Lifting the ring finger?

[oscarr111111]

I find that my ring finger does not have the same level of upwards control (upwards being when the palm is facing down) as my other fingers.  Does this ever change with practice and time, or is it something I just need to work around?

[counterpoint]

That's absolutely normal. Just rotate the arm a little to the left instead of lifting the 4th finger by itself, then it will work fine. Or look for an alternative fingering.

[oscarr111111]

That's absolutely normal. Just rotate the arm a little to the left instead of lifting the 4th finger by itself, then it will work fine. Or look for an alternative fingering.

Thanks.  Another problem is that when playing chord shapes that require a little stretch (my max range is a major 10th, max comfortable is a major 9th, if this helps at all)  that unless I concentrate on not doing it, I often find myself hitting wrong keys, should I actively practice not doing this, or will it go away in time simple by noticing when I do it and concentrating on not doing it?

[counterpoint]

Thanks.  Another problem is that when playing chord shapes that require a little stretch (my max range is a major 10th, max comfortable is a major 9th, if this helps at all)  that unless I concentrate on not doing it, I often find myself hitting wrong keys, should I actively practice not doing this, or will it go away in time simple by noticing when I do it and concentrating on not doing it?

I'm not sure, if I understand fully what you are asking.

You sometimes/often play wrong notes in bigger chords, and you're asking, if you should do something against it?

YES, of course you should play the right notes! 

If the chords are too big for your hands (for example Scriabin has such chords), the chords are meant to arpeggiate.

[oscarr111111]

I don't mean hitting wrong notes, I mean that when I'm really into a piece of music and just playing without thinking my ring finger sometimes will hit a note that isn't supposed to be part of the chord, just by following the motion of the muscles in my hand.

[danny elfboy]

I find that my ring finger does not have the same level of upwards control (upwards being when the palm is facing down) as my other fingers.  Does this ever change with practice and time, or is it something I just need to work around?

Fingers should not be lifted (in isolation), expecially not high.
Whatever finger, lifting the fingers is a very non-economical and strenous motion which doesn't allow real control and smoothness of sound. It's even worse with the 4th finger which doesn't have a dedicated tendon.

The most economical way to produce a sound is to always rest the fingers on the surface of the key (except the thumb which will be away from the keyboard suspended in the air most of the time) and just pushing down and forward so that the carpal joint contracts and the second phalange flexes. There's no need to even slightly lift the fingers with this basic form and it applies to 90% of all fingers technique.

The exceptions (for example trills and arpeggio) should not be achieved by lifting the fingers at the metacarp joints but by lifting the wrist or rotating the forearm.

[oscarr111111]

Ah thanks, that makes sense.  I've been stuck learning on a synth action keyboard for a few months now due to transport and financial issues, so thats probably a lot to do with this problem.  I've got a proper piano to practice on as of next week though .

[ramseytheii]

Fingers should not be lifted (in isolation), expecially not high.
Whatever finger, lifting the fingers is a very non-economical and strenous motion which doesn't allow real control and smoothness of sound. It's even worse with the 4th finger which doesn't have a dedicated tendon.

The most economical way to produce a sound is to always rest the fingers on the surface of the key (except the thumb which will be away from the keyboard suspended in the air most of the time) and just pushing down and forward so that the carpal joint contracts and the second phalange flexes. There's no need to even slightly lift the fingers with this basic form and it applies to 90% of all fingers technique.

The exceptions (for example trills and arpeggio) should not be achieved by lifting the fingers at the metacarp joints but by lifting the wrist or rotating the forearm.

Excellent post!  Bernhard incidentally used to suggest people to turn their hand palm upwards, and then move the ring-finger down, demonstrating how easy it was to move forward, and that lifting it high was not necessary.

I want to add that when one plays in this way, one can feel the action of piano playing in the palm of the hand, and the whole hand becomes involved.

Walter Ramsey

[nyquist]

Fingers should not be lifted (in isolation), expecially not high.

The most economical way to produce a sound is to always rest the fingers on the surface of the key (except the thumb which will be away from the keyboard suspended in the air most of the time) and just pushing down and forward so that the carpal joint contracts and the second phalange flexes. There's no need to even slightly lift the fingers with this basic form and it applies to 90% of all fingers technique.

Please, could you clarify/amplify?.  I am confused by the anatomical terms: carpal joint, second phalange, flexing and contracts.

Thanks,
nyquist 

[danny elfboy]

Please, could you clarify/amplify?.  I am confused by the anatomical terms: carpal joint, second phalange, flexing and contracts.

Yes they were confusing.
I meant metacarpal joints (knucles)
Second phalange I mean the finger portion before the finger-tip portion
Flexing I mean lengthening and contraction I mean the firming due to muscular shortening.

[nyquist]

Yes they were confusing.
I meant metacarpal joints (knucles)
Second phalange I mean the finger portion before the finger-tip portion
Flexing I mean lengthening and contraction I mean the firming due to muscular shortening.

Do you mean moving as on the first video on the following link?

https://www.musicandhealth.co.uk/movies/beast.html

Thanks,
nyquist

[danny elfboy]

Do you mean moving as on the first video on the following link?

https://www.musicandhealth.co.uk/movies/beast.html

That's similar to what I meant
The point is that fingers need to be firm (not too much) at the contact with the key (we can't play with limp fingers, just like we can't hit something with a limb bat)
On the other hand we want to reduce reaction against the hand by moving moving not only down but forward too and this results in the lengthening of the last two phalanges as the key moves down.

[ted]

The occasional unwanted automatic movement of a finger does happen. With me it has occurred only once or twice in a lifetime but it is a nuisance. I have found it can only be fixed by concentrating on the other, correct fingers and, after some time, perhaps some weeks, the problem will slowly disappear. One thing certain - it is completely useless to concentrate on restraining the errant finger. Doing so will make things much worse.