Religion

[thalbergmad]

Dearest Nils,

Please, please, please, please can you open up a seperate board attached to the anything but piano board, specifically for religious talk.

Ta

Thal

[nicco]

I was just about to make this topic but you beat me to it.

I dont mind the "anything but" forum, i quite enjoy reading there, but its become so infested with religion talk lately (for a long time actually), that everything else disappears.

So, PLEASE set up a subforum for religion. I understand some people really want to discuss it, so lets give them a place to do just that without annoying those who are tired of it.

[soliloquy]

yes please

[rimv2]

Dearest Nils,

Please, please, please, please can you open up a seperate board attached to the anything but piano board, specifically for religious talk.

Ta

Thal

Now where would the logic be, in that?

[wotgoplunk]

Now where would the logic be, in that?

We have to have faith it's going to work 

[Derek]

The amusing thing about internet forums, is, if someone is annoyed by a particular topic, they are not compelled to respond. Yet they do anyway. Why is this, I wonder? 

[pianogeek_cz]

Religion board? Brilliant idea! *thumbs up*

[pianistimo]

just for thal - i also suggest an ironing board.  discussing all the possible ways to iron things. 

[thalbergmad]

The amusing thing about internet forums, is, if someone is annoyed by a particular topic, they are not compelled to respond. Yet they do anyway. Why is this, I wonder? 

Because they cannot stand blatant ignorance i guess.

Thal

[pianistimo]

ignorance is bliss.  but, that is only because the truly enlightened know how to relax and make it look ignorant.  some scientific discoveries actually happened because the scientist decided to take a nap and dreamed about something.

shall we say the other end of the spectrum is madness?

[thalbergmad]

some scientific discoveries actually happened because the scientist decided to take a nap and dreamed about something.

Science is 1% inspiration and 99% persperation.

Thal

[mad_max2024]

I go away...
I come back...
Everything is exactly the same...
 

[ramseytheii]

ignorance is bliss. ....

When 'tis folly to be wise.

Walter Ramsey

[rimv2]

We have to have faith it's going to work 

Touché

I go away...
I come back...
Everything is exactly the same...
 

Plus chose change, plus c'est la même

Has it ever occurred to youz guyz that the problem is not the discussion of religion.

There has been no topic solely discussing religion. Most topic are what they are. Then someone of faith put in her, I mean their, religious two cents. Once religion is put into the mix, some Atheist feels obligated to say something. Once the Atheist remarks, the topic the turns into a religious debate. Only it's not so much of a debate as it is a religious punching bag.

Now instead of arguing with logic the religious individual is compelled to argue with faith. Faith, being useless as a weapon, makes the religious person even more susceptible to attack. The more attacked the more the religious feels necessary to defend itself.

Then a new topics are opened to disprove the logic in religion. However, none realize that attempting to disprove religion, illogical in nature, is illogical itself.

Both sides now look like idiots.

The whole process could be avoid if:

1). Religious person kept 2 cent to itself. Not a chance because the religion is a proud and proselytizing one.

2). The Atheist keeps its mouth shut. Now when has that ever happened. 

3). You all accept that no human belief is logical. You are all equally illogical. You should respect the beliefs of others even if they don't make sense to you. But Ah suspect 1 or 2 would happen before this does

[mad_max2024]

The whole process could be avoid if:

1). Religious person kept 2 cent to itself. Not a chance because the religion is a proud and proselytizing one.

2). The Atheist keeps its mouth shut. Now when has that ever happened. 

3). You all accept that no human belief is logical. You are all equally illogical. You should respect the beliefs of others even if they don't make sense to you. But Ah suspect 1 or 2 would happen before this does

4). One or both of them lose their internet connection

[rimv2]

4). One or both of them lose their internet connection

But what if the two should encounter each other IRL

Laugh stupid

[jlh]

But what if the two should encounter each other IRL

Laugh stupid

Awesome! 

[pianistimo]

rimV2 - i must admit - without looking at you i sorta sized you up.  you have completely blown me away with this post and i shall never look at you the same.  admittedly this is 'guy' humor - but i'm still laughing about 'the sneeze' and 'the windex genie' cleaning one's soul.  and, you made some good points about faith vs. logic  although - i don't personally think it's either or.  if it were - Christ would have been completely illogical in attempting to teach the disciples or followers anything at all.  he'd just say - 'go home.'  i think people are taught by being treated well and possibly fed.  he used this technique a lot.  healing didn't hurt either. 

scientology might grasp at the straw of healing - but, i believe it is a fact that healing does happen.  can you see it working?  not always?  but, you can feel it.  and - you can see the proof in an x-ray. 

i believe in going to doctors - but it doesn't mean that i trust them to heal me 100%.  as i see it - it's a team between reason and faith (and faith is not without reason).  if you do something stupid and break a leg or arm - and don't get it fixed - of course it will heal crooked.  but, the healing - what causes it to heal in the first place?  what causes our bodies to do this regeneration of tissue, bone, marrow, whatever?  it's amazing.  and quite scientific - excepting that science cannot replicate it from scratch.  they have to use existing material.

i have no interest in arguing either - and find what you said useful to the situation.  really, the only people interested in religion are those who are attempting to bring about some kind of life changes and think it will help.  or, those who have seen or done or felt something unusual and cannot explain it in scientific terms.  the majority of people have made up their minds - as you say women possibly do when they first meet guys.  this is the A list, the B list, the last case - bad chance scenario.  ok.  some athiests put the religious people on the stinky 'last case in hell' list.  whereas - i think this post has merit and reason for both to sort stick them somewhere's inbetween.  or, as in your case - at the top again.

[rimv2]

rimV2 - i must admit - without looking at you i sorta sized you up. 

By this ah take it you mean prejudged. If so, what sort of initial thoughts did you have. If you mean the other thing, you couldnt handle the size of it. Mah brain, ah mean.

[pianistimo]

you went in a bell curve.  your name reminded me of some bicycling slang term - and i tried to figure it out.  but, then i couldn't quite place you in any sort of pianistic box - but i put you in the skeptical category - so i forgot about you for a while.  that is because you didn't post for a long time.  anyways - there is also the category of 'out of sight, out of mind.'  now that you are back the bell curve is on the way up again.  perhaps at it's peak if we resume some sort of argumentativeness.  but, it was fun while it lasted. 

[rimv2]

you went in a bell curve.  your name reminded me of some bicycling slang term - and i tried to figure it out.  but, then i couldn't quite place you in any sort of pianistic box - but i put you in the skeptical category - so i forgot about you for a while.  that is because you didn't post for a long time.  anyways - there is also the category of 'out of sight, out of mind.'  now that you are back the bell curve is on the way up again.  perhaps at it's peak if we resume some sort of argumentativeness.  but, it was fun while it lasted. 

And, uh... where does this bell curve lead

[pianistimo]

to the end of the fourth chopin etude.  in utter chaos and disarray.  although, i'm used to that.

[ramseytheii]

Touché

Plus chose change, plus c'est la même

Has it ever occurred to youz guyz that the problem is not the discussion of religion.

There has been no topic solely discussing religion. Most topic are what they are. Then someone of faith put in her, I mean their, religious two cents. Once religion is put into the mix, some Atheist feels obligated to say something. Once the Atheist remarks, the topic the turns into a religious debate. Only it's not so much of a debate as it is a religious punching bag.

Now instead of arguing with logic the religious individual is compelled to argue with faith. Faith, being useless as a weapon, makes the religious person even more susceptible to attack. The more attacked the more the religious feels necessary to defend itself.

Then a new topics are opened to disprove the logic in religion. However, none realize that attempting to disprove religion, illogical in nature, is illogical itself.

Both sides now look like idiots.

The whole process could be avoid if:

1). Religious person kept 2 cent to itself. Not a chance because the religion is a proud and proselytizing one.

2). The Atheist keeps its mouth shut. Now when has that ever happened. 

3). You all accept that no human belief is logical. You are all equally illogical. You should respect the beliefs of others even if they don't make sense to you. But Ah suspect 1 or 2 would happen before this does

Somehow people think these talks are about people trying to change other people's minds.  But they aren't at all, and I've said that many times.
Well, when the topic is scientific, I think we can all agree that there is a certain amount of education which is important to have the discussion, and it is less a debate than an exposition.

I don't care if people are religious or not, and they can believe whatever they want to (but I do not have to respect it at all, nor should I), but I like to push the envelope, and test the faith.  How much do they believe?  How much do they unconsciously reject?  These are important questions, because for most people, their faith depends on a certain denial: not as you might think, a denial of reality or real-world logic, but a denial of what their faith actually demands, and states in clear black-and-white terms.  I think I have made some humble headway in bringing that to the attention of some people.

Now, you say that all beliefs should be respected because they are all equal ("equally illogical.")  However, I will never respect the belief of someone who thinks they have a right to kill me, because their book says so.  I will never respect the belief of someone who thinks it is their God-given duty to police my life and the lives of others.  I will never respect the belief of someone who believes their particular religious dicta should be enforced upon people.  So please, don't lecture us about respecting people's beliefs, because it is people's religious beliefs that causes them to do the maximum amount of harm to other people and the world.

Walter Ramsey

[rimv2]

Somehow people think these talks are about people trying to change other people's minds.  But they aren't at all, and I've said that many times.
Well, when the topic is scientific, I think we can all agree that there is a certain amount of education which is important to have the discussion, and it is less a debate than an exposition.

I don't care if people are religious or not, and they can believe whatever they want to (but I do not have to respect it at all, nor should I), but I like to push the envelope, and test the faith.  How much do they believe?  How much do they unconsciously reject?  These are important questions, because for most people, their faith depends on a certain denial: not as you might think, a denial of reality or real-world logic, but a denial of what their faith actually demands, and states in clear black-and-white terms.  I think I have made some humble headway in bringing that to the attention of some people.

Now, you say that all beliefs should be respected because they are all equal ("equally illogical.")  However, I will never respect the belief of someone who thinks they have a right to kill me, because their book says so.  I will never respect the belief of someone who thinks it is their God-given duty to police my life and the lives of others.  I will never respect the belief of someone who believes their particular religious dicta should be enforced upon people.  So please, don't lecture us about respecting people's beliefs, because it is people's religious beliefs that causes them to do the maximum amount of harm to other people and the world.

Walter Ramsey

Hmmm.....

An agitator

[nicco]

Biblical literalism  « 1 2 3 4 »

Starting a New Religion 

Atheists are pathetic.  « 1 2 »

Without the Bible, would your views be different? 

New christianity post (others are way too long)  « 1 2 »

What created God?  « 1 2 »

Why is there so much good done in the name of religion? 

ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC

There is enough religious stuff here to start a separate board. NILS!!

[pianistimo]

i didn't start any of them.  can i be called a pacifist.  and btw, i don't want anyone killed around here.  in fact, i have never suggested anyone be banned for their views.  or, that they have separate threads - so we can distinguish 'them' and 'us.'

the early christians did distinguish themselves by the word 'christian' though.  and they were not ashamed to take the name of Christ upon themselves.  'the disciples were first called christians in antioch.'  (acts 11:26)

i suppose we should be ashamed?  why don't atheists and agnostics realize that ANY belief is a belief.  if this is a free world (?) - they would all receive the same respect.  and, nobody is saying that everyone must be a christian.  we're just saying that there are choices.  when you go to school are you give the choice to believe as a christian?  no.  you are only given one side.  the supposed only REASON side.  but, christianity can be reason.

do you realize that the prophecies of Christ coming in the bible are proof for the exact dates and times that Jesus would live, die, and be ressurrected.  same for the 'end of the ages.'  if you ignore this - does it make it less so?  no.  it will still come to pass exactly as God purposed.  Jesus himself said that the only 'proof' would be the sign of jonah.  that He would be three days and nights in the tomb.  if you don't consider this a proof - then you have to consider simply that you reject it.  nothing more.  why reject christians, too?

[G.W.K]

I only post in Religious topics but I agree that Nils should put a Religion board. If possible, if he could also move the current religious threads into there.

G.W.K

[pianistimo]

why?  it is 'anything but piano.'

[wotgoplunk]

why?  it is 'anything but piano.'

I think "Anything but piano and religion." has a nice ring to it.

Some people don't like having all the religious topics, because they always end up with long posts on both sides, and it's more serious.

Maybe a "Serious discussion" board?

[G.W.K]

It may be "Anything but Piano" but there are lots of long posts on religion that most people don't want to see. There are lots of people replying constantly to these religious posts which automatically puts it at the top of the topic list, making all the others go further down, ect.

I think there should be something like a Serious board too...

G.W.K

[ramseytheii]

i didn't start any of them.  can i be called a pacifist.  and btw, i don't want anyone killed around here.  in fact, i have never suggested anyone be banned for their views.  or, that they have separate threads - so we can distinguish 'them' and 'us.'

Bravo!

i suppose we should be ashamed?  why don't atheists and agnostics realize that ANY belief is a belief.  if this is a free world (?) - they would all receive the same respect.  and, nobody is saying that everyone must be a christian.  we're just saying that there are choices.  when you go to school are you give the choice to believe as a christian?  no.  you are only given one side.  the supposed only REASON side.  but, christianity can be reason.

We hear this alot, that just because someone believes something it should be given respect.  however, many in the Muslim world believe that as the Koran says, it is all right to punish by death those outside the religion (as long as you give them a chance to convert first).  We have seen this put into practice many times.  Do you actually respect these beliefs, because they are beliefs?

Belief in itself is not a standard.  You yourself have said many times to judge a tree by its fruit, well belief is not a fruit, it is a tree.

You are indeed saying there are choices, but you never actually articulate them as the Bible says: to accept the unprompted sacrifice of the Son of Man in exchange for eternal life, or to perish and endure eternal torment in the fires of Hades.  That's the choice; why not be honest about it?

Walter Ramsey

[thalbergmad]

do you realize that the prophecies of Christ coming in the bible are proof for the exact dates and times that Jesus would live, die, and be ressurrected.  same for the 'end of the ages.'  if you ignore this - does it make it less so?  no.  it will still come to pass exactly as God purposed.  Jesus himself said that the only 'proof' would be the sign of jonah.  that He would be three days and nights in the tomb.  if you don't consider this a proof - then you have to consider simply that you reject it.  nothing more.  why reject christians, too?

I do not believe that you have actually infested a thread that was created simply to request a seperate board for religious discussion.

Thal

[jlh]

I do not believe that you have actually infested a thread that was created simply to request a seperate board for religious discussion.

Thal

I respect that belief...   

 

[m]

We hear this alot, that just because someone believes something it should be given respect.  however, many in the Muslim world believe that as the Koran says, it is all right to punish by death those outside the religion (as long as you give them a chance to convert first).  We have seen this put into practice many times. 

There is no place where Koran says that.

Moreover, Koran is compationate to the "fellow Christians and Jews".

And BTW, how many wars in the history were started by Christians and how many millions of people Christians killed on the basis of "religion outsiders"?
Is it what they calle "belief"?

[pianistimo]

the religion that Jesus started (called 'the Way' - by his disciples) neither promoted or encouraged violence.  otherwise -Jesus wouldn't have allowed himself to be cruxified. 

[m]

the religion that Jesus started (called 'the Way' - by his disciples) neither promoted or encouraged violence. 

I think you nailed it, Pianistimo. It is right there--it is in the title--

"The Way" implies "The only Way", which implies "Who is not with us, is against us", which implies that if somebody against of our "beliefs", it is OK to kill them.
That is the foundation of all the Christian mass killings, that's the foundation of Muslim fundamentalism, that's the foundation of racism, that's the foundation of stalinism, that's the foundation of fashism.

And in the core of this foundation is the BLIND FOLLOWING.

It has nothing to do with belief.

Let me tell you Pianistimo, belief is UNDERSTNADING, based on critical approach and analyzing diverse ideas. Belief is no "That's the Way"; in the core of belief is deep understanding WHY this or that way is "The One" IN COMPARISON to others.

Excuse me, with all due respect, let me tell you Pianistimo, unlike you, people who deeply understand "The Way" are silent, and prefer not to talk about it, and don't pimp their Christian ideas whenever there is a slightest chance, whether it is on, or out of topic.

Let me tell you Pianistimo, with all due respect, reading into your "religious posts" to me you sound like a person (and I have to admit, I believe a good one!) who just blindly repeats what you hear from your preacher, or reads and blindly memorizes from the Bible.
Maybe that's the reason why you never were able to put your ideas about religion into analitical, short, and consise form.

And excuse me, Pianistimo, your preachings here to me sound like a commercial:
"Use Colgate!!! ONLY Colgate will make your teeth soft and silky!!!
Call us right now!!!"

What is your point, what do you want to say, Pianistimo?!

Best, M 

[retrouvailles]

I am wondering when Nils will say something on this subject. He has been quiet this whole time.

[pianistimo]

marik, i respect your right to consider that in life you think there are many ways.  so we disagree.  the way of the christian is the harder.  to turn the other cheek.  but, as you say - because we do not always see this in action - the christian way is maligned.  so, all i can say is do not believe everything you read.  and do not believe everything you see.  but, believe that Jesus Christ came to us to change us from mortal to eternal. 

the evidence, which you say is without reason, hinges on the calendar being BC (before christ - or as some say common era) and AD (anno domine).  why was the calendar divided.  why did we not continue to count?  the previous era being 5768 or something according to the jewish people who maintain a record of historical fact from generations of people counted in the bible.

and, why - if we are tens of thousands (not counting billions) of years into history of the earth - is not the planet wayyyy over-populated?  how does the sun still emit enough warmth for us to live (God having planned the exact length of this stars need and capability).  nuclear fusion isn't a magic thing that just happens forever.  and, if the sun died suddenly - couldn't the 'blowing apart' burn the earth completely?  and why, just now, are we experiencing ozone layer depletion if we have existed on the earth this long.  we should be technologically more advanced and have overcome this hurdle if we were on the earth much much longer and survived any natural disasters.  and our ozone layer wouldn't show a delicacy from creation for a certain amount of years.

according to the rate of human race and animal extinction - all animals and humans should be extinct by now.  either by another pole shift and ice-age (which is said to happen every 10,000 years) or sudden meteor.

ps i am responding to questions and not starting them, btw.

[pianistimo]

bible prophecy is also reason, believe it or not.  the bible prophecies 1/3 of the water becoming polluted and unfit to drink or sustain life.  do you know this is exactly the proportion already in china.  the water is unsafe to drink in 1/3 of the fresh water areas.  in many other areas of the world, underground arsenic is a problem.  people have died in india because of this. 

things are not as rosy as optomists suggest.  they think humankind can solve all it's own problems.  but, we can't even solve basic ones as food and water - let alone economic ones.  we will shortly see great financial setbacks worldwide.  God didn't start this whole economic downturn - we did.  by being greedy.  we are causing our own curses as prophecied in the bible.  our heaven will be as brass and the earth as iron (or something like that) - the weather, the finances, the sustenance - that all comes from God will be taken.  then we will appreciate God.

also, we will witness in our days the exact prophecies of Christ.  if it is not in our days, i would be surprised.  this is also 'reason.'  there are many armies poised to enter the middle east and divide the spoil.  i am thinking the possiblity for a war in meggido isn't totally unreasonable.  and right now, the euphrates IS drying up.  as prophecied.  the marshland was greatly cut back by saddam hussein.  and in 1990 turkey built the ataturk dam - which at any time a button can be pushed and the entire river dammed.  (as it was when built).

recent archeological finds prove the bible and God entirely correct.  i went to the king tut exhibit and realized the truth of joseph of the bible was a reality that i saw with my own eyes.  joseph or yuya (imhotep) was a semite!  they acknowledged this and that even his mummy showed differences from the typical egyptian.  the bible is true in every way.  also, joseph married a daughter of the priest of on (aseneth) and had two sons.  they were all buried royally (including the sons ephraim and manassah - called by egyptian names something else).  joseph did not hold the scepter and flail - in a statue of himself - but rather a scroll which said 'God, Father.'  or God is my Father.  i saw this recently in the exhibit.  it is not without reason that i believe the words of the bible are true.

[m]

marik, i respect your right to consider that in life you think there are many ways.  so we disagree.  the way of the christian is the harder.  to turn the other cheek. 

Ha!

The way of the Christian is the harder!!!

Then what's about entire Jewish nation, which was fate for exhile and extermination for almost two thousand years after some imposter named Jesus Christ was crucified?

And the reason the calendar being BC and AD is a direct consequence of that extermination.

Mind you, in the whole history there was no one single war Jews started on a religious basis.

[m]

ps i am responding to questions and not starting them, btw.

Nope, sorry to tell you are just preaching what you've been told and what you have memorized about Jesus Christ.

So far you did not answer even one single question of mine in a more or less intelligable or intelligent way.

[pianistimo]

marik, i hear you.  and yet christians have been abducted, tortured, beheaded - and killed in various rampages by people who hate christians, as well.

i love the jewish people, myself - and do not accuse them of killing our Lord and savior.  basically it was one of his own disciples that turned him in to the authorities.  and the romans were pleased to do away with him because he was supposedly instigating riots claiming to be 'king of the jews.'  as He says, they were his people (and He was born a jew) and 'to the jew first....' that shows the incredible love of God to his own chosen people even if they do not recognize him as messiah already.  they surely will at his second coming.  and the pain of the holocaust will be replaced by a righteousness that will reign forever and ever.  so pain doesn't last more than this lifetime.

do you know that the jews set a place for elijah at their passover sedar tables.  why elijah?  because they know at the end times elijah will prepare the way for his coming.  even if they didn't believe he came the first time - the second time He will truly set them free.  if anyone should desire his presence, it should be the jew.  after all, they are sacred keepers of the temple and the temple mount - where Jesus will suddenly come to 'his people.'  why does he call them 'his people' - if he does not consider them 'his own.'  why 'his own.'  they have kept the torah.  his law.  to the end of the age.  they even buy burial plots right outside the Eastern wall so that they might be the first in the ressurrection to see Jesus or Yeshua (as they call Him).  although, if 'every eye shall see him' - perhaps every eye will see him at the same time.  the ressurrection will truly be the most astounding historical event.

if you have never visited jerusalem, i suggest you do so.  it will change your mind forever about the truth of the bible.  all the places are exactly as they say.  and bethlehem - that tiny city - where our Lord was born - is still a very humble place.  Jesus was born in humility and served us - and yet is our King.  all the circumstances even surrounding his death helps us as christians today feel empathy.  his mother being doubted as a virgin and scoffed.  his father dying early and leaving jesus to help his mother and brothers.  the many trials and sleepless days and nights.  the energy he must have needed - without anyone to encourage him - to keep encouraging others.  he got this all from God his Father.  the source of His strength.

[m]

if you have never visited jerusalem, i suggest you do so.  it will change your mind forever about the truth of the bible. 

Yeah, tell me about Jerusalem--I used to live there for quite a few years.

It seems you understood nothing from what I wrote before, so I guess, the best for me is to bow and calmly leave. That way you can keep soliciting and spamming the board with your religious ravings and phantasmagorias.

But before I do, let me tell you Pianistimo, a few more things:

and yet christians have been abducted, tortured, beheaded - and killed in various rampages by people who hate christians, as well.

As opposed to the Nation from which was taken its entire land, entire Nation which was forced into thousands years of exhile, Nation which by fear of death forced to change beliefs, Nation which for centures was EXTERMINATED  by MILLIONS!?
Do you understand what you are talking about, Pianistimo, and difference in the scales of those events?!  And let me remind you it was all done for sake of your beloved Christianity!
Let's talk about "the harder"!


and the pain of the holocaust will be replaced by a righteousness that will reign forever and ever.  so pain doesn't last more than this lifetime.


Yeah, sure!

According to you, as long as Jews will be reincarnated as Christians.
Please give me a break .

And the last, you foist your way as the one and the only one, and refuse people their right to their own beliefs.

In my book this is the direct path to anticemitism, racism, fashism, fundamentalism, terrorism, henocide.

Draw your own conclusions.

Best, M

[wotgoplunk]

I can't help but notice a thread intended to move religion to a separate forum has now turned into a religious debate 

[thalbergmad]

It seems you understood nothing from what I wrote before, so I guess, the best for me is to bow and calmly leave.

For your own sanity, i suggest that you do.

Your sensible posts and questions will be met with even more pointless spam, which will get longer and longer. Eventually, it will grind you down and you will stop responding. At this point, she will claim victory.

Trying to debate with pianistimo is akin to trying to fell a giant redwood with a haddock.

I beg you to utilise your time with posting brilliant recordings in the audition room and offering excellent advice on the other boards.

Leave the battle with the blinkered to those with lesser pianistic skills.

Regards

Thal

[m]

For your own sanity, i suggest that you do.

Your sensible posts and questions will be met with even more pointless spam, which will get longer and longer. Eventually, it will grind you down and you will stop responding. At this point, she will claim victory.

Trying to debate with pianistimo is akin to trying to fell a giant redwood with a haddock.

I beg you to utilise your time with posting brilliant recordings in the audition room and offering excellent advice on the other boards.

Leave the battle with the blinkered to those with lesser pianistic skills.

Regards

Thal

Thanks Thal for your nice words .

Well, for now I will give one more--the last benefit of doubt. And then let's see

Best, M

[pianistimo]

the nazi ideology was not particularly christian.  and millions were killed.  i don't think the gas chambers were filled only with jews, though.  there were many christians that died as well.  basically, hitler pretended that he was for christianity whilst being very interested in the occult.  how one translates this to christian thought is beyond me.  i've heard it said that some christians do not like jews - but i am not one of those.  so, your words about about not sufferring similarly is not true necessarily.  if you love all people - of course you will suffer.  i am willing to suffer (and have many times) for upholding the rights of the jewish people to their land, to their religion (not necessarily christianity - though of course i wish that they come to a knowledge of the saving grace of Yeshua - who has already come once and was ressurrected in glory), and to the continuing protection of the small state of israel amongst other very large states that are arab. 

i wish to also say - that i am very much against war and think that innocent civilians have been murdered for the sake of government corruption and greed.  both by saddam hussein and by misled troops in certain times and areas.  some good is done.  some terrible atrocities are done.  terrorism is an atrocity and is being provoked because they do not see the 'results' of christianity in our nation and assume that it should be so even though not everyone is christian.  we do not really call ourselves a christian nation and so have lost our power and might (thru God) to direct our national affairs with His blessing.  (and wisdom). 

that is my personal thoughts and response to yours marik.  blessings to you and yours.  susan

[m]

Well Susan,

I am sorry, you still do not get what I am saying.
You know, I feel talking to you is the same as talking to a wall--I am saying one thing--you reply with something completely unrelated.
Exactly the same feeling I had talking to missionaries. For some reason, invariably they did not have enough intelligence to connect even two things together.
I am just wondering, why such a similarity


I am not sure if you are a troll, or this is your tactic, or you don't understand something, but at this point, for my own sanity I'd better indeed listen to Thal's good advise and leave.

Consider you won!

Congratulations, and enjoy yourself!!!

Ciao

Love and peace!

[rimv2]

Well Susan,

I am sorry, you still do not get what I am saying.
You know, I feel talking to you is the same as talking to a wall--I am saying one thing--you reply with something completely unrelated. Exactly the same feeling I had talking to some missionaries.

I am not sure if you are a troll, or this is your tactic, or you indeed don't understand something, but at this point, for my own sanity I'd better indeed to listen to Thal's good advise and leave.

Consider you won!

Congratulations, and enjoy yourself!!!

Ciao

Scratch one more for pianistissimo

[ihatepop]

Yes...religion board...please...I'm sick and tired off all the offtopic crap.

ihatepop