Sibling Rivalry

[jpianoflorida]

I often have more than one student from the same  family......   many times the older one may not progress as fast as the younger and that can create some friction.     How do you deal with it?    I try to have sibling in different lesson books as much as possible.      Please share your experiences.

[tickingcounterparts]

Although I'm nineteen years old with NO music education since I was 11 (lessons from 5-11)  I have had three students (the parents insisted although I doubted my ability to teach).  I had two boys, both brothers... one much older than the other. There mother insisted on them taking lessons to keep them busy and away from video games. The younger one was AWESOME... and the older was let's say FAR from interested.. 

I would say gauge the interest level of the older one. In my opinion there is a chance of more enthusiasm in younger children as older children have already established their likes and dislikes.  Also, as older children grow they want to separate themselves from doing what their parents want..... If you can tell the older sibling is less interested  try to find more interesting aspects. Have them focus on a piece that is recognizable. I tried to get the oldest into pieces that were more familiar and people would be more impressed with and ask to here.  If there is NO interest, tell the parent, which I finally did and ended up quitting teaching the children.

If the oldest is genuinely interested... you should maybe tell him or her that the child's sponge is like a mind... but as the child grows the sponge begins to fill up and is less apt to catch on as quickly (foreign languages!) though with hardwork and determination it will pay off!!!

Anyways, I'm not trying to sound like a know-it-all  especially since I don't have accredidation... but I wanted to put my two-cents in.

[jpianoflorida]

thanks for your input! please always join in and give us your opinion, plus i think sometimes us older teachers(well, i'm only 41) need fresh ideas..so please always share with us..jay

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

Although I am not a teacher, I think that I can state my stance on this discrepancy, if you will, according to my observations as a student. I think age plays no factor on learning speed, but age does have an impact on concentrational abilities, and reasoning abilities. The younger kid may not have the sufficient means to focus on practicing, and will probably dose off after a short while of practicing. Should the interest be present in an older kid, then he should practice longer. Second, younger kids have less capability to follow directions, and may therefore practice incorrectly or as not intended. Thirdly, the younger kids generally do not linger at the same thing for a long while, and may therefore not focus on actual problems in pieces, but may do other that isn't as helpful.

I really don't see a reason why a child should learn faster. As long as he is over around 10, then he should be sufficiently develop in order to make improvement. In my opinion, older kids and adults for that matter may make more progress because should the interest be there, they will have the capability of realizing improvement takes work, and work takes concentration, something that the little kids do not know enough of yet.

Hope this helps.

[rc]

I've never taught piano, but have recently had success training my younger brother to do my job...  Take it for what it's worth.

My basic approach was to give an honest appraisal:  "your work is not up to par, we have a problem here, here, here... etc.", the purpose is to show what needs work, unfortunately in the beginning just about everything needs work, so it's discouraging for him.  As we go, there's more and more good things I can say, the appraisal becomes more encouraging, the critique becomes more of fine-tuning.

Then, I would make him believe that with work he could become as good as me (brother), if not better.  This is also in honesty.  I think this is the crucial step, to help him believe in future success.  It's important to link the frustration and difficulty of the moment with future reward.

I can't say if this will work in learning piano, but it's worked like a charm at work.

[jpianoflorida]

now rc....take another angle....what if it was your younger brother having to train you?   that's one of my situations...the 5 year old can play better than the 10 year old...but the 5 year old also reads better, is better in math, etc..5 year old is gifted....    so the 10 year old feels dumb compared to her sister 5 years younger..

[debussy symbolism]

I am not entirely sure that your case is possible Jay. 5 year olds generally (pardon my sarcasm) are less developed than ten year olds for one primary reason. Puberty. Puberty causes a mass increase in brain growth, so unless the 10 year old has experienced at least some portion of it, there is a very unlikely chance that a 5 year old is better than the 10 year old, especially at subjects such as mathematics, which require developed parietal lobes which are much more developed in a 10 year old than the aforementioned 5 year old. Fingers and movement is also much more developed in the older one.

Pardon me if yours is a hypothetical case, but the age difference is just too great. My other hypothesis would be that the 10 year old just doesn't care about anything, hence not progressing and seems "dumb". Motivation is a great role. Also, household circumstance and parental approach is a crucial role in development of any skill, so you might want to take that into consideration.

Best.

[loops]

now rc....take another angle....what if it was your younger brother having to train you?   that's one of my situations...the 5 year old can play better than the 10 year old...but the 5 year old also reads better, is better in math, etc..5 year old is gifted....    so the 10 year old feels dumb compared to her sister 5 years younger..

speaking as a teacher (maths), I'd say **one possible** issue happening here is:

The younger one was born when the older was 5. The baby gets the attention so the older one
regresses...to get attention. Attention seeking behaviour  includes actually feeling dumb, it can be
interesting from a theoretical perspective but heartbreaking to watch.
Then of course:
The younger one is the adored baby who therefore has the confidence to "just go for it" and
therefore succeeds. The older one is inhibited, and now at 10 years old is starting to want to
carve out an own identity. This could involve, in order to be different from the sister, becoming
underacheiving even though native talent is there.

Anyway, the cure is to try to carve out a separate musical identity for the older one, to make
(her own) comparison difficult...so using different tutor books, different exam boards etc is a start.
Fortunately piano music is such a hugely wide field this should not be difficult. You only
need to build confidence and then the real talents and interests come out naturally.
At some point, each child needs realise they have to do as well as they can for themselves
regardless of what anybody else does. This is a very hard lesson for a 10 year old,
but it can be made easier for her.

Good luck!

[jpianoflorida]

thanks! good observations!   and I think right on target with what I was thinking...it's so good to get reassurance on this forum!  I think also that younger sister(5) likes to brag to older that she is better, etc etc...the parents are going to have to work on that issue.

[jpianoflorida]

I am not entirely sure that your case is possible Jay. 5 year olds generally (pardon my sarcasm) are less developed than ten year olds for one primary reason. Puberty. Puberty causes a mass increase in brain growth, so unless the 10 year old has experienced at least some portion of it, there is a very unlikely chance that a 5 year old is better than the 10 year old, especially at subjects such as mathematics, which require developed parietal lobes which are much more developed in a 10 year old than the aforementioned 5 year old. Fingers and movement is also much more developed in the older one.

Pardon me if yours is a hypothetical case, but the age difference is just too great. My other hypothesis would be that the 10 year old just doesn't care about anything, hence not progressing and seems "dumb". Motivation is a great role. Also, household circumstance and parental approach is a crucial role in development of any skill, so you might want to take that into consideration.

Best.

it is possible and a reality Debussy....... you aren't taking into consideration that not everyone will learn things at the same rate, etc....   you could have a 20 year old that has trouble reading(not music, just reading)...people learn at different rates... my situation is very real.    What you say make "textbook" sense, but when you've been teaching for over 15 years, you have to sometimes deal with the real world without the textbook.

[debussy symbolism]

Even though I do employ the textbook sense, the likes of which you pointed out in your responce, and even though I completely understand that everyone learns differently, I just don't see how a 5 year old can best a 10 year old at not just piano, but such skills such as math. The age difference is just too great. If they were only a couple of years apart then your case would be possible, and comparing a child to a 20 year old or any other adult is unfair because adults have a more busier schedule and therefore do not have time for anything. Your case would have to mean that the 5 year old is just simply smarter than the 10 year old. I find that very hard to believe, as I mentioned before, the parietal lobes that are responcible for logical thinking are more developed in a 10 year old. Again, age difference is too great. You may have to look more into the 10 year old's life, as he may not get much support from parents, gets into trouble, is depressed, etc. Such hinderance is probably the case, as 10 is an age when the hormones start to kick in.

My other hypothesis as I stated earlier, is that the ten year old just simply doesn't care, as many adolescents do. He probably therefore doesn't practice. Should he be interested he will of course make more progress than the 5 year old.

Please expatiate on your claims and tell me more about the kids. What do you come up with when observing them? Are they related, friends?

[penguinlover]

I have taught several siblings.  One family was all in different levels.  I taught the Mom too, and she was the least advanced, so that probably made things easier for the kids.  I didn't encounter any problems here.

I did encounter some problems when I taught four year old identical twins!  I couldn't tell them apart, until they sat down to play.  One played so much better, and had more interest in music than her sister.  They both came together, and I taught the general lesson jointly at first, then they played for me.  The better one would try to pose as her sister, and I wouldn't know.  The other sister was glad to have her twin "help".  I solved that problem by making sure the Mom was there.  She could tell the girls apart.  I didn't get to teach them long though because they moved away.  It would have been fun.