Are all Classical musicians like this???

[matjas]

Hello,

I'm Matjas, I'm from Belgium and since today I'm a 'Piano Street member'.

People ask me, when I tell them that I love Classical music and play the piano, why I don't look like a Classical musician.  People have this image of Classical musicians, they make associations like for example; if you like Classical music, you're a boring nerd, you're old fashion, you've got to where expensive clothes,...  I've always tried to show people that all these things aren't always true.  Now, I'm going to study at the Conservatoire in September and some weeks ago I auditioned for some teachers.  I have found some teachers that are willing to teach me, so i'm sure to be accepted.  I was really looking forward to be a music student at a Conservatoire, but since my audition, that all changed!  Those teachers where arrogant, not just to me but to all 'students', they where stuck up, looking down on people, acting like they where so important,...  I don't know if i still want to study there!  Now, i'm going to apply to some other schools soon, so that i have a choice.  My questions; Is this image of the Classical music world correct, can i aspect the same mentality everywhere?  I was quite shocked by this, you know...  And what is up with that, why does it have to be this way? I tought that artists represented a free mentality, an open mind towards everything and everyone!  Or is it me?  I hope to find a different mentality somewhere, otherwise I'll be studying something else in September...

[Kassaa]

Well there are a lot teachers on conservatories who are friendly, nice, open minded etc. There's also a bunch of blatant narrow-minded cocks. It's just like the real world. Find a teacher that suits you and be happy!

[jonze701]

hmm. first of all welcome to piano street. well i dont hope that all are like that. i am going to a audition to a "school" that is 3 age i think. and after that i can join concervation. but if ppl is like that i dont think i will go to the audition? :S

[ted]

Often people who are especially gifted, or who put a lot of mental time and energy into one activity, are inclined, through perversity, neglect or inexperience, to behave in their relations with other people in ways which fall short of common standards of happy interaction. The trick is to learn from their insights, which are invariably worth learning about, while making allowance for wider deviation in speech and behaviour and taking care not to compromise your own standards. 

Given your circumstances, I would not throw away the chance to learn matters of real value from somebody simply because he or she had a difficult persona, dressed in an excessively formal or sloppy manner, or projected an irritating psyche. What lies underneath might be the very thing you need to learn to further your own art.

[rc]

if you like Classical music, you're a boring nerd, you're old fashion, you've got to where expensive clothes,... 

Besides the expensive clothes, I think there's some merit to those points

[matjas]

I said I would maybe go study something else, but obviously I didn't really mean that... 
But I am going to apply to various Conservatoires, so maybe i can find a teacher with whom the interaction just 'works' better...  Music is to important for me to give up, but still, i find this to be a bit of a disappointment.  You're right when you say that there insights in music are what I nead to learn, and that they may be less social of nature, I myself am not a very extravert person, but being arrogant or letting other people be arrogant to me (for about 5 years i guess) is not really me style...  Enfin, it's the music that's important! Thanks for your reply.

[opus10no2]

https://www.dasdc.net/

chill wiz yo brothaz 

[brewtality]

Enfin, it's the music that's important! Thanks for your reply.

da french slip in 

I also have a big problem with snobbery in classical music. One only has to read these boards to notice it. It's best to just get used to it, coz it aint going away.

[prongated]

...even students can be arrogant toward each other, let alone teachers! The worst case of arrogance IMO is when that person has no idea of what s/he is saying and attempts to either inflate people's impression about him/herself or degrade others...

[danny elfboy]

As someone said it's just snobbery and of course classical musicians are not all like this
In fact: they're not supposed to be like this.

Although it is still a a stereotypes and sterotypes are fake nonsense I prefer the stereotypes of the artistis who is sensitive, eccentric, individualist and creatively weird ... because at least I believe there's more truth to this stereotypes than the snob one.

Many classical composers were like that rather than snob pompous idiots, they were open-minded, eccentric and special. On non avant-gard painting and drawing quarters it is ofter said that to be a painter/drawer you must "see" like the paint/drawer which refers to a peculiar vision of the world artists have/should have.

Jean Dubeffet used to say that there are only three classes of genuine unprocessed human beings: children, savages and artists.

The snobbery in music belongs to the last period when naive modernist ideas became like gospels and serious affairs ($$$) with recordings labels went the wrong way.
It's the period in which you were even threatened and ignored if you didn't follow the dogma of the accademy and their "new music". It's the period in which the importance of less concrete entities like creativity, passion, vision, freedom just became taboo and you could expect a bad grade if you didn't make sure to have a dynamic mark for EVERY note in your sheet (in composition classes) and "little instruction" and freedom of interpretation was not allowed. It's when music stopped being a language allowing intregration between people and communication and it became all a matter of technique showing-off, even for composers and their works.

Unfortunately although we're seeing improvements already and that mentality and kind of music is already older than baroque music itself https://www.masterprize.com/
the environment vibes are still like that.

And yet nothing makes less sense than austerity and snobbery in music and music schools since its very nature as a language, as a mean of communication and expression is naturally supposed to allow a more communitarian, open-minded and estravagant environment. The kind of environment you should experience in conservatories should be the same that you experience on circus-schools or language-schools which organizes travels around the world, on dance-schools and even on sport coaching and teams and not  (like it is now) the same environment you experience on the ARMY.

We do need new music schools that focus on creating a strong sense of community and friendship, artistic freedom and a stimulating environment where music is in context and ALIVE.

[arbisley]

It's possibly got to do with the fact that it is so difficult to make living as a musician, and that it is consequently not in the interests of the teachers to attract too many people, but that just seems like a supid thing to say and completely against the point of music...

[danny elfboy]

It's possibly got to do with the fact that it is so difficult to make living as a musician, and that it is consequently not in the interests of the teachers to attract too many people, but that just seems like a supid thing to say and completely against the point of music...

Making a living has never been the problem.
This absurd fear of making experiences and taking risks is a product of modern times and this is really absurd since we've not experienced 1% of all the problems and harsh life challenges other generations had ... and yet they had less fears.
It seems like it is true that having too much is just counterproductive.

Nowadays it is hard to make a living out of anything.
You may go to law schools but it's pretty doubtious whether you'll ever find a work as a lawyer. You may get a Ph.D. in mathematics, physics and ...  people with these credentials and no job are just thousands. You may study economy or teaching and again the chances of finding a job are pretty the same. We should have grown out of the pretty naive illusion that studying guarantees you a job

Making a living out of art has always been a problem and yet it hasn't stopped real artists. To give up the risk of following a passion for the sake of a predictable and secure future seems to defeat the only meaningful reason to be alive.
There are many compromises to accept but it can be done and the risk is always worth it.

What I find really hard to understand is how more risky older generations were and how we're unbelievably afraid of almost everything even if we're living like kings compared to them.

[mephisto]

Do you have the button on your keyboard wich makes it possibly to write this sign: ........ .. . . . . . .. .. . . . ?

[danny elfboy]

Do you have the button on your keyboard wich makes it possibly to write this sign: ........ .. . . . . . .. .. . . . ?

What do you mean 
I used that sign

[mephisto]

?

[danny elfboy]

?

What do you mean with all those dots

[pianowolfi]

Hello,

I'm Matjas, I'm from Belgium and since today I'm a 'Piano Street member'.

People ask me, when I tell them that I love Classical music and play the piano, why I don't look like a Classical musician. 

Well i personally *LOVE* motivated and interested students that look like hip-hoppers or/and rappers with too long tattered jeans, moonboots and a piercing in their lips who play divine Bach and Mozart. I encourage them to wear their outfit at my student's concerts lol 

[mephisto]

What do you mean with all those dots

After one has written a sentence it is normal to use this sign: "." I think it is called a period sign in english. Do you see how much easier it is to read when someone uses this sign? Personally I think that a lot of what you write is fabolous information, but you should use this helpful sign a bit more.

[danny elfboy]

After one has written a sentence it is normal to use this sign: "." I think it is called a period sign in english. Do you see how much easier it is to read when someone uses this sign? Personally I think that a lot of what you write is fabolous information, but you should use this helpful sign a bit more.

Okay I will use it more. Thanks for the suggestion.
Let me know if the edited posts are better now.

[mattgreenecomposer]

I totally agree with Kasaa.  Occasionally, in the weed ridden dung pile, you will find a cool, intelligent teacher, find them and be happy.

[rc]

I totally agree with Kasaa.  Occasionally, in the weed ridden dung pile, you will find a cool, intelligent teacher, find them and be happy.

Why do they hang out there?

[electrodoc]

I dont know whether things have changed but my own teacher studied at the Paris Conservatoire in the 1940's. He told me that out of about 300 applicants only approx. 30 were accepted. Then, at the end of each year several were asked to leave. Why?

It is assumed that a student is going to make a profession out of music. If you are a pianist it is assumed that you will wish to become a concert artist. This is going to very tough - much competition, a difficult and lonely life, harsh criticism from the professional crtitics. You have to be very motivated and tough to survive. Therefore, at the initial interviews the teachers can act in an arrogant way in order to see if you have sufficient motivation and are strong enough to handle criticism.

Once accepted things become more friendly. Remember that the teachers want you to succeed, not only for your sake but for their own reputation as well. Yes, it is possible that you might not complete the course but if it is suggested that you withdraw at any time it is possibly for your own good, not because they dislike you. It is easier to accept that you might not make a career out of music when you are young than to find out after struggling for a number of years.

So don't take it too much to heart. Do go ahead and give it all that you have got. If you receive criticism (or arrogance) distance yourself from it and ask - "Was that remark really justified?" If the answer, in all honesty, is yes then learn from it. It the honest answer is no, then ignore it. Above all. be true to yourself and to your own ideals.

You will also find that other students can be arrogant - just look beyond the surface and see if there really is something to be learned. We all have much to offer each other but sometimes we do not have the skill to offer it in a kind and caring way.

Wishing you well in your future studies.

Electrodoc.

[rc]

Thanks for the insight electrodoc!  I'd never really thought of it that way before

[Bob]

If you are "off" from the ideal college candidate I have seen that be a problem.  I have seen college people really treat those people poorly when they don't fit the image of the ideal incoming and outgoing student.

And then there is the performance skills issue.  If you can playing circles around the music, college will like that because you impress people are associated with their school -- regardless of whether you were able to play like that before you came in, or if they actually guided you toward that ability.