the most over played and overrated composer is...

[fftransform]

Mon Dieu, quelle list! What you get enjoyment out of, however, is not the thread topic, which is about the most over-played and over-rated composer (in whomsoever's opinion).

Best,

Alistair

Clearly, my answer to either is "as above."  I'm simply taking into account the rather subjective nature of such a question.

[ahinton]

Clearly, my answer to either is "as above."  I'm simply taking into account the rather subjective nature of such a question.

In which case I can only note that if so apparently arbitrarily chosen a list is not necessarily comprehensive as a direct consequence of its very arbitrariness, the genuinely full one might risk suggesting that very little is left...

Best,

Alistair

[fftransform]

In which case I can only note that if so apparently arbitrarily chosen a list is not necessarily comprehensive as a direct consequence of its very arbitrariness, the genuinely full one might risk suggesting that very little is left...

Best,

Alistair

Quality, not quantity.

[ahinton]

Quality, not quantity.

If you say so...

Best,

Alistair

[gep]

Bach is undoubtedly a compositional demi-god

Only demi? Tsktsk...

who wrote reams of music of astonishing quality, and it is hardly correct to call him overrated, but I wish some fanatics would acknowledge that occasionally his music lapses in to the mechanical and, dare I say it, boring.

I do not think I'm a 'fanatic', but to call Bach mechanical is a bit harsh. But boring Sorry, I cannot get 'Bach' and 'boring' to work in the same sentence (unless there is a 'never' in that sentence too!). I mourn your loss....

all best,
gep

[jalexh]

Only demi? Tsktsk...I do not think I'm a 'fanatic', but to call Bach mechanical is a bit harsh. But boring Sorry, I cannot get 'Bach' and 'boring' to work in the same sentence (unless there is a 'never' in that sentence too!). I mourn your loss....

all best,
gep

By 'occasional' I mean very infrequently indeed. Most of the well known works are entirely free from these; there isn't a dull moment in the B minor Mass, either of the Passions, the Goldbergs, the Brandenburgs, the Cello Suites or Violin Ps&Ss or the Flute Sonatas, the 48, nor in a great many other works. However, some of the movements in Clavier Ubung III I find dull (though many are fantastic, especially the opening and closing P&F), some of the cantatas are below par and many of the lesser known keyboard works sound mechanical.

Certainly I don't think I'm missing out on anything with Bach. There is just a certain type of enthusiast I sometimes come across who believe every note the man wrote to be divinely inspired and refuse to consider the possibility he could ever fall below some kind of golden standard.

[bachbrahmsschubert]

Hmm. I really don't hear (nor see) much Chopin in Schumann. Look even at the forms they use; Chopin prefers the single short miniature, Schumann the set of 'character pieces'. Neither composer's style would work well if transferred to the other form; Schumann's cycles allow for the restlessness and frequent changes of mood which would be denied to him in isolated miniatures; Chopin's perfectly contained gems would be utterly ruined if hung together like Schumann's works. And they thought of musically very differently too; Schumann being one of the first composers to conceive of a union between literature and instrumental music and strongly tied to programmatic works, compared with Chopin's absolute music. Chopin never really understood Schumann's music at all.

I think we're debating on different levels of analysis. You are more on a macro-analysis level, while I'm speaking on a micro-analysis level. All the same, convincing one or the other isn't possible!

"Schumann being one of the first composers to conceive of a union between literature and instrumental music and strongly tied to programmatic works, compared with Chopin's absolute music."

Schubert!!!!!! This existed even much before Schumann. Dittersdorf wrote a series of symphonies based on Ovid's Metamorphoses.

There is just a certain type of enthusiast I sometimes come across who believe every note the man wrote to be divinely inspired and refuse to consider the possibility he could ever fall below some kind of golden standard.

Yup. Although I'm one of those who feel Bach did no wrong. We can't expect to frame every piece of music. Even Beethoven hated Wellington's Victory!

Best wishes,

[pianist88]

Sorry guys but I'm going to bend the rules a bit here. Most overplayed and overrated composers to me, are Schumann, Chopin, Rachmaninoff, and Liszt. I am completely serious about the following statement. I started Uni in 2008, and up until last year, all I heard was Chopin, with a bit of Bach and, of course, Beethoven and Mozart. But mainly Chopin. Underrated/underplayed composers include Berg (the only atonal composer I actually like), C.P.E Bach and Prokofiev, as well as Scriabin (who has never really been my cup of tea). 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

There's no such thing as overplayed if it's actually good.

That being said, my answer is Bach.

[thepianist09]

Overrated = Schoenberg. Lots of people I know like him but I cannot stand serialism.

Overplayed = Beethoven. It pains me to say it because he is my favourite composer but there is such thing as hearing Fur Elise one too many times...

And for this I apologise, but I don't understand what some people's dislike for Schumann is.

[pianist1976]

Probably the two most overplayed and (often) very bad played ones are Chopin and Beethoven. Overrated? Never! They probably will never be appreciated enough.

[ahinton]

Overrated = Schoenberg. Lots of people I know like him but I cannot stand serialism.

So Schönberg is all about serialism, is he?! Of his 50+ surviving comp[leted works with opus numbers, the firs 20-odd are pre-serial, Schönberg did not espouse serialism in every work thereafter and, in any case, are you certain that you can identify a piece as being based on serial principles just by listening to it?

Overplayed = Beethoven. It pains me to say it because he is my favourite composer but there is such thing as hearing Fur Elise one too many times...

There is indeed, but hs the possibility not occurred to you that Beethoven wrote rather a large number of other works?...

And for this I apologise, but I don't understand what some people's dislike for Schumann is.

Nor, for that matter, do I, but one lives in hope (albeit perhaps vainly) for the provision of a reasonably detailed and credible explanation for it...

Best,

Alistair

[thepianist09]

So Schönberg is all about serialism, is he?! Of his 50+ surviving completed works with opus numbers, the firs 20-odd are pre-serial, Schönberg did not espouse serialism in every work thereafter and, in any case, are you certain that you can identify a piece as being based on serial principles just by listening to it?

Schonberg is not all about serialism, no, but he is the creator of it. He didn't abandon tonality on his own, that had been happening for many years and had started ever since the diatonic key system was invented. But he did create serialism and that is what he is remembered for by most, not for his works that were not serialistic (but still atonal!).

There is indeed, but hs the possibility not occurred to you that Beethoven wrote rather a large number of other works?...

I know Beethoven wrote many other works. As I said he is my favourite composer at this current time. I am talking about one piece being the most overplayed, not the most overplayed composer, which is not what the question is, so for that I apologise.

Nor, for that matter, do I, but one lives in hope (albeit perhaps vainly) for the provision of a reasonably detailed and credible explanation for it...

Hopefully.

[ahinton]

Schonberg is not all about serialism, no, but he is the creator of it. He didn't abandon tonality on his own, that had been happening for many years and had started ever since the diatonic key system was invented. But he did create serialism and that is what he is remembered for by most, not for his works that were not serialistic (but still atonal!).

Schönberg was not the sole creator of serialism; Josef Matthias Hauer also experimented with this, as did Skryabin, Roslavets and others, with Schönberg merely being the best known for his work on it as a method of composition but, in any case, you did not answer my question, which was "are you certain that you can identify a piece as being based on serial principles just by listening to it?". Also, if Schönberg is indeed best remembered for his serial composition, we have a disproportionate view of him, given the proportion of non-serial work of great merit that he composed; further more, he himself expressed the wish to be known as a 12-tone composer, not as a 12-tone composer!

Best,

Alistair

[piano1mn]

schumann, schubert, liszt

[thepianist09]

In the 1830's the composer Francois Hunten sold more sheet music than Liszt and Chopin put together.

Now (apart from me), who plays Hunten?

You do like salon music don't you?

[camille101]

I'd say Chopin is overplayed only because listening to so many pianists play his music the same makes it a bore.  With the standard competition interpretation, it's easy to dismiss Chopin as overrated, but under different hands, the magic can still be heard:

That being said, I think the Tchaikovsky debate is a bit like the Horowitz debate.  Is it wrong that the music should do everything it can to appeal to an audience?  Or is that part of its genius?

[thalbergmad]

You do like salon music don't you?

Not as fond of it as I was 6 years ago when I wrote that.

Thal

[gyzzzmo]

Philip Glass.
I'll admit his 'music' isnt played -that- much, but to my opinion it shouldnt be played at all.

[bronnestam]

I still haven't figured out why people think Rolling Stones are so good.

 

Blasphemy, eh? Or just off topic?

[harusame]

chopin is overplayed but definitely not overrated

overrated is beethoven

[lateromantic]

and, in any case, are you certain that you can identify a piece as being based on serial principles just by listening to it?

No, not usually, and that in fact brings up the biggest problem about serialism, in my opinion.  The original purpose of serialism was not to create an audible structure at all, but rather to avoid tonality by making it harder for the composer to create the tonal relationships to which his or her musical intuition was naturally guided.

[g_s_223]

I have to 2nd Phillip Glass 

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. .......

[ranniks]

chopin is overplayed but definitely not overrated

overrated is beethoven

You were saying?

[ahinton]

No, not usually, and that in fact brings up the biggest problem about serialism, in my opinion.  The original purpose of serialism was not to create an audible structure at all, but rather to avoid tonality by making it harder for the composer to create the tonal relationships to which his or her musical intuition was naturally guided.

I don't think that Alban Berg, for one, would have agreed with you about that, but this is not really the point that I was making which, to try to be more precise, was to ask if you your ears/brain can distinguish serial music from any other atonal music (subject to the obvious caveat in the cases of both that "atonality" is generally a matter of degree and of listening experience rather than something more specifically definable).

Best,

Alistair

[lateromantic]

I don't think that Alban Berg, for one, would have agreed with you about that

As a matter of fact, I was thinking of Berg when I put in the caveat "not usually."

but this is not really the point that I was making which, to try to be more precise, was to ask if you your ears/brain can distinguish serial music from any other atonal music (subject to the obvious caveat in the cases of both that "atonality" is generally a matter of degree and of listening experience rather than something more specifically definable).

No, it can't, except for a few cases like some of Berg's music.  I got that point and I was merely pointing out one of its implications.  Look at it this way:  In music, what's the point in using a technique whose effect cannot even be perceived by the listener?  It may make for visual scores that have a certain quasi-mathematical beauty (which as a math afficionado I can appreciate), but it adds nothing to the music per se.  My underlying assumption here, of course, is that music is an art-form involving sound heard by human beings.

[lateromantic]

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. .......

Or in some of his pieces:  Yes. Ye.s Y.es .Yes Yes. Ye.s Y.es .Yes Yes. Ye.s Y.es .Yes ... 

[albumblatter]

I don't know anything about overrated or overplayed, but Debussy, Shostakovich, and Schoenberg do nothing for me. I absolutely adore Shostakovich's Second Piano Concerto, but that's about it. Debussy wrote some charming pieces for the orchestra.

I definitely think that any and every composer can be argued to be underrated, or at least, underappreciated. Many Soviet composers, such as Protopopov, Feinberg, Roslavets, and Rakov are only a few out of the hundreds of forgotten geniuses. And there are Medtner, Scriabin, and Kabalevsky, who don't tend to be the first choices -- or the second, third... -- for anyone who ventures the literature of classical music.

I personally feel that Mozart is one of the most underappreciated composers whilst being one of the most overplayed. Not nearly enough people appreciate his piano concertos, especially his 14th, 17th, 19th, and 26th.. they all contain some of the most supreme moments in the entirety of music. And of course, there are breathtakingly poignant 22nd, 23rd, and 27th (which has to be my personal favorite by Mozart). And his early gems are not to be missed -- 4th, 8th, and 12th. As Emmanuel Ax had once said, it is immensely difficult to say anything nice about Mozart, because they are all stating the obvious.

Most composers who are now known for THE work -- Faure and his divine requiem, Moszkowski with his Caprice Espagnol, and Respighi with his Roman Trilogy. I'm yet to listen to Respighi's Piano Concerto and Modo Misolidio, which deserve a new category of revitalization. Respighi's Piano Concerto in A Minor arguably outshades both Schumann's and Grieg's, yet has only a fraction of the popularity of the two famous staples of piano concertos. To be honest, Grieg's piano concerto is pretty boring.
And more people should play Faure's chamber music and piano music. His barcarolles, Ballade, and Piano Trios are to die for.
And last, but not least, Moszkowski's Piano Concerto belongs to one of my favorite piano concertos of all time. It inspires me, makes me tear up, and makes me elated in a way that Brahms's 2nd Piano concerto can only dream of.

[thalbergmad]

Respighi's Piano Concerto in A Minor arguably outshades both Schumann's and Grieg's

Indeed it does, along with about 500 others.

Thal

[kriatina]

I am not sure if there are any overrated composers as such
(mind you, I don't regard people like Glass or many other "moderns" of his league as composers)
...and I do feel music lovers don't have a chance to get many quality productions these days.

For example, I would never attend any concert where for example Bach and Stravinsky
are being played at the same concert,
because I don't consider Bach and Stravinsky to be on the same musical planet...
and I could not imagine to spend money and being conned into listening
to some modern inharmonious "tooth-ache-symphony",
when I pay good money to listen to the real harmony of Bach...

... another point is that many pianists these days appear to play like inhuman robots
instead of playing like qualified, professional human beings
who also happen to be talented pianists.

They are - of course - highly qualified and highly trained, but their training often appears
like an inhuman robot being programmed and it sounds terribly artificial...

I am saying this because I mainly listen now to my huge collection of LP-records
with real quality productions, where many musicians "play from the heart"
and they have been without any doubt really talented... there is often a touch of genius,
imagination and inspiration to be heard as well.

It is from this point of experience that I can say that on many occasions I have been in despair
when I had paid good money to listen to a pianist who was praised as a genius
through the efforts of a huge music-industry and all I had to listen to at the concert
was brilliantly technically performed/played BUT without any emotion and without any feelings,
just how I would imagine a programmed robot would play the piano or any other instrument.

I don't know what has happened to the music industry these days,
but it does not appear to be going in the right direction
and in an effort to find out more, I  have talked with many music-lovers
and we all agree with the observation, that many musicians these days
appear to the music loving public like programmed inhuman robots,
whether they play an instrument or whether they conduct....

[tdawe]

Whomever necro'd this thread, thank you very much. Its contents were hilarious. Quite the collection of pseudo-intellectual amateur musicologists.

[gyzzzmo]

Whomever necro'd this thread, thank you very much. Its contents were hilarious. Quite the collection of pseudo-intellectual amateur musicologists.

γνῶθι σεαυτόν

And yes, just as you seem to have an opinion, so do others


PS. Is your last name maybe 'Glass'? That would explain a lot.

[promusician]

No offence. Just want to say that Chopin is terribly overplayed, many piano competitions bear the name of Chopin. For CDs, I think every major pianist has recorded nearly 50 percent of his piano works.Liszt is in the second place. Mendelssohn's piano music (exclude SWW) is mainly underplayed and underrated. Fontana, close friend of Chopin though, is never heard in any major concerts..

[alanteew]

Debussy

[aklvkk]

I can't say "overrated," but overplayed certainly yes... I've heard too many students butchering up a Chopin etude or his Fantaisie Impromptu -___-

[zezhyrule]

I don't think any one composer can be overplayed (unless that composer is Chopin), it's more certain pieces themselves. Even if you did go by composer, at what point would they cross the line into overplayed territory? You could argue that every composer's works are overplayed compared to lesser/unknown composers.

And I believe that no art can really be "overrated", no matter how you define the word.

I have to wonder how anyone could say Bach though. Most people I know don't like his music for some reason or another. But I do think those are mostly just very ignorant opinions. I used to hate him too, before I really listened to his music.

As for an answer to the topic... I'd have to say Liszt. Only because the stuff that is always overplayed isn't even his good stuff.

[pbryld]

Liszt is probably the most underrated of all the well known composers.

[awesom_o]

Wouldn't this thread be so much more interesting if it were about the most underrated and underplayed composer instead?

[karenvcruz]

I have following this thread and I do find the comments insightful, no matter what perspective people are coming from.  But perhaps, am I getting it right? 

Overrated for me would mean "the composition is say, good, but people are giving it an "outstanding" rating which means, the composition did not really deserve to be rated that high?  Or perhaps, the piece is already on the excellent and putstanding level, and yet, millions of people are constantly giving it super extra mega high ratings.  Like on a scale of 1 to 5 with 5 being outstanding, the overrated would mean a 100?

On the Overplayed, I guess it is because the piece is repeatedly being played by millions of people from different backgrounds, race, culture, lifestyle and others ... not to mention that you hear the piece in almost every walk of life, hence, you will hear it in disney or nick channels for animation and cartoons, commercials and ads of airlines, hotels, etc., variations of the piece done by today's artists from pop, hip-hop, rock, and others, to the halls and walls of Royal Albert Hall caressed by top concert pianists.  In this case, I would put Bach's Toccata in A minor , Fur Elise by Beethoven, Eine Kleine Nachtmusik by Mozart, and Lizst Hungarian Rhapsody no. 2 ... they are the ones I often hear ever since I was a child ... oh, and Claire de Lune by Debussy where if I am not mistaken, Twilight even used as a dancing tune between the vampire and the girl?

[mjames]

Chopin is over played but not overrated.

Man, to the people who call Brahm's music simple and boring...

I have no idea how someone can say that after listening to his E minor Symphony... 

Poor Brahms

[prestoconfuocco]

Definitely Mozart. If I'm gonna have to hear that dreadful k.545 one more time...

[justanamateur]

Strauss II?

[promusician]

Strauss II?

This is not true in some kind of sense, only certain works by Strauss Jr. is overplayed, a large portion of his music fell into oblivion. His complete works has been recorded by Marco Polo label which add up to 52 volumes of music.

[profjoe223]

The answer to that question lies in three names and three names only:

LISZT, LISZT, AND LISZT.

[destini]

I'd rather agree to say "overplayed" than "overrated". Chopin it is. He is literally EVERYWHERE in classical music. Although his importance for classics should not be underestimated, of course...

[j_menz]

I'd rather agree to say "overplayed" than "overrated". Chopin it is. He is literally EVERYWHERE in classical music. Although his importance for classics should not be underestimated, of course...

Firstly, he's Romantic, so nowhere in "classical" music at all. Secondly, he's almost completely absent unless one is restricting oneself solely to the piano repertoire.

[malaguena]

What?? Mozart may be "overplayed", but is indeed underrated, if anything.

Amen to that!

[malaguena]

This is an example of stupidity in the making.

There is no single composer that is both overplayed AND overrated, because for every piece that is overplayed and overrated, you will find another piece by that same composer that is both underplayed and underrated. In addition, almost every composer that is overplayed (meaning they have a lot of pieces that are overplayed- the composer him/herself can't be overplayed.   ) are actually underrated, because people get completely sick of the pieces and stop recognizing them for the genius works they are. Beethoven's Fur Elise, when played by a truly masterful pianist, is still exquisite to my ears, no matter how many times over it is butchered. So is the 'Pathetique' Sonata. Mozart's Serenade in G major is another example (although I much prefer it when all 4 movements are played, rather than just the first.) Do we forget that these works are played ad nauseum because people LIKE them?

Furthermore, nobody is going to be in agreement on this sort of thing. It's not exactly a thing we can measure- how overplayed or overrated a piece or composer is. Someone who dislikes Chopin's works will post his name, thinking only of the Minute Waltz, the Etudes Op.10 No.3 and Op.10 No.12, etc., and someone who loves ANY of his works- overplayed or underplayed or neither- will refute the former. Same goes for every composer already mentioned here- Schumann, Schubert, Brahms, Mozart, even Phillip Glass, and the same goes for every composer which will, no doubt, be brought up later... (I realize I may be exaggerating reasoning for posting the certain composers, but hopefully you understand the general concept I'm trying to convey.  )

These types of threads never end well.

Phil

^^^ This guy. He nailed it.

[inverted]

Exactly, composers who have certain overplayed pieces are often underrated in that other pieces are neglected.

Rach's Concerto 1 is neglected compared to 2. Same for Symphonies 3 and 2 respectively.
Shostakovich Symphonies 5 and 7 overwhelm all the others.
Debussy wrote a whole beautiful Suite Bergamasque yet people only care about the single most impressive piece.

[diwang99]

Honestly, it's chopin that's the most over played and overrated. You guys should see how many asians are playing chopin and the major population in china...(not including me).