions are needed.  did sorabji typically write notes to students in the sidelines - or are the performance indications explained in the score somewhere- or both?

Sorabji never had students, and only once (as far as I know) witnessed a public performance of a work of his by another pianist (Fragment for Harold Rutland), an experience which prompted him to revise the work a few times, but rarely included detailed performance directions (apart from explaining his accidentals rule in some early works, and the meaning of octave signs).  His attitude to performance directions is explained in the note preceding the manuscript score of 'Sequentia Cyclica super Dies Irae ex Missa pro Defunctis', in which he explains that he feels the music itself should be an indication of whatever expression may or may not be needed.  He adds that "the "intelligence" of the player, will do - or undo - the rest".

ahinton, when are you going to play some for us.  or are you the keeper of the music only?

Alistair has mentioned several times that he is not a pianist, so I doubt we'll be hearing much Sorabji from him.

[mephisto]

I was answering to pianistimo.

For your first Sorabji piece you "have" to play the sadko pastiche; Pastiche on the Hindu Merchant's Song - Rimsky-Korsakow.

I doubt it is easy, but maybe the easiest Sorabji piece of any real siginificance. It is 5 pages, 72 bars and lasts about 4 minutes.

The hole piece is in 3 staves. Marc Andre Hamelin has recorded the piece, wich is my favourite by Leon Dudley.

[pianistimo]

oh.  thank you very much.  the title of the piece alone puts me in a state of confusion.  mr. sorabji must enjoy the travails of music more than the typical composer-pianist.  (btw, this was an answer to Etude).  and, why the three staves.  typical confuse the* out of them.

[mephisto]

Alistair has mentioned several times that he is not a pianist, so I doubt we'll be hearing much Sorabji from him.

Then he isn't allowed to post in this forum

[Etude]

I would also recommend Toccata no. 1.

[ahinton]

i thought so.  sort of on par with - let play a bunch of thalberg transcriptions.  yeahh. 

Er - no...

ahinton, when are you going to play some for us.  or are you the keeper of the music only?  can you get us some recordings of jonathan powell just playing for fun?  with this type of music - it almost seems that instructions are needed.  did sorabji typically write notes to students in the sidelines - or are the performance indications explained in the score somewhere- or both?

My name is Alistair, so please do stop calling me "ahinton"; thank you. I am indeed the "keeper of the music only"; everyone here that has read things knows that I am not a pianist. There are plenty of recordings around of Jonathan Powell playing Sorabji (and some more in the pipeline, i am pleased to be able to report). The rest of your comments / questions have already been answered by others here, I think.

Best,

Alistair

[Etude]

There are plenty of recordings around of Jonathan Powell playing Sorabji (and some more in the pipeline, i am pleased to be able to report).

Did they get stuck?

[ahinton]

I was answering to pianistimo.

For your first Sorabji piece you "have" to play the sadko pastiche; Pastiche on the Hindu Merchant's Song - Rimsky-Korsakow.

I doubt it is easy, but maybe the easiest Sorabji piece of any real siginificance. It is 5 pages, 72 bars and lasts about 4 minutes.

The hole piece is in 3 staves. Marc Andre Hamelin has recorded the piece, wich is my favourite by Leon Dudley.

I now that you wrote this so that I would reply as I'm about to - but yes, there is no such person as "Leon Dudley"; "Leo Ornstein", yes - but he's a different composer altogether.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Then he isn't allowed to post in this forum

Abit late for that now, methinks - and, in any case, do you suppose that Nils could (or would) ban me retrospectively?

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

I would also recommend Toccata no. 1.

Interesting! Many people find that one of Sorabji's toughest piecs to approach; even Jonathan Powell made quite an effort to put the possible dourness of its immediate countenance in perspective (his peformance certainly makes the piece far easier to get to than the score might suggest)...

Best,

Alistair

[mephisto]

I now that you wrote this so that I would reply as I'm about to - but yes, there is no such person as "Leon Dudley"; "Leo Ornstein", yes - but he's a different composer altogether.

Best,

Alistair

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorabji

[ahinton]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorabji

If you (or anyone else) will take wikipedia as the ultimate arbiter of factual repository on anything, then so be it; the provisional names given to the composer at birth are barely even as important and relevant to any serious consideration of his work as might be the thickness of manuscript paper on which he wrote. For the record, his music scores are written under the name Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji (or part/s thereof).

Best,

Alistair

[pies]

1920 Toccata ftw

[jre58591]

the 1920 toccata is the one coupled with "in the hothouse", right? well, id say that both works are definitely approachable, both difficulty-wise and for the average listener (maybe). however, it is the pastiches that really, in my mind, have the most "music" in them. the sadko pastiche is my favorite, follows by the earlier edition of his minute waltz transcription.

[tompilk]

i think his first piano sonata is as near as sorabji comes to what you'll find great first... it is, if you imagine, like busoni and scriabin having a war and all hell is let loose... quite a stunning piece... (the rest of the stuff is a little abstract for me... but Jardin Perfume is lovely and relaxing). Please bear in mind I am no proffessional and that my musical taste is as valid as Tony Blairs... well maybe not quite so low...
Tom

[jre58591]

check out sorabji's transcription of the chromatic fantasia and fugue. it has no "sorabjian weirdness' in it. i like to think of it as a sort of busoni transcription, or "bach on crack".