The real deal

[pianistimo]

it's an opening and closing chord in 'a minor' even though E is the favored note in the piece.  being a i 6/4 ties it in with the E nicely.

[pianowolfi]

in the key of a minor - the corni come in on E's?  it must be late.  i must need some rest.  i feed aggravated and egmonticzied.  (means i feel like smashing eggs).  somehow, the karijan video calmed me.  it actually is putting me to sleep.

 

egmonticzied is cool. listened to beethoven's "Egmont" ouverture?

[pianistimo]

not recently, i must admit.  the word just came to me.   

say, that u-tube of the 7th symphony being sightread was really great.  i listened all the way through and now i want to learn this liszt transcription. 

[mcgillcomposer]

Keep thinking away...I am going to torture with curiosity before  give the answer. It's a good teaching method btw for any teachers out there. 

[pianistimo]

sorry about yesterday.  i remember now, looking at some concertos and other things that were orchestral - and vaguely remember the discussion about transposed notes (although i rarely transposed the entire score in my head or on paper - unless it was 20 years ago).

ok.  so the thing about transposing - even without clefs for instrumentation - is well taken.  so...we look at the liszt transcription - since it is already transposed correctly.  think think think.

[pianowolfi]

However, I find these questions VERY interesting and would like to read and post a lot of them, though I'd like to throw accidental confettis on you because you are torturing us with curiosity and therefore I felt somehow like making fun of it (of course in good humour always ) in the ps Kindergarten. Keep it going! I keep thinking.

[mcgillcomposer]

OK, I'll give the answer to the first question re: the spacing of the opening chord in the clarinets and oboes.

The textbook spacing would have one cross the voices so that they blend better. So, in order from highest note to lowest you would have as follows: oboe 1, clarinet 1, oboe 2, clarinet 2.

Beethoven has not crossed the instruments. Now, with this information, think about what kind of effect is achieved with this rather unusual voicing.

[pianowolfi]

*thinking*

[mcgillcomposer]

Come on people...guess!!! 

You'll never learn unless you try to figure it out for yourself.

LEARN LEARN LEARN

[pianowolfi]

*thinking*

[thalberg]

Hahaha....we discussed this exact chord for like 20 minutes in my Beethoven Symphonies class.  Something about a large scale relationship between E and F, and lots of other stuff I forgot, like what you said about the voicing of the instruments.  The teacher laid it all out, but I can't remember now

Okay so tell us.....looks like people are giving up, and I need a refresher.

[mcgillcomposer]

Hahaha....we discussed this exact chord for like 20 minutes in my Beethoven Symphonies class.  Something about a large scale relationship between E and F, and lots of other stuff I forgot, like what you said about the voicing of the instruments.  The teacher laid it all out, but I can't remember now

Okay so tell us.....looks like people are giving up, and I need a refresher.

Any large-scale relationship of the type you are talking (often seen in Schenkerian analysis) are not usually very audible. They are fine and dandy in theory, but they do not reflect our auditory experience. The chord in question does something that has a very obvious function in retrospect.