Which do you think there is more value in spending time in pursuit of

[rc]

I mean, Jake thinks Hamelin has a poor technique.
If he intends to play every note as he does, then he really has *perfect* technique!

What strikes me everytime I've heard Hamelin on the radio is the transparency of the piano, all I hear is the bare music and I love it.  It only occurs to me afterwards "wow, impressive fingerwork!".

I was avoiding this slew of speed threads but what the hell I could play along

Either way a person has to develop both.  The hypothetical 'technician' will eventually reach a point where they're no longer interested/challenged by that pursuit so they wonder what next?  and find more subtle, subjective expressions (musicality)...  The musicality player will eventually get tired of technical limitations and wind up focusing on them instead.  I couldn't see somebody going too far in either direction without having to balance it out.

They'd be two paths towards awesome.

My intention is to share musical enjoyment with regular people, who wouldn't know the difference between a technically hard piece and something easy.  So from my end of the path Op10 is nuts.  (personal triumph: the other day I finally got to play for some friends and got genuine applause!)

Doesn't matter anyhow...  I lack music and the technique to pull it off   Time to practice.  Soon I'll be in a home without free internet or cable with enough space to actually live in the same place as my piano.  Exciting!

[rc]

Oh, I've been exploring philosophy some more to see if it has any use.  Here's a thought from Schopenhauer for our hypothetical musician and technician:


That which distinguishes genius, and should be the standard for
judging it, is the height to which it is able to soar when it is in
the proper mood and finds a fitting occasion--a height always out
of the reach of ordinary talent. And, in like manner, it is a very
dangerous thing to compare two great men of the same class; for
instance, two great poets, or musicians, or philosophers, or artists;
because injustice to the one or the other, at least for the moment,
can hardly be avoided. For in making a comparison of the kind the
critic looks to some particular merit of the one and at once discovers
that it is absent in the other, who is thereby disparaged. And then
if the process is reversed, and the critic begins with the latter and
discovers his peculiar merit, which is quite of a different order from
that presented by the former, with whom it may be looked for in vain,
the result is that both of them suffer undue depreciation.

[term]

Noone knows everything, but it's fair to say that people in the upper percentiles of the population are 'wise'.

Theres a difference (a huge one actually) between you calling yourself wise and other people calling you wise.
And then, it depens on who calls you wise.
Wise is a very vague word, as you most probably do not have the wisdom of a simple farmer or the wisdom of an ingenious physicist.

Let's meet in the middle, and i think rc already said all that is left to say about this topic:

Either way a person has to develop both.  The hypothetical 'technician' will eventually reach a point where they're no longer interested/challenged by that pursuit so they wonder what next?  and find more subtle, subjective expressions (musicality)...  The musicality player will eventually get tired of technical limitations and wind up focusing on them instead.  I couldn't see somebody going too far in either direction without having to balance it out.

This comes closest to what can be called the truth 

[opus10no2]

Well, rc describes what is applicable for most pianists, I suppose.

But if a pianist is passionate about the pursuit of finger speed, it is a discipline which falls by the wayside quicker than other virtues.

[opus10no2]

Working on 'musicality' is about changing(or refining) what you want to do.

Working on technique is about changing what you are actually able to do.

Unless one has an absolutely perfect technique, would it not be best to imagine what you wish to do away from the piano, and then pursue that 'vision'.

Well, just like any recording can expand one's imagination with regards to what is possible with a piece, physically playing the piano can too, exploring what is possible, and sometimes accidentally creating things.
Funnily enough, one would need a thoroughly imperfect technique to do this 


After all is said, I believe technique and objective skills take more concious time and discipline to work on.
It may be so, that to form a mature interpretation of a piece, one has to know it well, but does this have to come from concious exploration of musical possibilities? Or incidentally through repeated exposition while either listening or working on technique?

Well...both, focus and freedom, decisiveness and open-mindedness, settling on a home and exploring.

Anyway, I think this covers working on creativity, and musical technique.

But I still think working on velocity alone should be a seperable pursuit for those wanting to have abilities with less limits.

[counterpoint]

You may improve your chromatic scales for as long as you want - it will not help you to understand music better   

[opus10no2]

Music is understood by listening to it.

Improving chromatic scales will enhance the performers technical ability.

What's your point?

[franzliszt2]

Piano is all about pursuing music surely? Technique is not pursued, you just use the technique to produce the music. Therefore music is all we pursue. If you can't play a passage fast enough, you work on it, to acieve  musical goal. If you work on it for the technique just quit and join a gym and take up running!

[forester]

That's right. He'll be blaming the Jews for everything that's wrong with Germany next.

[amelialw]

i think technique and musicality go together but they can be separated. for example good technique but no musicality, look at asian pianists.

it's true, this is a racist statement...it does not apply to all asian pianist. There are many pianists in general who have good technique but no musicality. and there are those who stand out because they have both.