scales and compositions

[tommy]

In mastering the piano do you think it best to do a lot of scales and formal exercises or just play established musical compositions by the great composers?
I know that a famous pianist,can't think of his name at the moment,said that formal exercises are bad for developing ones musical ability because they are souless.

[dj]

well i do scales and exercises as a warm up....im not really sure whether or not they have any actual technical value. i do not notice any parts of pieces that i play well and can consciously attribute to the practice of scales and exercises, however, i don't know what i would sound like if i didn't practice them. i have noticed that scales and arpeggios have helped to familiarize me with the various key signatures.

as a side note: is it really possible to fully "master" the piano?

[Hmoll]

I know that a famous pianist,can't think of his name at the moment,said that formal exercises are bad for developing ones musical ability because they are souless.

Only if you play them in a "souless" manner. Scales and arps. are not the same as exercises. Practiced musically in a variety of different ways they can improve your articulation, phrasing, sightreading, facility.

[bernhard]

There is another thread where this has been discussed:

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=teac;action=display;num=1060010829


Anyway, scales and arpeggios are essential, not so much as technical exercises but as a means to familiarise oneself with the concept of key, with the geography of the keyboard and with a system of fingering. It is important not only to know how to play scales and arpeggios, but also how to construct them, what are the properties of the different degrees and how music is built out of them. Scales and arpeggios form the basic vocabulary of music as well as its grammar and syntax.

Can you identify all the scales and chords in a piece of music? Can you follow how the tonal centre moves through successive modulations as the piece progresses? Can you see how a motif gets varied and developed – you will need to know your scales back to front to see this.

Unless you can understand a piece in these (basic – there is more) terms, you are like a typist copying a text in Portuguese: you will be able to do it, but you will not get the meaning.

As for technical exercises, I personally do not like them or assign them (I am thinking here of Hanon, Pischna, Beyer, and even Czerny), because they were created based on flawed theories (Hanon for instance states in his preface that his aim is complete equality of finger strength and independence. This is just wrong). As for the others, they are not good music. Do you want superb technical exercises that will give you everything that Czerny might and more? And at the same time the most amazing music, music you can add to your repertory? Then try those: Scarlatti sonatas, JS Bach keyboard works, Schumann – Album for the young. You see, these were originally conceived as exercises, but the composers could not help themselves. Even when composing silly exercises, they could not help but produce superlative music. (At the advanced level you have the Chopin, Liszt, Debussy and Rachmaninoff etudes to mention the most famous).

This does not mean that you do not need to work on technique. Work on it you must. But there is no need to do that through the likes of Hanon.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[tommy]

DJ:
Is it possible to fully master the piano?..hell yes!
I have been playing for only three months and already I can play all of rachmaninoffs concertos and all of stockhausen's piano pieces.!!
Tommy

[greyrune]

DJ:
Is it possible to fully master the piano?..hell yes!
I have been playing for only three months and already I can play all of rachmaninoffs concertos and all of stockhausen's piano pieces.!!
Tommy

Don't you think thats a little cocky?  While i'm sure you may be talented and have learned fast i hardly think you can say you have mastered the piano after three months.  I've only been playing for eight months or so but i'm sure even the great pianists who have been playing for years on end would hardly say they've mastered the instrument.  I would guess theres always something you can improve on.  Sorry if thats off topic just thought it needed saying.

[ayahav]

I like improvising as a warm-up, and I tend to try and incorporate scales and arpeggios when I improvise. It's more fun than just practise...

[tommy]

hi greyrune
yes I admit I was stretching the truth a little in my last post..can't play rach or stockhausen yet but I CAN play a wicked version of oranges and lemons!
Tommy.

[donjuan]

It is important to use scale technique in one's playing.  Once you have down the thumb passing part, scales are only useful to get familiar with the major and minor keys.  

Practising for long periods on scales is boring.  I suggest doing pieces with scecific technical aspects EG. Liszt- Transcendental Etude No.1 to get familiar with a piano
Liszt-Un sospiro for arpeggios
Chopin - Etude Op.10 No.2 for Chromatic passages and the development of the 3,4,5 fingers.

Practicing scales endlessly is ridiculous.
I hope I have helped you.
donjuan