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Topic: Beethoven Op. 2 No. 1 - Allegro (Performance Practice)  (Read 3981 times)

Offline mcgillcomposer

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Beethoven Op. 2 No. 1 - Allegro (Performance Practice)
on: November 12, 2007, 12:07:09 PM
In an attempt to stray from the philosophically charged posts that occupy so much space on this forum, I would like to post something that focuses more on musical thinking.

I have heard many recordings and live performances of this work, and have noticed that some people choose to rit. leading into the fermata at the end of the first eight measures. Sometimes it is just in the last measure, but other times, the rit. occurs much earlier.

I know that many will say it is a question of interpretation, and I have no choice but to accept this. Nonetheless, I don't agree with it for many reasons and, in fact, think that it is simply incorrect to do a rit. at this particular place.

Please let me know what you think/do and give me a musical reason for your view.
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Offline mcgillcomposer

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Re: Beethoven Op. 2 No. 1 - Allegro (Performance Practice)
Reply #1 on: November 13, 2007, 11:26:23 AM
... are you guys serious ... no one has anything to say about this?
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Offline counterpoint

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Re: Beethoven Op. 2 No. 1 - Allegro (Performance Practice)
Reply #2 on: November 13, 2007, 11:31:31 AM
Quote from: mcgillcomposer on November 12, 2007, 12:07:09 PM
I know that many will say it is a question of interpretation, and I have no choice but to accept this. Nonetheless, I don't agree with it for many reasons and, in fact, think that it is simply incorrect to do a rit. at this particular place.

In 95% of all cases there is a rit before a fermata. And I do a rit. at this particular place as well.

Why not?
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Offline mcgillcomposer

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Re: Beethoven Op. 2 No. 1 - Allegro (Performance Practice)
Reply #3 on: November 13, 2007, 12:00:36 PM
Quote from: counterpoint on November 13, 2007, 11:31:31 AM
In 95% of all cases there is a rit before a fermata. And I do a rit. at this particular place as well.

Why not?
Well, this is just my view of course.

Firstly, Beethoven did not write one, and secondly, it ruins the urgency of the fermata. The phrase ends on the second beat after a dynamic roller coaster ride (p to ff and back to p in just 8 measures); obviously Beethoven was going for something sudden and tense. Doing a rit. eases the listener into it, which I think is the opposite of what the musical character dictates.

On the contrary to those who choose to do a rit. here, I also find that many people ignore the fermata over the quarter note rest. Anyway, this is off-topic from the original post.
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Offline counterpoint

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Re: Beethoven Op. 2 No. 1 - Allegro (Performance Practice)
Reply #4 on: November 13, 2007, 12:13:24 PM
I understand the beginnig of this Sonata as a contrast of absolute certainty and sudden doubting of this certainty after the ff chord. Then the whole movement keeps in this ambivalent state of certainty/uncertainty. The end of this movement is not certainty but uncertainty and defiance.
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Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: Beethoven Op. 2 No. 1 - Allegro (Performance Practice)
Reply #5 on: November 13, 2007, 09:04:24 PM
In my edition (which is Tovey; I believe this edition is not thought very highly of) there is a marking of pochiss rit in brackets. The brackets make me suspect it is an editorial decision. Interestingly, there is no rit marked at the parallel passage in the recapitulation. Certainly, when I played this sonata in my youth, I did do a small rit. Although I've not really played much early Beethoven in the past few years, if I was approaching the passage now, I would be very wary of overdoing the rit (or doing it at all). I think could come across as a romantic-era mannerism and perhaps stylistically inappropriate.
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Offline counterpoint

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Re: Beethoven Op. 2 No. 1 - Allegro (Performance Practice)
Reply #6 on: November 13, 2007, 09:16:05 PM
Quote from: ronde_des_sylphes on November 13, 2007, 09:04:24 PM
I would be very wary of overdoing the rit (or doing it at all). I think could come across as a romantic-era mannerism and perhaps stylistically inappropriate.

So you tell, you didn't play much early Beethoven, but you talk about "stylistically inappropriate"...  ::)

Did you have a teacher who said to you "every tempo change in Beethoven music is bad" or something like that?
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Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: Beethoven Op. 2 No. 1 - Allegro (Performance Practice)
Reply #7 on: November 13, 2007, 09:23:56 PM
No. I don't play much early Beethoven NOW. In my teens I probably played almost all the early sonatas. All I'm saying is that now I would be wary of importing something from Chopin and Liszt playing to early Beethoven. I would probably countenance a rit if it was discreet.
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Offline stringoverstrung

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Re: Beethoven Op. 2 No. 1 - Allegro (Performance Practice)
Reply #8 on: November 13, 2007, 10:07:53 PM
Mcgill,

i agree with you for the simple reason that in the urtext the fermata is on the rest and not on the note.
this means to me that you should treat the rest as a more sensitive point.

In his excellent book " an introduction to piano interpretation" Jaksa Zlatar even treats the fermata on rests in Beethoven sonatas on Page 70.  You should check it out it gives a lot of information on the interpretation of piano music in general. It's hard to find though.
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Offline mcgillcomposer

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Re: Beethoven Op. 2 No. 1 - Allegro (Performance Practice)
Reply #9 on: November 14, 2007, 04:20:21 PM
Quote from: stringoverstrung on November 13, 2007, 10:07:53 PM
Mcgill,

i agree with you for the simple reason that in the urtext the fermata is on the rest and not on the note.
this means to me that you should treat the rest as a more sensitive point.

In his excellent book " an introduction to piano interpretation" Jaksa Zlatar even treats the fermata on rests in Beethoven sonatas on Page 70.  You should check it out it gives a lot of information on the interpretation of piano music in general. It's hard to find though.

Great point - and thanks so much for the book suggestion. I checked it out of the library today.
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