Is evil nurtured, or natural?

[thalbergmad]

everyone brings up 'the earth is flat' notion - as though that is the only argument point.  why so many gods that the greeks and romans - and egyptians earlier - had?  obviously they must have had a reference point at some time to even come up with the idea of 'god.'  we don't give them credit because we think they were 'uncivilized' as compared to us. 

we have an awful lot of 'temples.'  who came up with the idea of 'temple?'  hmm.  let's see - we have:
taj mahal
potala
wat po
fort jesus
mosque et. minaret
mughal empire's
qing dynasty's
not to mention all the christian churches all over the place
and of course, the dome of the rock

who came up with all these ideas that are similar to the descriptions in the bible of gold leafed temples where god's reside or were ressurrected. 

also, noone has really answered my question about the stars not moving much.  if we have examples of astronomical data way back from babylonian times - why do not we give it much credit sometimes.  the north star - for instance. 

and, lastly where did the idea of 'divine right of kings' come from?  hmmm.  someone just made that up one day.  well, in britain - they STILL have coronations.  where did the idea of coronation come from?  when kings/queens are coronated they use the words 'dieu et mon droit' or God and my birthright.  what birthright?  could it be the birthright of jacob?  could the bible be true?  could king david's ancestral line still be on the throne today. God did make a promise that he would continue the line of David forever. 

when kings/queens are coronated in britain - they are annointed with 'holy oil' by the archbishop of canterbury which 'ordains' them to monarchy.  in other countries this has been replaced by an inaugueration.  but, the symbology of the british coronation comes directly from the bible - from the psalms that are sung - to the horses coming in and going out - the symbology of the crown having 12 stones representing the 12 tribes of israel - the scepter (where did that come from?) and of course - the stone of destiny thought to be the original pillar stone of jacob.

now, if the bible was untrue - then britian would not use it as a reference point to their coronations.  there are also other countries - that don't realize it - that have ancestry that dates to the 12 tribes of israel. but, they are called today 'the lost tribes.'  why are they lost.  they're not, really.   they still exist.  abrahams seed was promised to become nations.  they are actual nations today.  does it matter what race people are?  no.  does it matter if they retain the bible?  yes.  if they do not realize their own history - they are denying who they are.

even france's aristocracy was based on kingship.  now, i'm not saying we should go back to this.  i'm just saying - what does history prove. history is a science as well.  should we doubt it?

Very difficult post to answer because i do not know what the hell you are on about.

Try shorter more sensible posts.

The Coronation/Bible thing is really funny.

Thal

[pianistimo]

ok.  let's start with the dynasties of egypt.  why do you think God let moses and later joseph reside in egypt?  as rulers!  because he wanted records kept of the existence of the true history of the bible in archeology.  we have found references to the exact phraoahs of moses day.  and also, the fact that one most likely to have been moses - step-father (and, btw, moses himself - as he was a literal ruler in egypt) - to have not had any of his own sons.  thus, the inclination to keep moses and rear him as his own.

https://cc.usu.edu/~fath6/Moses.htm

now, there have been papyrus found that indicate also a group of people called 'hyksos.'  they were distinct from the hebrews - but were also an enslaved people - in egypt.  when the israelites went out from egypt - they were not just from the tribe of judah (jews - or hebrews) but 12 tribes.  this can be corroborated here - with archeological finds:

www.haynes.tv/ancient-egypt/30/

now - we know that joseph was in egypt at the start - and records of him also exist.  for from joseph - we have the other 11 brothers that went to egypt during a time of famine.  there is actually a picture in one of the tombs of the pharoahs that depicts the seven years of plenty and the seven years of famine.

why would Jesus Christ himself have gone into egypt?  hmm.  perhaps for record-keeping sake?  to prove in history - even though people try to destroy evidence - that these things were true.  God knows how to preserve history.

and, the egyptians were known for keeping quite precise records. 

now, moses, joseph and Christ - are seen to follow a sort of pattern of into and out of egypt.  this is also SYMBOLIC.  they are slaves first - and then, become free.  all of them.  some say - tradition.  but josephus has actually recorded historic events that match the timetables and NAMES that are found archeologically.

i say - if you don't believe the bible on kingship - idea.  where else would it come from - but God?  then, you should try archeology and history of the bible combined.  it proves the bible correct in dates, names, places, events, even precise details (both prophetic and non-prophetic - actual time/place events). 

the bible is real.  the bible is true.  don't blind your eyes to it.

[pianistimo]

the original point of the thread was evil, nutured or natural.  it is my point - from bringing out proofs that the bible exists - to go back and see what prompted the egyptians to evil and thus bringing  plagues upon themselves. 

did you know that these plagues were recorded on papyrus?  the exact plagues of the bible.  the last thread that i quoted it makes mention of this papyrus and where it was found and what it said. 

why would these things be so if God did not tell us the truth about good and evil way at the beginning of creation?  it is because good and evil do exist, imo.  and that we can be influenced by the Holy Spirit or demonic spirits.  why else would Christ have bothered 'casting out' evil spirits.  they are as real today as they were then. 

[thalbergmad]

ok.  let's start with the dynasties of egypt.  why do you think God let moses and later joseph reside in egypt?  as rulers!  because he wanted records kept of the existence of the true history of the bible in archeology.  we have found references to the exact phraoahs of moses day.  and also, the fact that one most likely to have been moses - step-father (and, btw, moses himself - as he was a literal ruler in egypt) - to have not had any of his own sons.  thus, the inclination to keep moses and rear him as his own.

https://cc.usu.edu/~fath6/Moses.htm

now, there have been papyrus found that indicate also a group of people called 'hyksos.'  they were distinct from the hebrews - but were also an enslaved people - in egypt.  when the israelites went out from egypt - they were not just from the tribe of judah (jews - or hebrews) but 12 tribes.  this can be corroborated here - with archeological finds:

www.haynes.tv/ancient-egypt/30

now - we know that joseph was in egypt at the start - and records of him also exist.  for from joseph - we have the other 11 brothers that went to egypt during a time of famine.  there is actually a picture in one of the tombs of the pharoahs that depicts the seven years of plenty and the seven years of famine.

why would Jesus Christ himself have gone into egypt?  hmm.  perhaps for record-keeping sake?  to prove in history - even though people try to destroy evidence - that these things were true.  God knows how to preserve history.

and, the egyptians were known for keeping quite precise records. 

now, moses, joseph and Christ - are seen to follow a sort of pattern of into and out of egypt.  this is also SYMBOLIC.  they are slaves first - and then, become free.  all of them.  some say - tradition.  but josephus has actually recorded historic events that match the timetables and NAMES that are found archeologically.

i say - if you don't believe the bible on kingship - idea.  where else would it come from - but God?  then, you should try archeology and history of the bible combined.  it proves the bible correct in dates, names, places, events, even precise details (both prophetic and non-prophetic - actual time/place events). 

the bible is real.  the bible is true.  don't blind your eyes to it.

Yeh, the Epyptians were excellent record keepers, so why is there nothing about the Exodus.

You keep rattling on about the Bible and archeology, but you are not actually saying anything. You are repeating previous rubbish that you have spouted time after time.

Why do you find it necessary to convince people that the Bible is true?. You obviously KNOW it is true yourself, so why do you keep ranting on. Unless that is you have doubts yourself.

Your silly little Book of edited short stories is nothing but BRONZE AGE MYTH.

Everyone on this entire forum knows your views and beliefs, so please just SHUT UP.

I will never convince you it is RUBBISH and you will never convince me it is the word of God.

So please, for the love of god, give it a rest.

Thal

[asyncopated]

Here is a documentary about who wrote the bible.

https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5006553436948289991

The most amaizing bit for me was the father at the vatican, in charge of the the study of scriptures.   He seemed so blunt about the history of the gospels -- almost to say read it as you will.

Another about lost gospels, that were excluded in the big edit.

https://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-2601797497445547193&q=lost+gospels

Both are extremely interesting socialogical, historical and of course religious accounts.  And I have to say, unbias as far as i can tell.  Both are presented by theologians.

[thalbergmad]

did you know that these plagues were recorded on papyrus?  the exact plagues of the bible. 

why else would Christ have bothered 'casting out' evil spirits.   

1. Wow. I am more prepared to believe that the plagues of Egypt were caused by the Volcanic explosion at Santorini. There is some compelling evidence for this.

2. He didn't and he couldn't.

[thalbergmad]

why would Jesus Christ himself have gone into egypt?  hmm.  perhaps for record-keeping sake?  to prove in history - even though people try to destroy evidence - that these things were true.  God knows how to preserve history.

the bible is real.  the bible is true.  don't blind your eyes to it.

1. If God knows how to preserve history, then where are the Egyptian records of jesus. It is true that the Church has destroyed much evidence.

2. It is not i that is blind, it is you and other ignorami.

[prometheus]

We had to get many greek works from the muslims because they weren't so anti-civilisation to destroy everything.

But Christianity has been defeated. Islam has not. So that's why there are so little middle eastern Nobel prizes.

[chopiabin]

I do think its funny that Christianity is dead in effect, but it still continues to delude some people. It's the "will to ignorance" - they willfully deny fact and evidence in order to preserve their comfortable view of the world. Breaking from tradition requires stubborness, rebelliousness, and intelligence - not to mention balls (can I say that?).

[thalbergmad]

Very interesting programme on Channel 4 last night about the family of Jesus.

The Church has been very silent about his brothers and sisters. They were almost completely wiped out of the Bible.

I definately feel that Christianity is on the slide. Some of the articles recently written by the Archbishops of Rochester and Canterbury smack of desperation.

The Church can no longer torture and kill to force people to believe, they can no longer burn people for supposed heresy. The gospels that did not make it into the Bible or were edited out are now readily available to the general public.

The more i read, the less i believe.

The more i read on here from Christians, the more i am drawn to Islam.

Thal

[prometheus]

Anything about Jesus is pure speculation. Historical fact, if it even exists concerning Jesus, is totally fused with Christian mythology.

We cannot even be sure that anyone named Jesus ever existed on which the Jesus of the bible was based. The bible stories of Jesus do have a lot of stolen mythology from other stories.


Just as with Alexander the Great and that amazon woman story. Might be true. Hard to know. But probably not.


But al least for Alexander we have two contemorary accounts of what happened. In the case of Jesus we have none. We don't even know who wrote the stories in the bible about Jesus. But most are dated 50 to 150 CE.