Basic Motions in Piano Playing

[PaulNaud]

As Marik said in one of his posts "There are three main aspects of piano playing (including ability to play “fast”).
1)   Music image.
2)   Mental and physical reaction.
3)   Physical comfort and relaxation."
I am trying to analyse the physical aspect of this matter.
Movements in piano practicing differ, sometimes considerably, from those in piano playing. In the first case we have to consider not only artistic purpose but physiological points as well.
My point here is to try to find the basic or elementary motions that a piano student should learn from the beginning.
The Mechanics of Piano Technique should tell us what kind of motions are applied to the following aspects of piano playing:
1- The beginning and ending of passages.
2- The production of isolated tones.
3- Legato arpeggio passages.
4- Scales and other legato single-note passages.
5- Staccato passages of single notes.
6- Staccato and legato chords.
7- Staccato and legato double notes.
8- Staccato and legato octaves.

I'll be happy if some of you comment on this matter in accordance with their piano experience or their piano schooling.

[ramseytheii]

As Marik said in one of his posts "There are three main aspects of piano playing (including ability to play “fast”).
1)   Music image.
2)   Mental and physical reaction.
3)   Physical comfort and relaxation."
I am trying to analyse the physical aspect of this matter.
Movements in piano practicing differ, sometimes considerably, from those in piano playing. In the first case we have to consider not only artistic purpose but physiological points as well.
My point here is to try to find the basic or elementary motions that a piano student should learn from the beginning.
The Mechanics of Piano Technique should tell us what kind of motions are applied to the following aspects of piano playing:
1- The beginning and ending of passages.
2- The production of isolated tones.
3- Legato arpeggio passages.
4- Scales and other legato single-note passages.
5- Staccato passages of single notes.
6- Staccato and legato chords.
7- Staccato and legato double notes.
8- Staccato and legato octaves.

I'll be happy if some of you comment on this matter in accordance with their piano experience or their piano schooling.

I will try and provide you with my viewpoint and hope I don't damag myself too much in the process.
Before that, though, I don't understand your statement, "Movements in piano practicing differ, sometimes considerably, from those in piano playing."  I have personally found that in practice I am searching for the most economical way of doing everything, including movement, so that the movements i do practice - and I rarely isolate them - are exactly as they would be in performance.  perhaps I misunderstand you!

In general, about your list I have reservations, because they seem so case-dependant.  for instance, can anyone really say, this is the motion that you make when you end a passage?  It rather depends on what follows the end, in my perception.  But I recognize that you are searching for an economy of gesture here, but I think one can be rather more general in their economies.

Just a few thigns from the list:

2, 4, 5 - Seem more like issues of touch than issues of movement.  The player has to have a good kinaesthetic grasp of piano action, and manipulate it to create different sounds, but this is done largely through the actual contact of finger and key than any particular motion.

3 - The motion that has to be understood here is the natural mvement of the elbow: clockwise or counterclockwise.  Nothing else is needed, besides a good sense of touch, to play beautiful legato arpeggios in both hands.

6 - Perhaps here someone can teach different ways of playing chordal passages, as in, from the wrist, from the shoulder.  Thinking of all those Liszt passages with consecutive thirds with 4-2 fingering, this is definitely played from the wrist, but other slower passages are more appropriate from the elbow or whatever.

7 - Personally, I spent ages trying to find the right "movement" to secure passages of double thirds or sixths.  I finally came to the conclusion that there was no one movement possible that would allow me to play these passages universally.  It is more about suppleness of hand, so that the appropriate fingers can move at the appropriate time, and freedom of the arm.  I have often found that if the elbow is left to its natural movements, many things that are a problem before are instantly solved.  There is sometimes a tendency to point the elbow inwards, which is devastating, or to play with an inactive elbow, which is at best not helpful.  It has to have a full range of movement.

8 - Cortot suggested practicing staccato octaves by playing each one twice in a rapid 32nd-note figure, like an aftershock.

I hope this is informative for you!

Walter Ramsey

[PaulNaud]

Before that, though, I don't understand your statement, "Movements in piano practicing differ, sometimes considerably, from those in piano playing

When aiming for the most efficient piano practicing, I think that  we have to take care that our proprioceptive sensations are clear and distinct. Slow playing serves this aim to some extent. While practicing, slight exaggerations of movements will provide more vivid proprioceptive material, which must be as if imprinted in the corresponding cells of our brain. The contours of this imprint have to be precise and distinct. I think that these sensations should be consciously perceived.

[pianowelsh]

I tend to take the approach of covering sound production fromt the first lesson. How do we make and control/manipulate the sound. From there we approach every technical aspect from that perspective. Ok we have to play a fast smooth quiet scale. How are we going to do that??? well what do we know about speed of key and the relationship between that and dynamic control.  What do we know about making a smooth sound - ie contact time fingers to keys! Ok speed. What do we know about the carraige of the arm and being above a key and how that effects the sound and clarity with which the notes sound etc etc and we work through it so that they get used to thinking OK this is the problem - I know this How do I fix it? that way they learn to be good practisers as well as developing a sound technique.

[chocolatedog]

When aiming for the most efficient piano practicing, I think that  we have to take care that our proprioceptive sensations are clear and distinct. Slow playing serves this aim to some extent. While practicing, slight exaggerations of movements will provide more vivid proprioceptive material, which must be as if imprinted in the corresponding cells of our brain. The contours of this imprint have to be precise and distinct. I think that these sensations should be consciously perceived.

che?

[nyquist]

The most detailed analysis of piano playing ergonomics I know is the Taubman Techniques tapes.  One can disagree with their approach, but I have not yet found anything close to their level of detail.

nyquist

[lostinidlewonder]

To play piano musically you can rattle off a list of hundreds of individual movements and personal variations of these movements, but it is looking at the leaves of a tree not the entire forest. We have to have an overall musical concept as to what the sound we produce should sound like. Thus developing the ability to listen to yourself and make judgement on the production of sound is a crucial step to develop for all students of music. It is thus useless to teach a student a concept if they cannot hear the different and acknowledge how to produce that desired sound with minimal effort.

There are therefore only two controlling aspects to our piano playing. That is listening and relaxation. Everything we do at the keyboard is controlled by these two factors, these two must be at a maximum, i.e you are listening to the sound you produce (and through this listening can vary the sound at your own will) and you conserve your energy and feel all the notes you play are controlled comfortably for you to be confident you are playing your piece correct. That is all that is to it, but the procedure to aquire this state is a complex task and this branches into many disiplines (sight reading, memorisation, centre of hand control, arpeggio/chord/scale pattern, study plans, determining  best pieces to develop your technique etc)

When studying music you need an overall understanding as to how to tackle the physical and musical demands you face. Studying music is not really formulaic, you cannot learn one thing in a piece of music and apply it the same way in everything you do. How you play forte in Mozart is definately differnt to how you would do it with Rach. Legato and staccato touches, there are really countless ways you can exactly produce these touches and it all depends upon the musical context of the piece you are playing them in. So what is required is a refinement of the ear and understanding what it means to be comfortable when playing with your own two hands. With this overall undertsanding we attack difficulties we face with our own personal musical mind not a set procedure we read from a book.

[PaulNaud]

My initial question might be wrong. I know!!! Specially after reading the following quotation by Walter Gieseking: "It is useless to look for the reason of the beautiful tone in some particular finger position or hand position; I am convinced that the only way to learn to produce beautiful tone is systematic ear training".
In that case a lot of piano teachers err through their teaching.

[loops]

che?

what i *think* he means is this (that my teacher tells me): play slowly and exaggerate everything when you
practice. Then when you play under pressure a little bit of personality gets out.

[PaulNaud]

There are a lot of topics about practicing wich should be discussed, because it can make piano playing easier:
1- The weight-effect and how to use it.
2- Free fall (related to no.1).
3- Participation of the whole body in piano playing.
4- What is Naturalness of the movements, or do you ever believe in such a thing?
5- Noise-Effects due to touch.
And much more...........

[lenkaolenka]

Here some video exercises with some basic motions on piano:
-https://-https://www.doremifasoft.com/frvipiex.html
Hope, it would help

[jakev2.0]

There are only two motions in piano playing.

1. pressing the key down
2. letting it go

With this in mind, your son will become great virtuoso. But he must also become cultured man.