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Topic: Prokofiev's toccata Op.11  (Read 9768 times)

Offline willcowskitz

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Prokofiev's toccata Op.11
on: August 12, 2002, 03:15:37 AM

Has anyone played this one?
When it starts spreading with the left hand jumping up and down on the keys, the left keeps going over the right hand, which plays the same loop again and again.
Is there another way to play this?  I couldn't figure out any other fingering besides using the right hand for the loop and jumping the left over the right whenever needed.  This causes difficulties in some parts when the keys that are to be pressed at same time are like adjacent to each other.  If anyone has played it or just has reasonable suggestions, blurt it out.


Here's the 'beginning' (the spreading I was talking about)

https://koti.mbnet.fi/exlex/toccata.gif
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Offline lung7793

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Re: Prokofiev's toccata Op.11
Reply #1 on: July 18, 2006, 03:38:34 AM
This is a fun one...I'm currently learning it.  It makes me think of a giant futuristic factory run by robots.  For me, this section just takes lots of slow practice.  The key is to keep the right hand still with a low wrist, finger action only.  The left hand needs a high wrist and just kind of leap-frogs over the right.  I use (starting with the LH Bb) 2 1 4 5 2 1 5 2 1 4 5 1 5 1 and at least 3 fingers on the low G.  Similar for the next phrase. Another idea to keep in mind is that it's marcato and these notes shouldn't be connected (in my opinion).  I think this will help.  Best of luck...this part is actually cake compared to the rest! 

Offline jlh

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Re: Prokofiev's toccata Op.11
Reply #2 on: July 21, 2006, 06:34:27 PM
Has anyone played this one?
When it starts spreading with the left hand jumping up and down on the keys, the left keeps going over the right hand, which plays the same loop again and again.
Is there another way to play this?  I couldn't figure out any other fingering besides using the right hand for the loop and jumping the left over the right whenever needed.  This causes difficulties in some parts when the keys that are to be pressed at same time are like adjacent to each other.  If anyone has played it or just has reasonable suggestions, blurt it out.


Here's the 'beginning' (the spreading I was talking about)

https://koti.mbnet.fi/exlex/toccata.gif


Yes, the RH does the whole "loop" and the LH jumps over the right all the time.  I played this last year for my senior recital and it's definitely worth the effort learning it requires.  Good luck!

Josh
. ROFL : ROFL:LOL:ROFL : ROFL '
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  L   ______/             \
LOL "\         [ ] \
  L              \_________)
                 ___I___I___/

Offline jlh

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Re: Prokofiev's toccata Op.11
Reply #3 on: July 26, 2006, 09:54:05 PM
I use (starting with the LH Bb) 2 1 4 5 2 1 5 2 1 4 5 1 5 1 and at least 3 fingers on the low G.  Similar for the next phrase.

Why 3 fingers on the low G?  I don't see the need for that.  You're right, though, this section IS cake compared to the rest.  The most important thing to consider is your fingering -- get it right from the beginning or it will be more difficult later.  Also, this is Prokofiev, so make sure your rhythms and tempi are perfect.

One final word of caution: don't go too fast too soon!!!  If you're feeling tension building up, go slower until you can do it without tension!
. ROFL : ROFL:LOL:ROFL : ROFL '
                 ___/\___
  L   ______/             \
LOL "\         [ ] \
  L              \_________)
                 ___I___I___/

Offline lung7793

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Re: Prokofiev's toccata Op.11
Reply #4 on: August 01, 2006, 04:02:37 AM
i exaggerated a bit on the 3 fingers i guess...i just mean i arrive at that note and give it the loudest sound, so maybe 2 fingers would do!

Offline nanabush

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Re: Prokofiev's toccata Op.11
Reply #5 on: August 01, 2006, 04:24:11 AM
I [tried] this a year ago, and for the section you mentioned, i did the same as lung7793 mentioned.... everything started falling apart at measure 59... where in the right hand theres the descending repeated thirds, while the B is played on top... too much to handle with the insane jumps in the left hand... then all hell broke loose at Measure 67, which takes such an insane amount of coordination... my hands cramped up, i kept blanking out, and I just gave up.  I was probably doing as Jlh said not too, going too fast too soon.
Interested in discussing:

-Prokofiev Toccata
-Scriabin Sonata 2

Offline lung7793

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Re: Prokofiev's toccata Op.11
Reply #6 on: August 03, 2006, 07:05:21 AM
Yes!  This is when it truly gets difficult in the RH...I think I've worked out a good fingering where the pinky takes the Bbs (or whatever the top note is), while the descending thirds are 1/3, 1/2 repeating over and over....it was hard at first but I keep practicing slowly and it's gradually getting more comfortable when going fast.  This is a tremendously difficult piece to learn, but I hope it will be rewarding.  Any pros out there have tips??

Offline lung7793

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Re: Prokofiev's toccata Op.11
Reply #7 on: August 03, 2006, 07:12:44 AM
BTW
The left hand jumps at this section (d-d, a-a, d-d, a-a, etc.)...what fingerings work for other people??  I'm using 1-4-5-2, etc. I've tried 1-5-5-1...this is too difficult, dont' know how people do it!  Later on, we have the Db-Db-Bb-A etc. double-octave figures, which seem impossible to me with ANY fingering.  suggestions PLEASE!!!   ;D

Offline nanabush

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Re: Prokofiev's toccata Op.11
Reply #8 on: August 03, 2006, 05:55:34 PM
Well atleast when I was [trying] that part... I did 1-3-5-2... I tried 1-4-5-2 but it didn't sound even, sounded kinda offbeat, sorta like semi-triplets...


1          4  5       2

1---2---3  1------2

If that makes any sense... going from 1 to 4 I couldnt play evenly... 1-3-5-2, because I have a pretty good reach I found really comfortable.  1-5-5-1 I'm not too educated on the piece, I don't remember if those bass notes are supposed to be legato, or detached.
Interested in discussing:

-Prokofiev Toccata
-Scriabin Sonata 2
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