Dies Irae, second edited version

[pianowolfi]

This relates to my improvisation on Dies Irae from December 17th last year.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,22326.msg248150.html#msg248150

This is the same piece in the edited version. Dark and relentless. I hope you will like it. I will probably only post one more piece out of my program. To listen to the other ones you will have to come to my concert lol  I hope you will like it and maybe compare the two versions.
Edit: I changed the file because the beginning was cut off :p

Best

Wolfi

[Kassaa]

Do you know Galina Vracheva?

[pianowolfi]

Well yeah I have heard about her but haven't listened to her yet. Why do you ask?

[Kassaa]

Well yeah I have heard about her but haven't listened to her yet. Why do you ask?

Well because she's the most awesome improviser ever and I get lessons from her every three months. She lives in Zurich, so I was curious if you knew her .

[pianowolfi]

Well because she's the most awesome improviser ever and I get lessons from her every three months. She lives in Zurich, so I was curious if you knew her .

Oh cool do you come to Zürich sometimes?

[Kassaa]

Oh cool do you come to Zürich sometimes?

Heh, she comes to the Netherlands.

[quantum]

Cool stuff.  I like the ending.

[pianowolfi]

Cool stuff.  I like the ending.

Thanks

[Derek]

Wow, I love this. I love the arpeggios in it, its so dark! Great stuff. Just added it to the list.

[m1469]

Hello, Wolfi.  I am shamelessly listening to this now for my third of fourth time in a row.  I will say that I absolutely LOVE it.  You are so passionate and you have so much to say, and these are both very obvious in your playing. 

I do have a couple of comments on the structure, and these are, of course, just my opinion.  So, please take it as you wish.  You have such a build up toward mintue number 4, and, it sounds to me as though it could really come to a close here (I want it to because of how much you have built up here), resolving on the eb minor here at minute 4:20ish, directly following the Bb Dom 7th chord. 

Well, okay, I needed to hear it so badly that I went and made up my own ending and, if you can believe it, I even have the audacity to post what I hear in my ear ... LOL (attached at the bottom of this post ).  Please don't be offended.  I actually feel very inspired by this and it's the only reason I say anything.  What I did is just a quick idea, and of course you could think of your own if you indeed wanted to end it here.

I actually quite like the suspense of not resolving here, and then transitioning into a new section.  However, I think that your point of the piece is maybe not as focused without this resolution after the buildup.  Plus, at this point, from where you have started us, we don't ever expect in our wildest dreams to have such a dramatic and wonderful closing and I think it would leave us wanting more form you as a musician, without us feeling musically unfulfilled.  For me, my musical wishes are actually somewhat let down by not have this big dramtic closing here -- I don't know, it's just an idea.

So, again, please forgive me if I have offended you.  I am just inspired to discuss musical thoughts with you on this .

Thanks for posting this,
m1469

[pianowolfi]

Thank you very much m1469, I don't feel offended at all, since this is one of the open questions of my program to which I am looking for a solution actually since months. Once more you seem to read my mind.  I have already a version with an ending at that point. Maybe I have even recorded it, I will look for it and post it, if I find it. I also like very much what you do. If I accept suggestions for my compositions from anybody I accept them very much from you since you seem to come in some way from the "same planet" as I lol . Though I wouldn't exclude other suggestions, even from other planets. *looks for other recording*

[m1469]

Yes, I would be interested to hear your ending for there (if you find it).  I suppose that is part of why I want to hear an ending there at all, actually, it is because you sound SO SURE leading up to it, and then afterwards not quite as sure about where you are going musically (though the sections themselves are actually quite great) -- it's like I can hear your questioning -- not emotional questioning, but "where to next ?" and "how do I effectively end this ?" questioning -- when I think your point has already been made quite well.

You know what I mean ?

[pianowolfi]

I found it. I call it "Dies Irae 4"  because it is one of two attempts with an ending at that point. No 3 is okay but there are so many slips in it that I don't dare to post it here. 

One more problem I have is that i LOVE the sections after the unsolved build up soooo much My current way to interpret this is to play the B^b 7 part at a very very soft ppp, almost unhearable and then....well I need to record this first (tomorrow, I can't play right now anymore.) and then discuss. This is really interesting. 

[m1469]

Well, one word :  YES.

I have to admit, it just hits home more.  Now, the thing is that of course your sections following are truly quality, but, you cannot become attached to them where they are at necessarily, IF it is at the expense of the overall piece.  And, your piece is so powerful ending where you did just now, and bringing the theme back one last time, too.  In my opinion, less is more in this case. 

In the meantime, you still have that material that you like so much, and you can do absolutely anything else that you want with it.  If you like them as a transition from a buildup, maybe you can create another piece using that material, with the affect in mind if you wanted.

A comment that I admire so much, made by a living composer in a compositional masterclass that I observed a number of years ago, has just stuck with me through everything that I do, and has completely infiltrated the way I think of compositions in general, whether they are "mine" or somebody else's.  He talked about viewing the composition as something like a photograph, and seeing the overall picture at once (in a sense), taking in mind what the central focus is, and so on.  Thinking of the structure and how that sets up and delivers what you have to say -- ' how are you going to frame it ?' so-to-speak. 

I think your piece says 'IT' where you end it in your recent recording; and again, it's very powerful for me like that.

[pianowolfi]

Okay, this is very convincing . Well of course now... I will try out your ending tomorrow... ..and maybe get addicted...  


And BTW when did YOU post your last wonderful improvisation? I think I am for sure not the only one who likes your music. "Inner Circle" has already 54 downloads.. (lol I never get tired of promoting that one )

[m1469]

One more comment, after listening to it a few more times again .  IF you do decide to end it here, it would definitely be the kind of piece that should close a concert or the first half (but I think more like the entire concert).  And, it is the type of ending that you would not want to drag out on the last chord too much (as in both mine and your's are too long), but rather you land, and then take the inertia of the closing section into physical action by standing up and facing the audience almost immediately after you land the chord, causing the audience to ERRUPT .

Okay.  I just can't help myself from saying my opinions; I am aware that they are just my opinions, as are you, but -- I like them in this case 

[pianowolfi]

One more comment, after listening to it a few more times again .  IF you do decide to end it here, it would definitely be the kind of piece that should close a concert or the first half (but I think more like the entire concert).  And, it is the type of ending that you would not want to drag out on the last chord too much (as in both mine and your's are too long), but rather you land, and then take the inertia of the closing section into physical action by standing up and facing the audience almost immediately after you land the chord, causing the audience to ERRUPT .

Okay.  I just can't help myself from saying my opinions; I am aware that they are just my opinions, as are you, but -- I like them in this case 

Okay I know what you mean!  But in this case there is really a "but", a great one even. Because "Dies Irae" is only one part in my program. And the place it has: between "Sympathy 1" and Sympathy 2" currently. It is a quite "disturbing" element that breaks the idyll completely. I WANT to have STRONG contrasts between the pieces. And, there are endings, like in Styx, that are MUCH more intense and shattering. This piece is only a first step of a few ones that come later. That has to do with the whole conception. I'll post the whole program here,some pieces are just raw versions, some are not yet recorded, some are not posted here

Styx. A long Journey

1. Da nobis pacem https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23008.0;id=2653

2. Prélude maestoso

3. Sympathy 1 https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22293.0;id=2414

4. Dies Irae ( see this thread above)

5. Sympathy 2 https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22235.0;id=2401 (this is the chronological order of the two sympathies, they are named the other way around on ps, sorry for the confusion )

6. Flames

7. Elegy

8. Butterflies
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22475.0;id=2471

9. Cappriccio
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22395.0;id=2457

10. Sunset Suite (1. Yearning, 2. Excitement, 3. Floating https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22475.0;id=2472 this is only "floating", the two others are not available yet)

Break

11. Prélude Presto https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23630.0;id=2862

12. Panta Rhei (clash of the main themes)
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24137.0;id=3105

13. Dies I-Rag (I will post this soon here it's FUN hee hee )

14. Styx https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23332.0;id=2765

15. View from the mountain https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22569.0;id=2491

16. Sunrise https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22569.0;id=2490

The two last pieces have to bear the WHOLE load of the tension. They are subtle and *very tender* but if I can manage to play them accurately, they HAVE the force to solve everything that has happened before in SOME sense. NOT in all senses but in SOME. Whenever I play the whole program as a whole I am in a state beyond any comprehension. I can say this without any guilty-feeling of being self-centered because I feel a very strong inspiration. Of course there will be a lot to do until the performance, some changes will inevitably come, even more because I leave a lot of space for improvisational parts.

Well i know I reveal myself very much if I say this now, but to me this is the most important thing I ever did in my musical life.
(I apologize for the self-promotion but 1. I have been asked to post the remaining Journey and 2. This whole thing has grown also through my relation to pianostreet )

Thank you m1469! 
 

[pianowolfi]

Another try, ending a la m1469 
(The minor/major chord at the end is intended)

 

[m1469]

Composition : 

Playing : 

[pianowolfi]

m1469:

[goldentone]

Bravo! 

[pianowolfi]

Bravo! 

Thank you What does "Simulmessage" mean?

The concert will be in a month and I will play it "à la m1469"

[rachfan]

Hi wolfi,

I only had time tonight to listen through the improv once.  I'm always amazed by your seemingly endless creativity. 

Just wondering though, as composer, how do you sense the overarching form of this piece?  An extended thematic development?  Stream of consciousness triggered by the theme?  A set of variations (where you referred to sections)?  The end of days?  Other?  Just curious.

I think the piece sounds very effective indeed.  I'm sure that in recital your audience will appreciate this work.  Great!!   

 

[pianowolfi]

Thank you for your comment rachfan

The overarching form of this piece follows the idea of an inexorably approaching doom. This form explains itself from the overall concept of my program. The overall concept has two main idea strings, (without actually being what we call "program-music" since it mainly has to do with feelings and experiences that can't be expressed but musically)
 1. An exchange between two persons about the big questions of being.
 2. A concrete confrontation with the reality behind these questions, as a consequence of this exchange

Dies Irae belongs to the second group. End of days, end of time, what remains?

The overall concept has four main themes, Dies Irae being one of them, it always appears again throughout the program and gets in touch and in conflict with the other three. It changes through this process. For instance in the second half of the program it appears in a major key together with the Sympathy 2 theme and to me it's interesting how comforting it suddenly sounds. The archaic, strict, relentless Dies Irae getting soft and human

In this piece it appears the first time. After a short intro with screaming chords in the treble and the theme in the bass there begins a constantly walking triplet movement in the left hand. The first theme begins in the right hand, with a tritone as characteristic element. Modulating, this theme builds slowly more and more tension until the Dies Irae theme appears a second time, still a bit discrete and hidden, but already menacing. A  part with creepy pp arpeggios follows and introduces the second buildup. Through the arpeggios we hear the third Dies Irae entrance, before everything gets very agitated and anxious. The arpeggios reach higher and higher regions, leaving room for an almost brutal bass entrance of the theme. It is suddenly answered in the treble. A short transition leads to a bulidup of the tritone theme, this again leads to the main entrance of Dies Irae in double octaves. A chord section escalates the tragical mood until everything collapses. Dies Irae appears a last time, accompanied by ff bells in the bass before chromatic octaves downwards end the piece.

Indeed the audience likes it, I had a performance last saturday, maybe I'll post a video later here.

Okay here it is, you won't hear any applause though since I played a couple of pieces without interruption.

Edit Aug. 27th, 2010 : dead link removed


I hope you'll like it

[rachfan]

Hi wolfi,

Thanks for taking the time to outline the structure of Dies Irae.  Just listening for the first minute of it yesterday, I knew it had much complexity to it.  So I appeciate your sharing the insider's "program".  Even without that information, I certainly did get the End of Days feeling from it.  You played it very well both in your posting here and in the video.  Also, when the composer performs his own work, it sets the performance practices, which is important too.  (Yes, and I saw how you string out the score to avoid page turns  .)  This is very well-thought-out improvising/composing and performing!