Advice appreciated

[emill]

Hi there,

Would appreciate some comments on these Bachs -

and on this Albeniz -

As a background:   My son is 11 years old and in a few months will be 12. 
He started on the piano in early 2005 (March-April) or 2 1/2 years ago. He
has a tutor and is consistent in his practise of about 2 hours a day.

Any constructive advice will be most appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.

[mcgillcomposer]

Hi there,

Would appreciate some comments on these Bachs -

and on this Albeniz -

As a background:   My son is 11 years old and in a few months will be 12. 
He started on the piano in early 2005 (March-April) or 2 1/2 years ago. He
has a tutor and is consistent in his practise of about 2 hours a day.

Any constructive advice will be most appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.

Firstly, very nice work, there are some nice things in terms of phrasing and articulation. I do, however, have one comment that applies to these works, as well as the other recordings of your son that I heard:

He needs to work on tone production. If you notice, he often makes a slight pumping motion with his hand that creates a rather harsh, and non-lyrical sound. This is a technique that can be applied to sections where the character requires an accented touch, but is by no means one that should be used universally.

There are various exercises one can do to develop a smoother tone that sings, and I suggest that you ask his teacher to work on this with him. It is much more difficult to produce a beautiful sound on the piano than it is to be a marvel of sheer technique.

[emill]

Yes, I have noticed that tendency to "pump" rather than be a little gentler.
They are working on it, but needs really some time ....thanks.. on this
important point. 

Could you please suggest the exercises?...

[mcgillcomposer]

Yes, I have noticed that tendency to "pump" rather than be a little gentler.
They are working on it, but needs really some time ....thanks.. on this
important point. 

Could you please suggest the exercises?...

Sure.

1) Take a short melodic passage and practice it while overlapping the adjacent notes. Make this overlap time less and less with several repetitions at each stage. This will give your son a strong physical connection...after all, the most important element of a singing line is the way in which each note is related to the next one. Once you have that mastered, you can start to work on the overall contour.

2) Take a phrase with two note harmonic intervals and voice to the top note while playing the lower note staccato. So, you want to produce a singing legato line over a staccato bass using only 1 hand.

3) Repeat the same exercise, but playing both notes of each chord non-legato. Still bring out the top voice and be very aware of the sound of one interval to the next. We don't want any huge bumps in the road, per se.

4) Pick a simple gesture that can be played in one hand. A good one to use is the opening triplet figure from the first movement of Beethoven's Op. 49 No. 2 (D-G-B-D-C-A-G). The idea is to play this from ONE impule with a very slight crescendo and descrescendo. It is difficult to explain this without showing you in person, but the entire 7 notes phrase should feel like a single gesture: an initial impulse (let the hand fall on the keyboard) and a release. When done properly, the motion should look almost circular with the elbow moving outward slightly as the phrase progresses. Do this exercise while slightly overlapping the successive notes. Reduce this overlap progressively with each repetition.

[lagin]

Mcgillcomposer, where did you learn this stuff?  You are the only one I have found that teaches the same exercises as my teacher! 

P.S. Just a note for the boy.  Watch that if he's doing his staccato notes with alot of force in the above exercises that he's relaxing completely after each one.  I don't mean taking his hand off the keyboard because he should still be holding the upper note.  I mean making sure all tension is gone before the next staccato.  Holding down notes with half of your hand and hitting things hard with the other half can lead to injury if you don't release the tension COMPLETELY (eg. shoulders, arms, wrists).  You only need enough weight left to hold the other note down.  It is an excellant exercise when done properly.  It is very slow going at first to release all the tension before the next note, but as you get better at quickly releasing it, you can take less time between notes.

[counterpoint]

In my opinion, the Bach is technically very good, but there is no inner participation. Some people think, Bach has to be played that way (emotional restricted, extreme cool and with no tempo modifications) - but I don't. There is so much fire and emotion in Bachs music, even in the Inventions!

A very good example for an emotional Bach playing is the following:

[emill]

Hi Counterpoint,

Yes, I think Bach should be expressive and I am confident that with
time enzo will be more mature and discerning.  As always, thank you for
the input and the link.

Hi Lagin,

As with the advice of Mcgillcomposer, I was scratching my head in confusion;
but Enzo seems to understand what he and you were trying to convey.  He
seems to have gone immediately "to the thick of the fight".    Thanks a lot.

[pianistimo]

wow.  i see a lot of improvement in enzo from last year to this year.  for one thing - he isn't crouching over (which will keep his back from getting pains).  and, he is very confident.  agreed with mcgillcomposer - but it isn't terrible (his lines).  what i don't hear is perhaps the softening of the lh when a part comes in.  bach intended each part to be heard - much like vocal singers when they perform.  they let each part have the 'spotlight.'  enzo does this a little bit - basically by making the part louder.  what he needs to do, imo, is keep the volume where it is at - and make the other voices softer.

also, (sorry if this seems picky) - i think that the phrasing can be spaced out more - giving a more relaxing feel to the listener.  for instance, when the end of a phrase comes - to do something with it that causes it to 'die away' and so you really notice when the next phrase begins (as a rebirth).  perhaps mostly for the major section phrasing - but less so for the line phrases. 

enzo might enjoy listening to the king singers.  they are so cool!  you get this 'feel' for voicing. 

[pianistimo]

i feel that enzo is sitting wayyy too close to the keyboard for the albeniz.  it is impacting his technique and making him appear more stiff than he actually is - and playing way too far into the keys (imo).  i could see him allowing the ornamentation of this piece to just flow out his fingers if he were back another 2-3 (including arms outstretching - not just fingers back)"  also, this allows the elbows more room and to be able to move beyond the side of one's body rather than be 'stationary.'  to move easily around.

as it was explained to me - the physics of the mechanic of the key to the action shows that the easiest place to strike the black keys with the least resistance is toward the tips.  not too much on the tips - but just slightly in.  same with white notes.  if he always plays in this 'weighlifting mode' at the other end of the keys - he'll tire himself out.

[mcgillcomposer]

Mcgillcomposer, where did you learn this stuff?  You are the only one I have found that teaches the same exercises as my teacher! 

A lot can be learned from observing great players and exercises can be derived from these observations.

There is actually a rather 'secret' (if I may use that term) school of piano playing that will allow one to play things never thought possible. The trouble is finding a teacher who knows of these techniques, because I assure you, they don't exist by the dozen.

[imbetter]

an often oven looked factor is the position of your body hands arms ect. it makes a great impact on the tone quality.

[jepoy]

There is actually a rather 'secret' (if I may use that term) school of piano playing that will allow one to play things never thought possible. The trouble is finding a teacher who knows of these techniques, because I assure you, they don't exist by the dozen.

hello mcgill, i'm rather intrigued by this "secret" school of piano... care to elaborate?

[mcgillcomposer]

hello mcgill, i'm rather intrigued by this "secret" school of piano... care to elaborate?

Sure, I don't mind describing a few things, but it is much better when demonstrated in person. There are several principles, each of which requires a fair amount of work. Here are a few:

- impulse...to take a simple example, use the opening of Beethoven's G major sonata, Op. 49 no. 2. One should play the opening triplet figures in a single impulse. In essence, gravity does a lot of the work for you; you shouldn't feel your fingers doing much work at all. The initial impulse of your hand on the keyboard should set the fingers in motion as an immediate reaction. It may seem trivial in this example, but wait until you get to something like the Brahms-Paganini variations.

- body rhythm...one must find an internal rhythm(s) to match the gestures one uses when playing a piece. These should both be informed by the details of the music (articulation, phrasing, etc.). At first, actually MOVE your body in and out in a quasi-circular motion (small circle in clockwise direction) to match these internal rhythms. For example, take the beginning of Beethoven's Bb major concerto. At the first piano entrance. IN for F E F D Bb F (closest point to the piano, F) F E F G A C Bb (the appogiatura C should be the closest point here) Bb A Bb C D F Eb (The F here should be closest), and so on. So, essentially, find a rhythm that makes you naturally emphasize (NOT accent) the notes indicated above (F, C, and F). This one is obviously better shown in person.

There are several more principles, but these two alone should make worlds of difference if you can master them.

[thalberg]

Mcgill, you're an impressive guy!  Very knowledgeable musician.   I may just have to come to Canada sometime and hang out with you...

Anyway, Mcgill is very right about this "secret" school of playing....I believe I met one teacher who knows the secrets, and her students were incredible.  About 3 got into Juilliard in the 6 years I knew her.

Many secrets are actually in books that no one ever reads.  Abby Whiteside's book talks about impulse and body rhythm so much you wouldn't believe it.  Seymour Fink, Otto Ortmann, and others give lots of secrets, too.  In my ten years as a music major, I never met anyone who actually read these books.  I just discovered them toward the end of my doctorate, and they made a huge difference just in the little time I had with them.  I would read them now, but I'm leaving the music profession.  They'd give anyone else a distinct advantage over the competition, though.

Warning: they are rather dense--bring your coffee.

[mcgillcomposer]

Many secrets are actually in books that no one ever reads.  Abby Whiteside's book talks about impulse and body rhythm so much you wouldn't believe it.  Seymour Fink, Otto Ortmann, and others give lots of secrets, too. 

YES YES YES! Just look out for the nonsense books...

[mcgillcomposer]

Mcgill, you're an impressive guy!  Very knowledgeable musician.   I may just have to come to Canada sometime and hang out with you...

Thanks...that's sweet of you to say. I would be more than happy to entertain you.

[jepoy]

Thanks Thal and Mcgill for the lead! I shall look into them. Also, would you know if there are videos out there that demonstrate these principles? Sometimes, it's difficult to follow the directions from the text (for example, I read Chang's book and tried implementing some of the techniques he described but I'm still not sure if I'm doing it the right way).

If you guys plan to put up some videos in youtube , or wherever, showing how it's done, please keep me posted. I'd appreciate it! Thanks again!