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Which is the hardest movement to perform in your experience?

Moonlight 3rd mvt
2 (12.5%)
Waldstein 3rd mvt
6 (37.5%)
Appassionata 3rd mvt
7 (43.8%)
E-major, op. 109 3rd mvt
1 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Voting closed: April 19, 2007, 06:26:35 AM

Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata (Read 4561 times)

Offline cloches_de_geneve

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Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata
« on: March 20, 2007, 06:26:35 AM »
I am just curious to collect some opinions on this question. Apart from the ratings, I am particularly interested in the pianists' descriptions of the particular difficulties they encountered.

Thanks,

Cloches
"It's true that I've driven through a number of red lights on occasion, but on the other hand I've stopped at a lot of green ones but never gotten credit for it." -- Glenn Gould

Piano Street's Digital Sheet Music Library

Beethoven: Sonata 21 (Waldstein), opus 53
piano sheet music of Sonata 21 (Waldstein)


Piano Street's Digital Sheet Music Library

Beethoven: Sonata 23 (Appassionata), opus 57
piano sheet music of Sonata 23 (Appassionata)


Piano Street's Digital Sheet Music Library

Beethoven: Sonata 14 (Moonlight), opus 27 no 2
piano sheet music of Sonata 14 (Moonlight)


Offline nicco

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Re: Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata
«Reply #1 on: March 20, 2007, 08:02:17 AM »
Waldstein, for the length and variety. The Prestissimo part is a pregnant dog.
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Offline pianistimo

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Re: Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata
«Reply #2 on: March 20, 2007, 08:51:40 AM »
i can actually play the last mov't of the waldstein (according to me) no problems at all.  once i worked out the fingering.  however, the last movement of the moonlight - i always admire people who can play entirely through without messing up somewheres.  look at measures 92-93.  ugh.  entire chords played at lightening speed.  what's the secret here?  if it were me - i'd alternate between fourths and fifths or something.  but, all three notes.  whew.  does anyone actually play this?  was this a mistake of beethoven's?  it doesn't seem very pianistic.  it's like he let brahms in the door for a minute.  slowing it down here on purpose?  particularly between the fourth eighth note (second beat - second eighth) and the first eighth of the third beat.  you have A C# F# to G# B E.  how do others approach these two measures?

i've never played the ending to the opus 109 - but it seems that it is quite lyrical.  thus, to me, pretty ok if you make your andante not a fast andante.  looks like you DO have some 32nd notes to deal with but beethoven is such a good teacher.  he really sets u up to just keep on going with these at measure 164 by adding just one note to the trill - making it a set of 9.  is this what a lot of pianists do?  or am i crazy?  do you keep 8  - 32nd notes here? what is typically done here?

i suppose an argument for keeping it eight - thirty-second notes would be that at measure 169 we are back at 8 definately.  if you keep 8 through measures 164- 168 - this is definately a tough spot.  i mean - i can divide the beats - but it must take some practice to get this to be fast and smooth.

Offline pianowelsh

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Re: Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata
«Reply #3 on: March 20, 2007, 09:26:30 AM »
Sorry..but I dont really care....All these sonatas should in an ideal world be studied..hey are all of PRIME importance.

Offline invictious

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Re: Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata
«Reply #4 on: March 20, 2007, 09:28:26 AM »
They all have different difficulties, and it's really up to the performer.
Some may find the quick ascending arpeggios a pain, some find it a pain to interpret the piece properly or whatever.
Bach - Partita No.2
Scriabin - Etude 8/12
Debussy - L'isle Joyeuse
Liszt - Un Sospiro

Goal:
Prokofiev - Toccata

>LISTEN<

Offline cygnusdei

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Re: Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata
«Reply #5 on: March 21, 2007, 01:09:38 AM »
I thought it was obvious that Op. 57 finale is the most difficult!

Offline rohansahai

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Re: Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata
«Reply #6 on: March 21, 2007, 03:17:01 AM »
i think we can get a true picture only if someone has played all of them ...i have played the waldstein (still learning the appasionata). but, there are certain reasons why I think that the waldstein might be more difficult atleast than the moonlight and op. 109:
1. Op. 109 - trills + melody etc... are present in the waldstein, though only in the right hand.
2. moonlight - broken chords - also there in the waldstein (the killer passage just before the presto) ...
So, if you can play the waldstein, which obviously means you can do the trills and broken chords, you shouldn't have any problems with these two, if you put in a bit of practice.
Appasionata is entirely different though ...you need a lot of stamina and there's almost no relief.
It is a fight between waldstein and appasionata in my opinion, the other 2 would be in the slightly lower bracket 'technically'.
(I'm not at all considering the 'musical' and interpretative sides in this analysis. That included, would make op. 109 really difficult).
Waste of time -- do not read signatures.

Offline opus10no2

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Re: Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata
«Reply #7 on: March 21, 2007, 04:38:49 AM »
Speed defines the difficulty.
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Offline rohansahai

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Re: Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata
«Reply #8 on: March 21, 2007, 10:52:04 AM »
Speed defines the difficulty.
heh..not always:
Rach op. 23-5 (Alla breve) >more difficult than Tchaikovsky: Russian Dance frm nutcracker (Presto).
etc etc etc.
Waste of time -- do not read signatures.

Offline opus10no2

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Re: Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata
«Reply #9 on: March 21, 2007, 03:21:22 PM »
Play the Tchaikovsky faster, and then it's more difficult.
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Offline dnephi

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Re: Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata
«Reply #10 on: March 21, 2007, 05:44:42 PM »
Harzh
For us musicians, the music of Beethoven is the pillar of fire and cloud of mist which guided the Israelites through the desert.  (Roughly quoted, Franz Liszt.)

Offline imbetter

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Re: Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata
«Reply #11 on: April 01, 2007, 12:17:25 AM »
i can actually play the last mov't of the waldstein (according to me) no problems at all.  once i worked out the fingering.  however, the last movement of the moonlight - i always admire people who can play entirely through without messing up somewheres.  look at measures 92-93.  ugh.  entire chords played at lightening speed.  what's the secret here?  if it were me - i'd alternate between fourths and fifths or something.  but, all three notes.  whew.  does anyone actually play this?  was this a mistake of beethoven's?  it doesn't seem very pianistic.  it's like he let brahms in the door for a minute.  slowing it down here on purpose?  particularly between the fourth eighth note (second beat - second eighth) and the first eighth of the third beat.  you have A C# F# to G# B E.  how do others approach these two measures?

i've never played the ending to the opus 109 - but it seems that it is quite lyrical.  thus, to me, pretty ok if you make your andante not a fast andante.  looks like you DO have some 32nd notes to deal with but beethoven is such a good teacher.  he really sets u up to just keep on going with these at measure 164 by adding just one note to the trill - making it a set of 9.  is this what a lot of pianists do?  or am i crazy?  do you keep 8  - 32nd notes here? what is typically done here?

i suppose an argument for keeping it eight - thirty-second notes would be that at measure 169 we are back at 8 definately.  if you keep 8 through measures 164- 168 - this is definately a tough spot.  i mean - i can divide the beats - but it must take some practice to get this to be fast and smooth.

i play the entire sonata
"My advice to young musicians: Quit music! There is no choice. It has to be a calling, and even if it is and you think there's a choice, there is no choice"-Vladimir Feltsman

Offline kriskicksass

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Re: Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata
«Reply #12 on: April 01, 2007, 01:04:37 AM »
I play Opus 109 (well, I've only performed the first movement so far, but I've been working on the other two for about a year), and lemme tell you, the hard variation isn't the trill one. Try the march variation in double counterpoint. It's a nightmare!

I don't play any of the other three, so no vote from me.

Offline invictious

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Re: Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata
«Reply #13 on: April 01, 2007, 02:29:10 AM »
Actually, speed DOES determine the difficult.
if you do the ascending arpeggios in Grave speed, then of course it's easier than the Waldztein sonata at prestissimo.
Bach - Partita No.2
Scriabin - Etude 8/12
Debussy - L'isle Joyeuse
Liszt - Un Sospiro

Goal:
Prokofiev - Toccata

>LISTEN<

Offline phil39

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Re: Last mvts Moonlight, Waldstein, Appassionata
«Reply #14 on: April 12, 2007, 01:05:42 AM »
it's a close thing - they all have something evil in them (Moonlight= the octave trills, getting the arpeggio work crisp, Appasionata=endless semiquavers at speed, and hard to synchronize the hands perfectly, Waldstein= 8ve glissandos, trills).. but i would say the Waldstein gets my vote. my reason...
simply because it's the poorest piece musically of the 4. that recurring melody and all the arpeggio passages are very banal if we are to be honest, UNLESS it's all phrased extremely beautifully and you have masterly fingerwork throughout. you hear so many people 'wrestling' with the trilly-scaley episodes of that 'great melody' (excuse my sarcasm), it's just like bashing an etude that they can't quite manage. i think only a true pro can bring it off with beauty and sounding like they are not 'fighting a technical problem'.
it may seem strange to say. but it's almost Mozartian in the sense that the music is very exposed and there is 'nowhere to hide' technically