Earl Wild - Chopin Etudes Transposed a Step Down

[cherub_rocker1979]

[nicco]

There is a perfectly good youtube videos thread in the Miscellaneous section.

[ramseytheii]

Brilliant!  I don't think he is right about Chopin's piano, but maybe he is being deliberately eccentric to stir up the waters.  I think such a transposition would be possible without any attempt at justification.

Walter Ramsey

[mikey6]

He reckons it sounds better in a lower key coz he changes his sound and tone quality when he performs in the lower key.  Conviction is a strong thing.

[mattgreenecomposer]

Wow!  Transposing those etudes.  That is serious musicianship right there!  Excellent.  I hope he can't transpose all of them.

[invictious]

Hmm, for some reason, it sounds...really different.
The power of transposition.
Just imagine if Winterwind etude was transpoed a perfect fifth up.

[jabbz]

I don't really think it matters what key they're played in. If Chopin wrote all of his etudes a tone down, Wild would still transpose them.

I can see the lower bass being appealing, but I don't honestly see much of a point to it. Good on him for doing as he pleases though.

[furtwaengler]

Every key has a different color, especially on the instruments of Chopin's day, which were less tempered (I don't think I'm making that up.) Wild's transposition of op. 25 no. 1 to G-Flat puts it more in a warm Schubertian world (Just think of the G-flat impromptu, which Horowitz first recorded in G major because of his ignorance and faulty edition!) I can agree more with 25/1 than with 25/12.

I do not agree at all on 25/12. B-flat minor in this case is a deeper keep, but not a darker key. It is a harrowing force of nature perfectly suited to c minor...and history is on this side (consider the connotations of Mozart's K. 491 piano concerto, Beethoven's Pathetique, 3rd piano concerto, 5th Symphony, final piano sonata, etc.)

I did enjoy watching this interview, even if it makes Wild look a bit dull of wild (Ouch, failing pun...)

[prongated]

I do not agree at all on 25/12. B-flat minor in this case is a deeper keep, but not a darker key. It is a harrowing force of nature perfectly suited to c minor...and history is on this side (consider the connotations of Mozart's K. 491 piano concerto, Beethoven's Pathetique, 3rd piano concerto, 5th Symphony, final piano sonata, etc.)

...my objection to his idea on this etude is not really with the C minor opening sequence - I think there is a more sinister kind of intensity if played in B flat minor (a bit like Chopin's and Rachmaninoff's sonatas)...

...but with the C major sections...if played in B flat major, it doesn't have the same feeling of outpouring, honesty, power, and intensity as when played in C major...

...by Wild's logic, what about Mazeppa in C minor? Surely Liszt bashed the hell out of his then frail piano that even when composing, his piano would generally be out of tune by even more than a tone ^^

[pianowelsh]

I lived with a guy at college who when he learnt a new chopin etude transposed it through all the keys! He was a postgraduate - nothing like as famous as earl wild - but a talent nonetheless... world is full of talented people - praise God!

[furtwaengler]

...by Wild's logic, what about Mazeppa in C minor? Surely Liszt bashed the hell out of his then frail piano that even when composing, his piano would generally be out of tune by even more than a tone ^^

I think he was only referring to certain Chopin pieces, and not to Liszt at all. Aside from that there is more of a psychological reason for Mazeppa being in D minor, and I don't think Wild would deny that.

I lived with a guy at college who when he learnt a new chopin etude transposed it through all the keys! He was a postgraduate - nothing like as famous as earl wild - but a talent nonetheless... world is full of talented people - praise God!

It was a requirement of Martin Krause, teacher of Edwin Fischer and Claudio Arrau, that his students not only master all 48 preludes and fugues from Bach's WTK, but be able to perform them transposed in any key. Think about what an incredible theory lesson that would be!

[pianowelsh]

Brain Ache!

[invictious]

I don't really think it matters what key they're played in. If Chopin wrote all of his etudes a tone down, Wild would still transpose them.

I can see the lower bass being appealing, but I don't honestly see much of a point to it. Good on him for doing as he pleases though.

The first thing here is that it doesn't ruin the music, so that's good
neither does the ruin the etude? I think it doesn't..
if it were transposed a perfect 5th down, the etude will be exactly the same, but probably sound something like death metal piano.

[dnephi]

With Liszt, the key is extremely important.  Ab is the key of love, d the key of Damnation and Death, E the religious, F# representing the distant or unattainable, etc.

[kriskicksass]

With Liszt, the key is extremely important.  Ab is the key of love, d the key of Damnation and Death, E the religious, F# representing the distant or unattainable, etc.

That's really interesting. I'm surprised I haven't heard that before, actually. Did Liszt give each key a designation, or was it just a few special ones? Is there a list somewhere?

[faulty_damper]

With Liszt, the key is extremely important.  Ab is the key of love, d the key of Damnation and Death, E the religious, F# representing the distant or unattainable, etc.

So in modern times, id est: now (A=440), we should transpose all of Liszt's music a semitone down, right?

[invictious]

So in modern times, id est: now (A=440), we should transpose all of Liszt's music a semitone down, right?

Start playing the Mazeppa half a semitone down now

Go.
Tell me how it feels
Same with la campanella.

[dnephi]

Start playing the Mazeppa half a semitone down now

Go.
Tell me how it feels
Same with la campanella.

But seriously, no, I believe that Liszt's instruments were tempered correctly.  Still, it may be all fine and dandy to play things in other keys...

[franzliszt2]

With Liszt, the key is extremely important.  Ab is the key of love, d the key of Damnation and Death, E the religious, F# representing the distant or unattainable, etc.

I find these key things a load of rubbish. I heard Db was key of live. Chopin used to call his girlfriends hooha her "little Db major" hehe!! Some keys have certain colours, Bb is very dark in comparison to say A minor.


I think to transpose an etude is a usefull way of practicing it. I always practice Chopin etudes, and difficult passages in other keys. Take for eaxmple op10no1 of Chopin....you can easily get round that etude playing the notes, at full speed, and still not have the correct technique for the etude. Thats the same with all his etudes. If you glide over the keys playing non legato in op10no1 what is the point in even doing it? Op10no2 if you don't play legato...no point? So if you aquire the perfect technique to play an etude, you should be able to use that technique at any time? My teacher told me, technique is the abilty to do something, when and how you want it, without having to practice it. Thereofre, if you have a perfect technique for op10no1, you will not have to worry about the key, you will just have to worry about the key. And if you have developed good transposition skills, which most proffessional musicians have, you will not have to worry. It's a great test. (try op10no1 in A major!! that's fun!!)

However I totally dissagree with performing things in the wrong key. It becomes a case of "I can play op10...in the key of... hahahah you can't" which is pathetic. Much of what is done in a practice room, should stay in the practice room.