pedal

[CDS814]

hey,
Listening to piano masters such as horowitz i have noticed that in many songs the pedal comes in. Is it only appropriate to use the pedal where marked or do perfomers sometimes add it at their leisure. Also, i think i have the gist of what the left two pedals are for but if somebody could explain them that would be great. Thanks.

[bernhard]

On a grand piano:

right pedal - lifts the dampers, so the strings (all of them) are free to ressonate.

left pedal - moves the hammers to the right so that the hammer now hits only one (in some pianos 2) of the three strings for each key (bass keys have only one string, and extreme treble only two , though). Hence "una corda". It has the effect of thining the sound, not necessarily lowering the volume.

middle pedal  - sostenuto pedal. Press a key and before releasing it, press the middle pedal. It will raise the damper corresponding to that single key, which is allowed to vibrate freely - but not the other strings.

Upright piano:

Right pedal - just as above.

Left pedal - brings the hammers closer to the strings, so that the cannot strike the strings at full speed. Therefore it "muffles" the sound.

Middle pedal (when there is one) - Brings a piece of felt between the strings and the hammers, and is intended for practice without disturbing the neighbours. Seriously diminishes the volume. On the Yamaha Silent series, the middle pedal once egaged, connects the keyboard to a digital piano, so that it is completely silent, and you play with headphones. Disengage and the keyboard is again concected to the hammers and strings and you have a real piano.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[schnabels_grandson]

Most advanced pieces are virtually impossible to play without pedal.  Most composers didn't leave many pedal markings, so the markings in most editions are just another person's suggestion.  Pedal use is a matter of taste.  Some people have good taste, others bad.    

[CDS814]

What is meant by: "Most advanced pieces are virtually impossible to play without pedal." When is it necesary to use the pedal?

[bernhard]

The primary function of the right pedal is to sustain sound (by letting the string vibrate unimpeded).

So a first answer (particularly useful in the music of JS Bach that generates much controversy whether one should or should not use the pedal) is that you should use the pedal whenever you need to sustain a sound and it would be impossible to do that by keeping the key depressed with your fingers.

A second function (or perhaps an unintended consequence) is to allow all strings to resonate in sympathy, since the right pedal brings up all dampers.

This has consequences in terms of overtone manipulation (also known as tone colour). The right pedal is one of three ways a pianist can manipulate overtones (the other two being articulation and touch).

For most romantic music and afterwards such manipulation is essential. Chopin, Schumann and Debussy come straight to mind as being impossible to play without pedal since the overlaying of sounds is essential for the effectiveness of their music.

For Beethoven and before, the pedal was more of an special effect. It must be used judiciously and sparingly.

I wouldn’t say it is a matter of taste, but of careful reflection. Usually a detailed  analysis of the score (which notes should be sustained, which sounds should overlap) will solve most pedal problems.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[schnabels_grandson]

What is meant by: "Most advanced pieces are virtually impossible to play without pedal." When is it necesary to use the pedal?  

I mean that in advanced pieces such as sonata pathetique 1st. movement by Beethoven, it is impossible to play smoothly without pedal.  You need to use the right pedal to connect the notes together for the piece to flow.  

As I said, pedal is a matter of taste.  There is no universal formula for deciding when to pedal and when not to.

[eddie92099]

Barenboim was once doing a recital and during a Beethoven sonata the pedal broke. Nevertheless, he continued, and because his fingering was so well thought-out and the pedal was merely used as an effect rather than a cover up the difference was hardly noticeable. It's a lesson to us all...
Ed

[schnabels_grandson]

Yes, My teacher rarely tells me to use pedal.  In fact, I never used it in my lesson until I'd been playing for three years and even then he had me use it sparingly.  He emphasises a technique he calls "finger pedaling".  It is better (in my opinion) to be able to play without pedal as much as possible.  To be a good judge of when to use pedal, you must understand the music you are playing quite well.  In fact, it is best to not add pedal until you can play all the notes of any particular piece clearly and as legato as possible.      

[zhiliang]

Hi,

Correct me if i am wrong but i have read in an interview with Horowitz that he does use the pedal for legato pedalling to connect the notes except that we dont hear it. But in other books, he commented that students nowadays use pedal too much to cover up the flaws in their playing and we should learn to be able to play a beautiful legato without pedals.

Gyorgy Sandor also commented in his book "On Piano Playing" that to use the pedal as much as possible as long as they sound good.

But i believe in using the pedal sparingly and only adding th pedals to affect the tonal shadings. Also pedalling is really a personal thing that is hard to talk about over the forum. And we should all be able to practice till we are able to produce a singing tone without the pedal, or what we call true legato playing.

Regards,

Zhiliang

[eddie92099]

In fact, it is best to not add pedal until you can play all the notes of any particular piece clearly and as legato as possible.

I presume you mean where legato is both possible and required, neither of which you specified,
Ed

[schnabels_grandson]

I presume you mean where legato is both possible and required, neither of which you specified,

Yes, that's what I meant.  Obviously, if legato is not required, it wouldn't be nessecary to use pedal at all.

[eddie92099]

Yes, that's what I meant.  Obviously, if legato is not required, it wouldn't be nessecary to use pedal at all.

What about when it is used as an effect other than to create legato?
Ed

[schnabels_grandson]

That would be the exception.  

[eddie92099]

That would be the exception.  

To what rule?
Ed

[schnabels_grandson]

To the rule of using no pedal unless it is nessecary for legato!  

[schnabels_grandson]

Nothing else to say Ed?  Are you really gonna let me off that easy?

[bernhard]

All rules have exceptions.

This is a rule.

Therefore there must be a rule without exception.

[eddie92099]

To the rule of using no pedal unless it is nessecary for legato!  

Who ever stated that rule?
Ed

[schnabels_grandson]

I did.  It's a personal rule of mine and it is a good one.

[eddie92099]

It's the worst rule I've ever heard,
Ed

[schnabels_grandson]

It's the worst rule I've ever heard,
Ed

Really?  Oh well.