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Good Waldstein (Read 6298 times)

Offline mikebechstein

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Good Waldstein
« on: August 04, 2007, 08:47:36 AM »
Hi,

Can anybody help me?

I have never yet found a recording of Walstein that fully satisfies me and it is one of my favourite pieces. My favourite interpretation, that I have, on disc is Walter Gieseking (despite his rushed first movement.) I also have copies of Arrau (fairly modern recording but I can’t remember the date), Brendel (digital), Kempff (last recording), and Paul Lewis.

Could anybody suggest any great recordings, bearing in mind that I like Gieseking’s approach (in a way similar to Cortot in Schumann in that the music and its meaning are more important than the notes.)

Thanks,

Mike
Più Vivo

piano sheet music of Sonata 21 (Waldstein)


Offline avetma

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #1 on: August 04, 2007, 09:30:36 AM »
I don't know about Gieseking's approach, but I do know that I like Gilels interpretation very much.

Offline nicco

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #2 on: August 04, 2007, 09:34:27 AM »
Gilels is probably my favourite as well.
"Without music, life would be a mistake." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline thalberg

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #3 on: August 04, 2007, 09:42:55 AM »
I have Richard Goode's recording of Waldstein, and it's NOT great.  So I can't tell you which is best, but I can tell you not to waste your money on that one.

Offline mcgillcomposer

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #4 on: August 04, 2007, 10:24:15 AM »
I have Richard Goode's recording of Waldstein, and it's NOT great.  So I can't tell you which is best, but I can tell you not to waste your money on that one.
Hell...it's not even "Goode"...  ;D

*dodges tomatoes
Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #5 on: August 04, 2007, 05:29:53 PM »
i'll play it for you - the way it should be played.  at least the way i think it should be played.  actually, you can probably play it the way you want to hear it too.  i think for some pieces - you just have to play them yourself to be fully satisfied.

i hear a persistent regular hampster heartbeat with a bit of umph on the first of the eight beats.  if i don't hear that umph at a regular pace - i automatically don't like it.  the reason - is that it seems to me that beethoven was building upon this basic fundamental 'beat' and making it into a 'fantasmic' thing like the emperor concerto.  as i hear it - one should take complete charge of the piece at the very beginning.  then, you have to prove you can ride this horse all the way through without slowing down too terribly much and not showing any signs of fatigue.   i find it semi-donquixotic.  you're either crazy to play it - or the piece turns crazy while you play it - but in any case - you can get stuck in it's windmill and actually enjoy the crazy pleasure it brings.

ps i don't like it too fast either.  moderately fast seems better.

if i were to put a video to the thing - i would have the hampster completely flip on his wheel at every second high five finger alternation.

you could also mentally picture this piece as someone who ate a plate of aphrodesiacal food (ie a lot of hot peppers) and goes ballistic.

Offline jakev2.0

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #6 on: August 04, 2007, 05:37:53 PM »
All superb recordings: Hofmann, Moiseiwitsch, Schnabel.

Offline getcool

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #7 on: August 06, 2007, 06:52:53 AM »
i hear a persistent regular hampster heartbeat with a bit of umph on the first of the eight beats.  if i don't hear that umph at a regular pace - i automatically don't like it.  the reason - is that it seems to me that beethoven was building upon this basic fundamental 'beat' and making it into a 'fantasmic' thing like the emperor concerto.  as i hear it - one should take complete charge of the piece at the very beginning.  then, you have to prove you can ride this horse all the way through without slowing down too terribly much and not showing any signs of fatigue.   i find it semi-donquixotic.  you're either crazy to play it - or the piece turns crazy while you play it - but in any case - you can get stuck in it's windmill and actually enjoy the crazy pleasure it brings.

ps i don't like it too fast either.  moderately fast seems better.

if i were to put a video to the thing - i would have the hampster completely flip on his wheel at every second high five finger alternation.

you could also mentally picture this piece as someone who ate a plate of aphrodesiacal food (ie a lot of hot peppers) and goes ballistic.

Wow, that is perhaps the best description of this piece I have ever heard!  ;D

I will agree with the first couple of posters; I also like the Gilels recording, and I have heard a great deal of Waldsteins.  Of course, I will not discount the possibility that I am biased, given that the Gilels was the first recording I ever heard, when I was quite young.  But listening to it now, I do sense a certain drive in Gilels' playing (i.e. hampster heartbeat :)) that I don't always hear in performances of this piece.

Offline cellodude

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #8 on: August 07, 2007, 12:24:06 PM »
Nobody mentioned Horowitz? I thought he was pretty good.

[puts on fire-retardant underwear]

OK! I'm ready  :D

DL
Cello, cello, mellow fellow!

Offline counterpoint

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #9 on: August 07, 2007, 04:31:30 PM »
i hear a persistent regular hampster heartbeat with a bit of umph on the first of the eight beats. 

Oh, sorry, but I don't want to think about hampsters when listening to Waldstein Sonata  :D  8)
If it doesn't work - try something different!

Offline gerry

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #10 on: August 07, 2007, 09:41:45 PM »
Those damned octave glissandi... :P
Durch alle Töne tönet
Im bunten Erdentraum
Ein leiser Ton gezogen
Für den, der heimlich lauschet.

Offline jlh

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #11 on: August 07, 2007, 10:11:42 PM »
Has anyone heard Brazilian pianist Caio Pagano play this?

http://www.public.asu.edu/~pagano/sound_samples1/beethoven_track05.mpg

The whole thing isn't uploaded... I think they want you to buy the disc. 

The first portion is very good though IMHO.
. ROFL : ROFL:LOL:ROFL : ROFL '
                 ___/\___
  L   ______/             \
LOL "”””””””\         [ ] \
  L              \_________)
                 ___I___I___/

Offline soliloquy

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #12 on: August 07, 2007, 11:40:04 PM »
Rudolf Serkin

Offline mcgillcomposer

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #13 on: August 08, 2007, 02:21:03 AM »
Those damned octave glissandi... :P
You don't have to play them as glissandi. I've heard a few recordings where they are just played very quickly in octaves...it actually sounds more 'in-tune' with the rest of the piece; after all, Beethoven did NOT write gliss. in the manuscript.
Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

Offline pita bread

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #14 on: August 08, 2007, 04:33:06 AM »
Paul Jacobs  8)

Offline mikebechstein

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #15 on: August 16, 2007, 01:53:07 PM »
Hi Guys,

I’ll try Gilels, Moiseiwitsch, Schnabel, and Serkin. I haven’t heard Solomon either, (except in the late sonatas), so I might giver him a whirl too.

Thanks for your input.

Mike
Più Vivo

Offline imbetter

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #16 on: August 16, 2007, 02:01:23 PM »
horowitz's defiantly isnt bad
"My advice to young musicians: Quit music! There is no choice. It has to be a calling, and even if it is and you think there's a choice, there is no choice"-Vladimir Feltsman

Offline hwangs

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #17 on: August 16, 2007, 04:56:21 PM »
I dont know how nobody mentioned Garrick Ohlsson!! I generally love his interpretation of Beethoven Sonatas-- Definitely give it a try (though some people think it's too "slow"). Particularly the interpretation of the 3rd mvt is really nice. I also like Pollini's interpretation, though Ohlsson really makes the keys sing (i think)  :P

Offline houseofblackleaves

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #18 on: August 16, 2007, 05:15:43 PM »
ARGERICH I SAY!

Offline etudes

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #19 on: August 17, 2007, 12:04:30 PM »
Gilels  8) Richter didnt want to record waldstein or play in public because this world already has gilels
Piano = my life
My life = piano

Offline acha114

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #20 on: August 18, 2007, 02:50:33 AM »
Anyone heard Dubravka Tomsic play the Waldstein? In the first movement, it's really fast compared to other interpretations, especially the repeating notes in the opening bars. Not sure if its supposed to be played that fast. Anyone heard her playing it before?

Offline furtwaengler

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #21 on: August 18, 2007, 06:18:18 AM »
Anyone heard Dubravka Tomsic play the Waldstein? In the first movement, it's really fast compared to other interpretations, especially the repeating notes in the opening bars. Not sure if its supposed to be played that fast. Anyone heard her playing it before?
Dubravka Tomsic is a fantastic and exciting musician. I remember Artur Rubinstein raved about her playing in his memoirs...I think he mentioned the most exciting Mephisto Waltz he experienced, or something to that effect. She can be found on many super budget labels, which, for price is a plus.

I rarely listen to the Waldstein, though I have quite a few recordings and do enjoy it when I put it on. There's a live account of Emil Gilel's that's quite fine, and I like Arrau's earlier recording. Barenboim's DG recording is exciting, but I can imagine the earlier EMI, recorded when he was in his mid 20's, might be even more so (listen to his early Diabelli Variations!). I have Solomon, but have not yet listened. R. Serkin is wild. Horowitz is as Horowitz does...both hair raising and eyebrow raising; his dynamic range *is* worth the experience. I love Yves Nats and hope I'm not in the minority. There's lots to choose from; I've written some.
Don't let anyone know where you tie your goat.

Offline goldentone

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #22 on: September 04, 2007, 05:25:40 AM »
My favorite is Radu Lupu's on London.  It's with Moonlight and Pathetique.  I think it's just
great.  He does a wonderful job of conveying the grandeur and transcendental nature of the final movement.
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come

Offline m

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #23 on: September 04, 2007, 06:02:06 AM »
i'll play it for you - the way it should be played.  at least the way i think it should be played. 

I am anxious to hear that!
What can be better than the way our dear Susan thinks it should be played.... 8)






Offline lohshuhan

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #24 on: September 05, 2007, 10:02:50 AM »
try Ronald Smith... 

he was supposed to play the Waldstein back in Singapore, but he passed away 2 weeks before the performance...  i heard he was famous for it.. 

Offline kelly_kelly

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #25 on: September 06, 2007, 10:07:39 PM »
I would love to have a really great recording of Waldstein (which is, if not the greatest sonata, definitely my personal favorite). Unfortunately, my budget for music is tight, so I've been making do with the best free recording I've found on the web, which can be found here http://www.jmc.co.il/musicfile.asp?mid=10 .  Since I am able to buy so little music, can someone tell me which recordings are significantly better than the one I have?
It all happens on Discworld, where greed and ignorance influence human behavior... and perfectly ordinary people occasionally act like raving idiots.

A world, in short, totally unlike our own.

Offline kevink

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #26 on: September 11, 2007, 02:35:16 PM »
You don't have to play them as glissandi. I've heard a few recordings where they are just played very quickly in octaves...it actually sounds more 'in-tune' with the rest of the piece; after all, Beethoven did NOT write gliss. in the manuscript.

Yes, he did.  His fingering markings for the scales are 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, etc.  There isn't a way to play that fast enough unless you glissando.  It was much easier on Beethoven's piano than on most modern-day pianos. 

My favorite recording is Daniel Barenboim's.  (He does not play the octaves in glissandi by the way)

Offline mcgillcomposer

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #27 on: September 12, 2007, 02:19:58 AM »
Yes, he did.  His fingering markings for the scales are 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, etc.  There isn't a way to play that fast enough unless you glissando.  It was much easier on Beethoven's piano than on most modern-day pianos. 

My favorite recording is Daniel Barenboim's.  (He does not play the octaves in glissandi by the way)
...right

and if you were to finger them to not be played as glissandi, how would you do it? Glissandi is not indicated.

Too fast? Check out the metronome marking of the Hammerklavier...plus, music isn't played strictly in time like a machine would do it. There is a lot to be said for the physical/psychological impact of a gesture, and micropauses which is related to the natural breath of music.
Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

Offline pita bread

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #28 on: September 12, 2007, 06:05:27 AM »
Yes, he did.  His fingering markings for the scales are 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, etc. 

Um... 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, etc is standard fingering for white key octave scales.

Offline mcgillcomposer

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #29 on: September 12, 2007, 11:41:49 AM »
Um... 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, etc is standard fingering for white key octave scales.
I agree, but if he had not wanted i played as a gliss., what fingering would he have used? 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, still seems to be the only viable solution. In essence, there is a reason why disagreement arises due to this passage; it is not clear.
Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

Offline webern78

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #30 on: September 12, 2007, 01:19:41 PM »
Gilels and Zimemrnan's live version are my favored.

Offline pita bread

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #31 on: September 13, 2007, 02:05:19 AM »
I agree, but if he had not wanted i played as a gliss., what fingering would he have used? 5-1, 5-1, 5-1, still seems to be the only viable solution. In essence, there is a reason why disagreement arises due to this passage; it is not clear.

Every time I hear these scales done as glissandi, it ruins the performance for me.

Offline avetma

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #32 on: September 13, 2007, 04:51:42 AM »
On Beethoven's piano it was easy to do octave glissando on that place.

Offline mcgillcomposer

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #33 on: September 13, 2007, 09:50:10 AM »
Every time I hear these scales done as glissandi, it ruins the performance for me.
I agree. It really doesn't fit with the preceding and following measures...
Asked if he had ever conducted any Stockhausen,Sir Thomas Beecham replied, "No, but I once trod in some."

Offline anie

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Re: Good Waldstein
«Reply #34 on: September 14, 2007, 03:34:04 AM »
There are too full audios online currently that show Nelson Freire's live performance of this
work from two recitals.

The one from Verbier Film Festival.  In high-def video at either 300kbps or 1200kbps,
it is streamable from http://medici-arts.tv until the end of September and includes
works by Bach, Beethoven, Franck, Debussy. and Albeniz as well.  Click on
the July 25 box to see the entire recital.  They use Flash streaming and it does
require Fast Internet.  But videos online usually do.

Cliburn Organization just uploaded Freire's Waldstein from April 9, 2007 at Bass Hall
in Fort Worth, Texas.  This is viewable at http://tinyurl.com/2bgmoj

I hope some enjoy the Verbier (the rest of it too) as much as I did.

 - Andrys
http://www.andrys.com




Hobbyist - intermediate level (SoundCloud)
Enjoy both digital and acoustic pianos