How far should I bend over to get along.

[kelly1995]

Several months ago I won a piano competition put on by our local symphony. First prize was a chance to appear as a soloist with the Orchestra. So , next month I will be performing  Mozart's piano concerto # 21 with them. We had our first rehearsal this week and the Maestro and I are not seeing eye to eye on a number of things. They are as follows.

1. I dont like his choice of tempo.  2. I would rather play my own Cadenza  that I wrote, rather than the one normally used. ( Yes I know, its better than mine, but it is not original).
3. In case there is an encore piece called for I want to play an original composition of my own, rather than something from the standard repertoire.

My teacher and Mother think that being only 12 years old, I should just listen to the Maestro and rely on his experience. They assure me when im older there will be plenty of chances to show off my own work.

Any thoughts on this . Should I just go along or what?

Final question is mostly for girls. My mom and I dont agree at all as to what I should wear.  She wants to look like im 8 years old and I want to look like, oh You know what I mean? Any of you have a similar experience and if so what did you do?

Thanks

[thierry13]

If you want my opinion, if you can admit Mozart's Cadenza is better than yours, play that one. I understand the will of a composer to get his own works known, but a Classical concert with a symphony is, IMO, definitely not the place to do so. People will judge you on your performance, and playinga really good performance of your own compositions will, in general, get a less good review than to play a top notch performance of an actual piece of classical music. You just won a competition, probably many important people will be there, and you better get the best impression as a pianist, not as a composer. It is true that the best impression you get at this concert, the more you have chances to be able to play your own compositions later. As of what to wear ... a formal dress will do the thing i guess ... just choose a nice, straigth one and it will be fine.

[quantum]

I admire anyone who ventures to write their own cadenzas.  In Mozart's time these were usually improvised on the spot, and sadly this is a rare occurrence in our time. 

Regarding tempo.  As a soloist you should have some say about the tempo chosen.  Arguably though the conductor may have larger picture of how you play and choose a tempo which best integrates soloist and orchestra.  You do have some control over tempo however, in sections where the piano predominantly leads the music.  You could push or stretch and a good conductor should follow if the orchestra plays a subservient or accompaniment role.  This works best if the soloist has a strong vision for the shape of the music and asserts an active leadership role when playing the music.

Another thing you could do is search for a less commonly played, but well written cadenza. 


In the case of encores I sometimes like to prepare a few contrasting pieces, and choose in the moment which best suits the mood of the concert.

For a best of both worlds, maybe play the standard cadenza and your composition for encore.  Or just improvise for an encore.

[sharon_f]

You're 12.  You won a local concerto competition. Be grateful you have the opportunity to play with an orchestra. I would listen to your Mom and your teacher.

As far as what to wear... Go onto youtube and look at what some of the 12 years old girls are wearing when performing. (Here's a dress that looks very nice and age appropriate.)
https://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2680588672804876794&q=mozart+piano+concerto&total=419&start=60&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=9

[pianowolfi]

Well since you said the cadenza you are supposed to play is not by Mozart (as far as I got it) I would say go for your own cadenza. I would find that much more interesting, as a listener.

As for the tempo choice, you might just discuss it again with the director and find a good solution. I mean it's not easy to argue with a director but if you have convincing reasons... why not. You are the soloist. (On the other hand, argueing with 12 year olds is also not easy, sometimes  )

As for the dress, I would say no, you should surely not look like an 8 year old  I am sure you have the taste to find something fancy and appropriate that doesn't serve the "child prodigy" cliché but supports your performer personality well.

Good luck!

[dmc]

Congratulations on winning the competition.  You have a terrific opportunity in front of you.

I think the maestro truly is trying to establish a setting where you can be the most successful.  Both at your performance and beyond.  Trust his judgement & experience. As someone else said, there may be other influential people there who can help you down the road so the best advice I can give is to work with him.  You will have many opportunities to perform your own cadenzas/works later but the key right now is to establish yourself first.  The best way to do that is as a pianist.  After all, that is what got you the chance to play this concert. Thats why I would recommend you play what the maestro wants.  What he thinks about you could affect your situation later (and that includes how easy you are to work with).  You don't want to get a reputation for being difficult.  As for the tempo, there may be some room to work with there.  Politely ask him if it would be possible to adjust as you like.  But don't expect to get everything you want.  As for the encore, I would prepare several pieces and make a choice when the time comes based on the audience and performance.

I know its frustrating to want to be able to do things a certain way and not get it, but thats life.  Particularly in the music business.  We don't always get what we want or when we want it so you have to compromise sometimes.  I'm sure you'll wow them.  Trust your mom & the maestro.  They truly want to help you make the best impression and their experience is valuable.  Use it.

Good luck !

[mcgillcomposer]

Wow - I know I may have a dirty mind at times...but come on man, you are just asking for it here. Have you ever seen the price is right? Let me give you some advice...

IF the price is right...

[soliloquy]

Best thread title ever.


*** the conductor's tempo; you won, so they HAVE to let you play.  So you play the tempo you want.
Play the Mozart Cadenza.
Encore your own piece.
Dress more sophisticatedly if you CAN.  Don't go in some tacky prom-dress thing.  And don't try to even remotely sexualize yourself via clothing choice.

[chopininov]

Please rephrase the thread title.

[arensky]

Several months ago I won a piano competition put on by our local symphony. First prize was a chance to appear as a soloist with the Orchestra. So , next month I will be performing  Mozart's piano concerto # 21 with them. We had our first rehearsal this week and the Maestro and I are not seeing eye to eye on a number of things. They are as follows.

These things happen...

1. I dont like his choice of tempo.

What are your differeing tempi, in metronome markings? I'll tell you what I think....

  2. I would rather play my own Cadenza  that I wrote, rather than the one normally used. ( Yes I know, its better than mine, but it is not original).

I don't think this concerto has an original cadenza so I don't see why you can't do your own; what cadenza are your authority figures recommending? BTW I always write my own cadenza if there isn't one by the composer except for Mozart's d minor, where people expect to hear the Beethoven cadenza. Last year I wrote cadenzas for the Mozart c minor and when I did Beethoven 1 some years ago I chose the unfinished Beethoven cadenza and put an extra page on it. I hope they let you use your own cadenza in this case.

3.

In case there is an encore piece called for I want to play an original composition of my own, rather than something from the standard repertoire.

That's pushing it a bit, why don't you play Ronda alla Turca or something like that? It will make more sense to the audience, which has probably been conditioned to expect standard rep, particularly for encores.

My teacher and Mother think that being only 12 years old, I should just listen to the Maestro and rely on his experience. They assure me when im older there will be plenty of chances to show off my own work.

Mom and your teacher have a point and it's often wise not to rock the boat. Would you like to play with this orchestra (and presumably this conductor) again? If so, you might want to keep quiet. 
I do think you should stick up for your cadenza. Let us know about the tempo; if a tempo is either too slow or to fast or just doesn't work for the soloist that can be fatal to a performance; hopefully the two of you can work that out.

Final question is mostly for girls. My mom and I dont agree at all as to what I should wear.  She wants to look like im 8 years old and I want to look like, oh You know what I mean? Any of you have a similar experience and if so what did you do?

I think the young lady in the vid that sharon_f posted is dressed appropriately and she doesn't look like she's a dressed like a little kid. BTW dresses (gowns  ) like that are standard attire for grown up female concert pianists; I say get used to them!

[kelly1995]

Thanks to everyone for your advice. That is except those that made some lame comment about the thread title. Grow up!

Just wanted to let you know how things worked out.  This whole thing is really about if you should be conserative and play it safe or take a chance and go for it. I Originally wanted to do the Brahms first piano concerto, but got talked out of it. Now the Masetro wants to take a conservative approach to the Mozart. My Teacher wants me to play a conservative piece for my encore and my Mom wants me to dress conservativly.  No way, I will play the Cadenza they want me to and I will go along with the Masertro on tempo for the first two movments. But I am going to insist on a much quicker tempo for the 3rd movment.   As suggested I looked at that video which showed that young girl playing the Mozart. Two things to say if I ever play like that I will give up the piano and take up knitting. And the poster was right thats what all the other young girls my age look like. Not going to happen. In fact I thought about it and I am going to wear a pants suite with a long waste coat and my hair pulled back.  Kinda of like a movie I saw onces of what Franz lizt looked like when he performed.

Lastly for my encore forget anything dainty. Ive decided on the Rachmaninov prelude 23 #5. Im finishing this thing with all guns blazing.  Im either going to set the place on fire on fall flat on my face.  But one thing im not going to do is play it conservately. Im going to take chances and push myself right to the very edge of what I can do.

Any additional comments would be welcome

Thanks, Kelly

[chopininov]

You sure you're 12? You don't talk like it...
But anyways, give 'em all you got. They won't know what's gonna hit them.

[richard black]

Haven't even read the other replies but I'd say you should put your foot down as hard as you dare about your own cadenza. Mozart would have done! On the other hand, if you feel the conductor might throw his toys out of the cot if you are too forceful, give in. Conductors are a funny lot....

And yeah, I see your point about not wanting to dress like an 8-year-old. Of course your mum wants you to be young forever, that's what mothers are for, but it's your gig!

[pianowolfi]

Thanks to everyone for your advice. That is except those that made some lame comment about the thread title. Grow up!

True!

Just wanted to let you know how things worked out.  This whole thing is really about if you should be conserative and play it safe or take a chance and go for it. I Originally wanted to do the Brahms first piano concerto, but got talked out of it. Now the Masetro wants to take a conservative approach to the Mozart. My Teacher wants me to play a conservative piece for my encore and my Mom wants me to dress conservativly.  No way, I will play the Cadenza they want me to and I will go along with the Masertro on tempo for the first two movments. But I am going to insist on a much quicker tempo for the 3rd movment.   As suggested I looked at that video which showed that young girl playing the Mozart. Two things to say if I ever play like that I will give up the piano and take up knitting. And the poster was right thats what all the other young girls my age look like. Not going to happen. In fact I thought about it and I am going to wear a pants suite with a long waste coat and my hair pulled back.  Kinda of like a movie I saw onces of what Franz lizt looked like when he performed.

Lastly for my encore forget anything dainty. Ive decided on the Rachmaninov prelude 23 #5. Im finishing this thing with all guns blazing.  Im either going to set the place on fire on fall flat on my face.  But one thing im not going to do is play it conservately. Im going to take chances and push myself right to the very edge of what I can do.

So cool (Though, I don't get what should be wrong with this girl's playing ) I hope you will post a video here

[sharon_f]

I Originally wanted to do the Brahms first piano concerto, but got talked out of it.

I'm confused. Weren't you the young lady who complained in another thread that your hands weren't large enough to play the Schnabel fingering for the "Appassionata"? And you wanted to perform the Brahms? 

[gyzzzmo]

I'm confused. Weren't you the young lady who complained in another thread that your hands weren't large enough to play the Schnabel fingering for the "Appassionata"? And you wanted to perform the Brahms? 

I made that link to and have to second on that confusion. Also i just cant believe that the one who wrote this thread is 12 and thus i wont make a serious reply.

[sharon_f]

I made that link to and have to second on that confusion. Also i just cant believe that the one who wrote this thread is 12 and thus i wont make a serious reply.

You're right. I think our collective legs are being pulled here.

[nyonyo]

This cannot be a 12 year old girl.

[jpowell]

a) conductors should learn to know their place. I think K467 is a *piano* concerto and not a *conductor*concerto. Mozart would not have used a conductor.

b) Mozart would probably not have used the phrase "cadenza" if the performer was to be allowed no license.

c) everyone should wear whatever they feel most comfortable playing in.

[ahinton]

a) conductors should learn to know their place. I think K467 is a *piano* concerto and not a *conductor*concerto. Mozart would not have used a conductor.

b) Mozart would probably not have used the phrase "cadenza" if the performer was to be allowed no license.

c) everyone should wear whatever they feel most comfortable playing in.

Three pieces of excellent and incontrovertible advice! Thanks! And let's make sure (as if we couldn't!) that neither of us (or indeed anyone else, for that matter) ever writes a concerto for conductor and orchestra...

Best,

Alistair