Piano Forum

Pages: [1] Go Down

Topic: Good Waldstein (Read 8157 times)

mikebechstein

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 64

Hi,

Can anybody help me?

I have never yet found a recording of Walstein that fully satisfies me and it is one of my favourite pieces. My favourite interpretation, that I have, on disc is Walter Gieseking (despite his rushed first movement.) I also have copies of Arrau (fairly modern recording but I can’t remember the date), Brendel (digital), Kempff (last recording), and Paul Lewis.

Could anybody suggest any great recordings, bearing in mind that I like Gieseking’s approach (in a way similar to Cortot in Schumann in that the music and its meaning are more important than the notes.)

Thanks,

Mike

Logged

Più Vivo

avetma

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 331

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #1 on: August 04, 2007, 09:30:36 AM

I don't know about Gieseking's approach, but I do know that I like Gilels interpretation very much.

Logged

nicco

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1191

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #2 on: August 04, 2007, 09:34:27 AM

Gilels is probably my favourite as well.

Logged

"Without music, life would be a mistake." - Friedrich Nietzsche

thalberg

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1950

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #3 on: August 04, 2007, 09:42:55 AM

I have Richard Goode's recording of Waldstein, and it's NOT great. So I can't tell you which is best, but I can tell you not to waste your money on that one.

Logged

mcgillcomposer

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 839

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #4 on: August 04, 2007, 10:24:15 AM

Quote from: thalberg on August 04, 2007, 09:42:55 AM

I have Richard Goode's recording of Waldstein, and it's NOT great. So I can't tell you which is best, but I can tell you not to waste your money on that one.

Hell...it's not even "Goode"...

*dodges tomatoes

Logged

Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

pianistimo

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 12142

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #5 on: August 04, 2007, 05:29:53 PM

i'll play it for you - the way it should be played. at least the way i think it should be played. actually, you can probably play it the way you want to hear it too. i think for some pieces - you just have to play them yourself to be fully satisfied.

i hear a persistent regular hampster heartbeat with a bit of umph on the first of the eight beats. if i don't hear that umph at a regular pace - i automatically don't like it. the reason - is that it seems to me that beethoven was building upon this basic fundamental 'beat' and making it into a 'fantasmic' thing like the emperor concerto. as i hear it - one should take complete charge of the piece at the very beginning. then, you have to prove you can ride this horse all the way through without slowing down too terribly much and not showing any signs of fatigue. i find it semi-donquixotic. you're either crazy to play it - or the piece turns crazy while you play it - but in any case - you can get stuck in it's windmill and actually enjoy the crazy pleasure it brings.

ps i don't like it too fast either. moderately fast seems better.

if i were to put a video to the thing - i would have the hampster completely flip on his wheel at every second high five finger alternation.

you could also mentally picture this piece as someone who ate a plate of aphrodesiacal food (ie a lot of hot peppers) and goes ballistic.

Logged

jakev2.0

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 809

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #6 on: August 04, 2007, 05:37:53 PM

All superb recordings: Hofmann, Moiseiwitsch, Schnabel.

Logged

getcool

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 27

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #7 on: August 06, 2007, 06:52:53 AM

Quote from: pianistimo on August 04, 2007, 05:29:53 PM

i hear a persistent regular hampster heartbeat with a bit of umph on the first of the eight beats. if i don't hear that umph at a regular pace - i automatically don't like it. the reason - is that it seems to me that beethoven was building upon this basic fundamental 'beat' and making it into a 'fantasmic' thing like the emperor concerto. as i hear it - one should take complete charge of the piece at the very beginning. then, you have to prove you can ride this horse all the way through without slowing down too terribly much and not showing any signs of fatigue. i find it semi-donquixotic. you're either crazy to play it - or the piece turns crazy while you play it - but in any case - you can get stuck in it's windmill and actually enjoy the crazy pleasure it brings.

ps i don't like it too fast either. moderately fast seems better.

if i were to put a video to the thing - i would have the hampster completely flip on his wheel at every second high five finger alternation.

you could also mentally picture this piece as someone who ate a plate of aphrodesiacal food (ie a lot of hot peppers) and goes ballistic.

Wow, that is perhaps the best description of this piece I have ever heard!

I will agree with the first couple of posters; I also like the Gilels recording, and I have heard a great deal of Waldsteins. Of course, I will not discount the possibility that I am biased, given that the Gilels was the first recording I ever heard, when I was quite young. But listening to it now, I do sense a certain drive in Gilels' playing (i.e. hampster heartbeat

) that I don't always hear in performances of this piece.

Logged

cellodude

PS Silver Member
Full Member
Posts: 110

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #8 on: August 07, 2007, 12:24:06 PM

Nobody mentioned Horowitz? I thought he was pretty good.

[puts on fire-retardant underwear]

OK! I'm ready

Logged

Cello, cello, mellow fellow!

counterpoint

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2003

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #9 on: August 07, 2007, 04:31:30 PM

Quote from: pianistimo on August 04, 2007, 05:29:53 PM

i hear a persistent regular hampster heartbeat with a bit of umph on the first of the eight beats.

Oh, sorry, but I don't want to think about hampsters when listening to Waldstein Sonata

Logged

If it doesn't work - try something different!

gerry

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 658

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #10 on: August 07, 2007, 09:41:45 PM

Those damned octave glissandi...

Logged

Durch alle Töne tönet
Im bunten Erdentraum
Ein leiser Ton gezogen
Für den, der heimlich lauschet.

jlh

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2352

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #11 on: August 07, 2007, 10:11:42 PM

Has anyone heard Brazilian pianist Caio Pagano play this?

https://www.public.asu.edu/~pagano/sound_samples1/beethoven_track05.mpg

The whole thing isn't uploaded... I think they want you to buy the disc.

The first portion is very good though IMHO.

Logged

. ROFL : ROFL:LOL:ROFL : ROFL '
___/\___
L   ______/    \
LOL "”””””””\    [ ] \
L      \_________)
   ___I___I___/

soliloquy

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1464

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #12 on: August 07, 2007, 11:40:04 PM

Rudolf Serkin

Logged

mcgillcomposer

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 839

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #13 on: August 08, 2007, 02:21:03 AM

Quote from: gerry on August 07, 2007, 09:41:45 PM

Those damned octave glissandi...

You don't have to play them as glissandi. I've heard a few recordings where they are just played very quickly in octaves...it actually sounds more 'in-tune' with the rest of the piece; after all, Beethoven did NOT write gliss. in the manuscript.

Logged

Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

pita bread

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1136

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #14 on: August 08, 2007, 04:33:06 AM

Paul Jacobs

Logged

mikebechstein

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 64

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #15 on: August 16, 2007, 01:53:07 PM

Hi Guys,

I’ll try Gilels, Moiseiwitsch, Schnabel, and Serkin. I haven’t heard Solomon either, (except in the late sonatas), so I might giver him a whirl too.

Thanks for your input.

Mike

Logged

Più Vivo

imbetter

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1264

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #16 on: August 16, 2007, 02:01:23 PM

horowitz's defiantly isnt bad

Logged

"My advice to young musicians: Quit music! There is no choice. It has to be a calling, and even if it is and you think there's a choice, there is no choice"-Vladimir Feltsman

hwangs

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 56

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #17 on: August 16, 2007, 04:56:21 PM

I dont know how nobody mentioned Garrick Ohlsson!! I generally love his interpretation of Beethoven Sonatas-- Definitely give it a try (though some people think it's too "slow"). Particularly the interpretation of the 3rd mvt is really nice. I also like Pollini's interpretation, though Ohlsson really makes the keys sing (i think)

Logged

houseofblackleaves

PS Silver Member
Full Member
Posts: 205

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #18 on: August 16, 2007, 05:15:43 PM

ARGERICH I SAY!

Logged

etudes

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 809

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #19 on: August 17, 2007, 12:04:30 PM

Gilels

Richter didnt want to record waldstein or play in public because this world already has gilels

Logged

Piano = my life
My life = piano

acha114

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 49

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #20 on: August 18, 2007, 02:50:33 AM

Anyone heard Dubravka Tomsic play the Waldstein? In the first movement, it's really fast compared to other interpretations, especially the repeating notes in the opening bars. Not sure if its supposed to be played that fast. Anyone heard her playing it before?

Logged

furtwaengler

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1357

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #21 on: August 18, 2007, 06:18:18 AM

Quote from: acha114 on August 18, 2007, 02:50:33 AM

Anyone heard Dubravka Tomsic play the Waldstein? In the first movement, it's really fast compared to other interpretations, especially the repeating notes in the opening bars. Not sure if its supposed to be played that fast. Anyone heard her playing it before?

Dubravka Tomsic is a fantastic and exciting musician. I remember Artur Rubinstein raved about her playing in his memoirs...I think he mentioned the most exciting Mephisto Waltz he experienced, or something to that effect. She can be found on many super budget labels, which, for price is a plus.

I rarely listen to the Waldstein, though I have quite a few recordings and do enjoy it when I put it on. There's a live account of Emil Gilel's that's quite fine, and I like Arrau's earlier recording. Barenboim's DG recording is exciting, but I can imagine the earlier EMI, recorded when he was in his mid 20's, might be even more so (listen to his early Diabelli Variations!). I have Solomon, but have not yet listened. R. Serkin is wild. Horowitz is as Horowitz does...both hair raising and eyebrow raising; his dynamic range *is* worth the experience. I love Yves Nats and hope I'm not in the minority. There's lots to choose from; I've written some.

Logged

Don't let anyone know where you tie your goat.

goldentone

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1689

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #22 on: September 04, 2007, 05:25:40 AM

My favorite is Radu Lupu's on London. It's with Moonlight and Pathetique. I think it's just
great. He does a wonderful job of conveying the grandeur and transcendental nature of the final movement.

Logged

For in that sleep of death what dreams may come

m

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1107

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #23 on: September 04, 2007, 06:02:06 AM

Quote from: pianistimo on August 04, 2007, 05:29:53 PM

i'll play it for you - the way it should be played. at least the way i think it should be played.

I am anxious to hear that!
What can be better than the way our dear Susan thinks it should be played....

Logged

lohshuhan

Jr. Member
Posts: 74

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #24 on: September 05, 2007, 10:02:50 AM

try Ronald Smith...

he was supposed to play the Waldstein back in Singapore, but he passed away 2 weeks before the performance... i heard he was famous for it..

Logged

kelly_kelly

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 831

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #25 on: September 06, 2007, 10:07:39 PM

I would love to have a really great recording of Waldstein (which is, if not the greatest sonata, definitely my personal favorite). Unfortunately, my budget for music is tight, so I've been making do with the best free recording I've found on the web, which can be found here https://www.jmc.co.il/musicfile.asp?mid=10 . Since I am able to buy so little music, can someone tell me which recordings are significantly better than the one I have?

Logged

It all happens on Discworld, where greed and ignorance influence human behavior... and perfectly ordinary people occasionally act like raving idiots.

A world, in short, totally unlike our own.

kevink

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 88

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #26 on: September 11, 2007, 02:35:16 PM

Quote from: mcgillcomposer on August 08, 2007, 02:21:03 AM

You don't have to play them as glissandi. I've heard a few recordings where they are just played very quickly in octaves...it actually sounds more 'in-tune' with the rest of the piece; after all, Beethoven did NOT write gliss. in the manuscript.

Yes, he did. His fingering markings for the scales are 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, etc. There isn't a way to play that fast enough unless you glissando. It was much easier on Beethoven's piano than on most modern-day pianos.

My favorite recording is Daniel Barenboim's. (He does not play the octaves in glissandi by the way)

Logged

mcgillcomposer

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 839

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #27 on: September 12, 2007, 02:19:58 AM

Quote from: kevink on September 11, 2007, 02:35:16 PM

Yes, he did. His fingering markings for the scales are 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, etc. There isn't a way to play that fast enough unless you glissando. It was much easier on Beethoven's piano than on most modern-day pianos.

My favorite recording is Daniel Barenboim's. (He does not play the octaves in glissandi by the way)

...right

and if you were to finger them to not be played as glissandi, how would you do it? Glissandi is not indicated.

Too fast? Check out the metronome marking of the Hammerklavier...plus, music isn't played strictly in time like a machine would do it. There is a lot to be said for the physical/psychological impact of a gesture, and micropauses which is related to the natural breath of music.

Logged

Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

pita bread

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1136

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #28 on: September 12, 2007, 06:05:27 AM

Quote from: kevink on September 11, 2007, 02:35:16 PM

Yes, he did. His fingering markings for the scales are 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, etc.

Um... 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, etc is standard fingering for white key octave scales.

Logged

mcgillcomposer

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 839

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #29 on: September 12, 2007, 11:41:49 AM

Quote from: pita bread on September 12, 2007, 06:05:27 AM

Um... 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, etc is standard fingering for white key octave scales.

I agree, but if he had not wanted i played as a gliss., what fingering would he have used? 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, still seems to be the only viable solution. In essence, there is a reason why disagreement arises due to this passage; it is not clear.

Logged

Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

webern78

PS Silver Member
Full Member
Posts: 214

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #30 on: September 12, 2007, 01:19:41 PM

Gilels and Zimemrnan's live version are my favored.

Logged

pita bread

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1136

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #31 on: September 13, 2007, 02:05:19 AM

Quote from: mcgillcomposer on September 12, 2007, 11:41:49 AM

I agree, but if he had not wanted i played as a gliss., what fingering would he have used? 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, still seems to be the only viable solution. In essence, there is a reason why disagreement arises due to this passage; it is not clear.

Every time I hear these scales done as glissandi, it ruins the performance for me.

Logged

avetma

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 331

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #32 on: September 13, 2007, 04:51:42 AM

On Beethoven's piano it was easy to do octave glissando on that place.

Logged

mcgillcomposer

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 839

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #33 on: September 13, 2007, 09:50:10 AM

Quote from: pita bread on September 13, 2007, 02:05:19 AM

Every time I hear these scales done as glissandi, it ruins the performance for me.

I agree. It really doesn't fit with the preceding and following measures...

Logged

Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

anie

PS Silver Member
Newbie
Posts: 16

Re: Good Waldstein

Reply #34 on: September 14, 2007, 03:34:04 AM

There are too full audios online currently that show Nelson Freire's live performance of this
work from two recitals.

The one from Verbier Film Festival. In high-def video at either 300kbps or 1200kbps,
it is streamable from https://medici-arts.tv until the end of September and includes
works by Bach, Beethoven, Franck, Debussy. and Albeniz as well. Click on
the July 25 box to see the entire recital. They use Flash streaming and it does
require Fast Internet. But videos online usually do.

Cliburn Organization just uploaded Freire's Waldstein from April 9, 2007 at Bass Hall
in Fort Worth, Texas. This is viewable at https://tinyurl.com/2bgmoj

I hope some enjoy the Verbier (the rest of it too) as much as I did.

- Andrys
https://www.andrys.com

Logged

Hobbyist - intermediate level (SoundCloud)
Enjoy both digital and acoustic pianos

Sign-up to post reply

Pages: [1] Go Up

For more information about this topic, click search below!

Piano Street Magazine:
The Complete Piano Works of 16 Composers

Piano Street’s digital sheet music library is constantly growing. With the additions made during the past months, we now offer the complete solo piano works by sixteen of the most famous Classical, Romantic and Impressionist composers in the web’s most pianist friendly user interface. Read more

Piano Forum

Topic: Good Waldstein (Read 8157 times)

Piano Street Magazine:The Complete Piano Works of 16 Composers

Piano Street Magazine:
The Complete Piano Works of 16 Composers