Digital Recording Equipment

[rachfan]

All my analog equipment (even the demagnetizing gun and head cleaning fluid  ) has been stored away, and my solid state digital recording gear is already in transit.  Hey, while I was in the basement, I even found my mic stand cable clamps.  I'm psyched about the changeover!

Today I designed my testing speadsheet for my existing small diaphragm condenser mics.  Each test will be numbered.  The data captured will be type capsule--omni or cardioid, configuration used--XY or AB, height of mics on stands, angle of mic elevation or declination (including level at 180 degrees), distance from piano, amount of mic separation, treble clarity, bass clarity, subjective impression of blended sound (dry, lush, etc.), and emotional punch. 

There are only a couple of sure constants: For XY configuration, I'll be using a 90 degree angle and cardioid capsules only, as XY will not work with omni-directionals.  Also due to the rectangular shape of my living room, I cannot possibly meet the 3-to-1 rule for A-B configuration.  So they'll be a compromise there.  Other than that, there will be plenty of variables to note.  I anticipate that most tests will occur within 7 feet of the piano.  I might do one out around 16' or so just to hear what goes on out there.

This should be fun as well as very useful.

[m]

I cannot possibly meet the 3-to-1 rule for A-B configuration.  So they'll be a compromise there. 

Hey Rachfan,

Understand your excitment, but don't get carried away too much. The "3-to-1 rule" is for mixing and does not apply for stereo, and is N/A for you.

Best, M

[eoghan]

Hello,
I have a Nakamichi BX300 cassette deck and Teac portable DAT recorder. The Teac head needed replacement, but was too uneconomic to doso  I bought a Tascam HDP2 compact flash recorder model which giives 16 and 24 bit recording, at  44, 96 and 192 sample rates.
I only use 16bit/44 rate, which gives over 3 hours uncompressed recording on a 2GB card. I connect a Rode 400 mic directly into the mic inputs, and get a superb recording quality, free of audible noise, and with realistic believable  sound quality. The recording can be loaded for editing etc.  from the card  in a short time  directly into a PC by connecting the recorder directly, or by using a card reader.
I am fussy about quality, and in the past 12 months have got really good results.
The Tascam is not overly expensive in USA, and might suit your needs.
I also use minidisc, which is quite good, but only for non critical applications. It can'tr compare with the Tascam. DAT is good also, but new machines are hard to come by. It hasn't got the ease of use a CF recorder has. Hope this helps.

[rachfan]

Hi eoghan,

My Nakamichi is the CR-2A two-head cassette tape deck (now packed away).  Nakamichi made fabulous equipment in their time, didn't they?  If Type IV Metal bias tape were still being made, I probably still be using it, ha-ha!.  Once technology shifted to DAT and minidisks, the design engineers at Nakamichi could not keep up with changing technologies.  Even though they dabbled a little in DAT, which never went over big with consumers, they fell way behind the curve and were eventually bought by Grande Holdings in the late 90s. In the early 2000s they went bankrupt and Niro Nakamichi left the company.  They could never advance much beyond cassette tape technology, unfortunately.  They emerged from bankruptcy and were last selling mostly CD changers.  It's a shame that they could not maintain their once lofty position, as their products were of very high caliber.

I did take a very close look at the Tascam flash recorder and liked it a lot.  It's a very fine product indeed.  There were a couple of things though: 1) It uses FireWire for data transfers to the PC.  I've read blurbs that FireWire and Dell PCs don't get along very well--and I have a Dell.  The Korg uses USB 2.0 cable for transfers.  The other thing was that while flash card technology is great, the Korg MR-1000 I ordered (which should arrive Monday) is a direct stream digital (DSD) 1 bit/5.6Mhz recorder, which is even more recent technology.  For storage it has a 40 gig HD.  It's all solid state, no moving parts, and totally silent in operation.  It's a tabletop model like the Tascam HD-P2, but also like the Tascam, is still small enough to be portable.  I believe I'm going to like the Korg a lot.

Yes, DAT seems to be a vanishing breed now, and mini-disks are mostly still in use in Japan these days, where it still enjoys a loyal customer base.  Elsewhere consumers are looking more at the flash cards and DSD units.  Sounds like you're very satisfied with the Tascam.  Great! 

[rachfan]

Hi marik,

Thanks for that clarification on the "3 to 1" rule as applying to mixing only.  I've read a ton of technical articles on mic-ing the past two days, and I think the authors often assume that the reader is as knowledgeable as they are.  Whenever I would encounter this "rule" for A-B mic-ing, not one author made the distinction between recording and mixing!  So the rule seemed universal, and I was easily misled on that point. So I appreciate your timely tip.  Thanks!

Once I finish my testing, I hope to have a new recording posted fairly soon.

[eoghan]

Hi Rachfan,
I have a Dell Dimension 8300 (bought in 2003) and some time ago I installed a firewire card for video transer, with no problems whatever. However for the Tascam I take out the card and use a standard card reader for transfer of recorded files, and this works fine. The HD-P2 is absolutely silent - put your ear to it and you won't hear a thing when it's running. I have made some recordings of solo piano and vocalist with piano, and they sound first rate played through a high end audiophile hifi system.

[eoghan]

Hello Rachfan,
my previous post wasn't finished! It uploaded in error. I meant to add that I share your regrets that Nakamichi didn't survive to go on to greater things; however their tape machines were absolutely superb. My BX 300 was purchased in 1985, and had just 2 services. It records and plays back even today with first rate sound, as steady as a rock, with no apparent (to my ears anyway) high frequency fall off. However cassette is analogue, so there's not much future for that format.
I have a 2nd DAT machine, a Tascam DA 20 MK 2, which is a workhorse. I don't use it all that much now, but have a collection of DAT recordings I play from time to time, mostly recordings I have done at various stages on the defunct TEAC portable DAT. I really liked DAT, but CF and HD recorders are the way to go now. Good luck with your new Korg; perhaps you will post your experience with it when you have tried it out. Cheers.

[rachfan]

Hi eoghan,

I was hoping for delivery of the Korg today, especially where it's arrived in my city' Fedex office already, but it looks like it'll be tomorrow.  I've devised a spreadsheet with 20 positioning and adjustments tests to see where I'll get the best results.  Once I plow through that, I'll report back here briefly to let everyone know what I found.  I also believe I can have a new recording out on it fairly soon too.

Yeah, I'll miss the Nakamichi cassette recorder.  In conjunction with that, I also used a Denon tape dubbing unit to duplicate some of my cassette tapes when I was doing a lot of recordings.  Now, you just send the music file to someone via email as an attachment.  Quite a difference!

Update, March 4th:  Everything arrived today from different vendors--the Korg MR1000, the mic cables, the USB 2.0 cable, and fresh 9.1V mic transitor batteries.  My Nakamichi condenser mics work fine with their own batteries with the Korg.  As soon as the Mrs. goes out to do some errands, I'll start my mic positioning tests.  Can't wait!

 

[goldentone]

We eagerly await, Rachfan!   

[rachfan]

Speaking of recordings, here is my next question:  From what I see in the Korg and the AudioGate user manuals, AudioGate software will take the 1 bit 5.6Hz DFF format and in the moment will play it on its media player.  But AudioGate does not appear to have a facility to actually create an mp3 file that can be uploaded elsewhere. 

That MIGHT not matter.  I also have AVS Audio Utilities which can take any number of file formats and convert them to mp3.  (For analog, I used to record in WAV and next create a file for My Music in My Documents in Windows, which would appear as a WMA file.  If I wanted to then post it, AVS Audio Utilities would quickly convert the WMA to mp3 for me. 

I'll probably have to experiment with trying to convert DFF to mp3.  But I don't know if AVS Utilities will even know what's coming at it when I feed it a direct stream digital recording!  Worst case--the Korg can also record in WAV format (although the purpose of having the Korg in the first place is to use DFF).  WAV would be a piece of cake for AVS to convert.

I wonder if anyone here has played around with DFF to mp3 conversions yet?

[rachfan]

Today I did some test recordings with the Korg MR-1000 in DFF format.  The first series used XY coincident 90 degree crossed mics with and without panning.  Because of the inherent mic configuration plus the fact that cartioid mics are essential for XY, I quickly discovered that you can't set them very far away from the piano.  So I started with a 1' close-in and then another test 3' back.  On the outtakes, I could readily see that XY would be a fine possibility for jazz or pops.  But for classical, the sound was insufficiently blended and sounded percussive, even a bit metalic and stringy.  Overall, for classical, I didn't like it. 

The second series was A-B configuration tests with the parallel omni-directional capsules, which turned out to be more interesting and promising.  The sound in general was more lush and a tad more mellow--which was fine.  I had the time to set the mics in parallel with a constant 24" separation at distances of 3', 5'6", and 8' away from the open piano.  I used downward 20 degree panning for 3', upwardly inclined at 20 degrees for 5'6", and upwardly inclined at 10 degrees at 8' out.  I increased mic height as I moved them farther back from the piano.  Very surprisingly, I believe I got the best sound at 8'!  This might be why":

The living room is a 24' x 12' rectangle.  The piano is in a corner, its back side to the 12' width, the tail facing a "length wall", and the curved side facing out into the length of the room.  At the tail of the piano, the length wall continues only for 10' and then it stops where the living room is totally open to the dining room and front foyer.  My theory is that the sound leaving the piano  is somewhat confined and channeled by that 10' wall initially.  Then the sound is able to fan out beyond that point where the wall ends.  So when the mics are 8' in front of the open piano (and beyond the length of that partial wall), the mic picks up the wider and freer sound dispersion farther out there in the living room, whereas at a 5' 6" mic placement, the sound is still being channeled against that that wall.  Just a theory. 

Tomorrow I plan a narrower set of refined tests  at 6, 7 and 8' or more to see if I can find the "sweet spot" that I can use in the future.  I'll also include level mics in addition to the upward inclines.  (The ceiling is the standard 8' tall, so level mics might not be a bad idea.)  I'll also try more separation between the mics.   

The only concern I have with the Korg is that with the omnis, not the cartioids, the low bass frequencies were not very dramatic when they needed to be.  I saw a complaint on the Korg website about that issue, but had dismissed it as one isolated opinion.  (The demo material prerecorded on the unit was guitar--perhaps Korg's real forte???)  I did notice too though in the preliminary tests today that the bass had better clarity and power out at that 8' mic setting.  I've also read that a canceling effect that diminishes the bass can be caused by insufficient mic separation as they get farther back from the sound source.   I'll know more tomorrow.
     

[rachfan]

With much additional experimentation with the Korg MR-1000 DSD and my Nakamichi small diaphragm condenser mics with omnidirectional capsules, I found a really good positioning today.  Although placing mics 6' in front of a piano on a stage or in a large recording studio probably works famously, it didn't work well in my living room.  To obtain melded, blended and beautiful sounding music, I eventually discovered that the mics needed to be farther back from the piano.  Placing the mics at 5 to 6' out from the piano produced too much of a mechanical, metalic, harsh and stringy sound.  At the other extreme, 11' out, the sound was "swimming" in an airy ambiance.  Thus, I knew the answer lay somewhere in between--which turned out to be 8'.

So in my situation, this is what I found works best (as revised 3/9/08):

Distance from piano: 8'
Separation between mics: 18'
Stand height: 5'
Upwardly inclined panning angle: 10 degrees
Mic orientation: not exactly parallel, but slightly converging.

During previous tests I became quite concerned that the piano's bass sounded weak, yet I knew it was powerful.  (What Baldwin grand doesn't have a powerful bass?  )  At first I began to dread that it was the Korg MR-1000, and that I might have to return it to Sweetwater.  However, I soon discovered that phase cancellation was causing the low bass frequencies to fall out of the so-called "mono sum".   So I separated the mics to a full 8', and voila!--the bass became rich and profound.  Problem solved!

What I got from these many trials is that for room recordings, you really need to invest a ton of time in experimenting with the mic placements, separations, orientations, panning, etc.  There is no one standard configuration that applies to every room.  Rooms have different dimensions, absorption and reflective characteristics, pianos, and pianists, all resulting in very different accoutical results.

Now that I have this mystery solved, I can return to practicing to make a recording using the Korg! 

 

[eoghan]

Hello Rachfan,
Glad you got good results from your tests. Will you post a sample recording of the results?
BTW I assume your login name means you are a fan of Rachmaninoff? He wrote so magnificiently for the instrument.

[rachfan]

Hi eoghan,

Yes, now that all that mic placement testing is completed, I can get back to practicing this coming week.  I hope soon to post another of the Bortkiewicz Op. 33 Preludes, this time No. 8 in D flat.  I'm even considering going back and re-recording the Prelude No. 7 in F# as well as the Impromptu, Op. 24, No. 3 "Eros" on the Korg MR-1000.  Rachmaninoff has always been my favorite composer though.  Here on PianoStreet I've posted 9 or 10 or his Preludes from Op. 23 and 32 as well as his two piano transcriptions of his own songs.  So yeah, I'm definitely a fan!

[m]

Separation between mics: also 8'

 

The stereo image with 8' will be way too wide and unnatural. Even 2' I'd consider too wide. I highly doubt the phase cancellation or the Korg itself are the problem, which most likely is the mic position. Space the mics about 30cm apart and then move them to the right pass the curve on the piano rim, so they pick more LF content.

[rachfan]

Hi marik,

But at 8 feet out (measured from the front leg of the piano, since the high treble is right over that leg, so not measured from the curve), wouldn't it stand to reason that there would need to be some additional mic separation--or is the 30 cm (12") supposed to be an absolute constant regardless of distance from the piano?  I'll give it a try, and I might be admitting you're right, but it does surprise me.  (I'd have to move a couch every time I record to position as you suggest, but that's OK. )

[rachfan]

Hi marik,

OK, you're right.  I did an additional test today at 8' distance from the piano with 12" separation between the parallel mics.  The sound was indeed better integrated, and the bass frequency pick-up was very adequate as well.  I'll stick with this positioning from now on. 

So here is the positioning as revised:

Distance from piano: 8'
Separation between mics: 12"
Mic orientation: Exactly parallel
Upward inclined mic angles: 10 degrees
Height of stands: 5'

Thanks for your help!

[rachfan]

I've had a great night.  Following the refining of my microphone positioning, I successfully transferred files from the Korg MR-1000 to my PC.  Next I got the AudioGate software associated with the Korg to play a DSD files (DFF format) on the PC.  No other of three media players I have has a clue as to what to do with DSD format.  Then I got AudioGate to export the DFF file to WAV.  (I can also record directly to WAV on the Korg rather than having AudioGate convert it from DFF, so can even skip that step altogether.)  The last step though was converting WAV to mp3.  My existing software, AVS Audio Utilities can accept actual audio inputs for conversion to mp3 (microphone, line-in, CD, tape, etc.), but it cannot handle an electronic music file per se.  Doesn't even know what it is!  So on the Internet I just purchased a small, slick program, Super MP3 WAV Converter, which does the operation in seconds, all for $19.95.  So now I'm back in business. 

I might have a new recording up this week in Audition Room.  Unfortunately, because of the rules, it'll have to be in mp3, unfortunately, so you won't be able to hear the Korg's DSD recording quality, or even in WAV for that matter.  But I think you'll sort of get the idea hopefully.  It's neat to be in the digital recording world now!    

[m]

Hey Rachfan,

Since I was the one to bring your attention to Korg, just was wondering if you are a little disappointed to get out of analog world and if at least the DSD format somewhat comparable in sound quality to your Nakamichi tape? Or you just have found that the mcirophone positioning is much more important? 

As a side note, I never owned the Nak, but have serviced a lot of them, including three KINGS of tape decks--1000, CR7, and Dragon (the last two still fetch on Ebay something between $500-$1000). Because of their complexity PITA to work on, but they'd outperform any half track reel-to-reel on 15 ips with ease.

Best, M 

[rachfan]

Hi marik,

Well, to be honest, if Type IV Metal bias tape were still being manufactured and sold, I'd probably have had no motivation to leave analog for digital.  One thing I liked about analog was its warm sound.  BUT, the the clarity of DSD is something to aurally behold too.  Having worked with the Korg for a few days, one of the features I like is doing retakes.  Unlike the Tascam which has an automated retake button, the Korg doesn't, but it's not really cumbersome either.  What I do is simply stop the present recording and initiate the next at the touch of two buttons.  Once I have a take that I truly like, I simply go into the project library and delete the earlier attempts.  It only takes a minute.  With cassette tape it was stop, rewind, find the start position on the odometer, set record, then play, etc., which could raise frustration levels in recording.  I can't say I miss that!!!  As for Nakamichi, they got an A+ for quality and durability of products.  It's sad though that once DAT, mini-disk and flash cards came along, their engineers couldn't make the break from cassette technology (which they absolutely perfected) to compete in the modern world of more advanced technologies.  Goes to show, "Every dog has its day" as they say.

I do like the sound of the omni-directional capsules on the mics now and the 8' separation from the piano.  Not that I didn't love some of my older close-in recordings, like Ravel's "Vallee des cloches" or Rachmaninoff's "Lilacs" done that way, for example.  But, yes, I do understand the concept and need for classical recordings to get a better blended sound overall.  So yeah, I'm now a convert.

I just posted my first digital recording in the Audition Room here, the Sergei Bortkiewicz Prelude Op. 33, No. 8 in D flat (in the abysmal mp3).  If you have a moment, you might want to check it out.  My jury is still out on the bass pickup of the Korg though.  See what you think (the piano has fairly new Arledge Bass Strings and Ronsen Wurzen hammers, shanks and flanges too--and last month received the Crescendo conical wurzen felt key punchings too).  I did move the mics down the curve a bit as you suggested, but it's still a little subdued.  The Prelude No. 8 I posted doesn't really challenge the bass much, so I should re-record No. 7 to give it a trial by fire.  (If you're not familiar with No. 7 I posted, it's on Page 2 of  Audition Room, and you can see how the analog close-in recording handled it.) 

Progess is being made! 

[rachfan]

In case anyone missed it, my first digital recording, Bortkiewicz's Prelude, Op. 33, No. 8 is now posted in the Audition Room (in mp3  )  You might want to check it out.   

[m]

I am glad at least you are not disappointed. And I am sure definitely you are enjoing the ease of setup with no receiver, power supply, etc.
I had a listen to a couple of your recordings and definitely, overall quality of the Bortkewitch recording has improved (albeit, probably mainly to better miking technique and use of omni capsules). 
I did not think it lacks the bass at all. For my ears, on the contrary, it is somewhat on a powerful side, esp. mid bass. But to be completely honest, for me it is impossible to say something more specific as the piano is so much of tune that it is hard to understand things.
Hey, how about for money you saved on bying new mics you tune your instrument?

Best, M 

[rachfan]

Hi marik,

The new strings on the Baldwin have been stretching since last April.  (The bass are Arledge Bass Strings and the treble bridge is Mapes International Gold wire.)  They have to stretch mostly around the tuning pins, bridge posts, and AccuJust hitch pins.  I'll be glad when they stabilize!!!  The piano was last tuned in January.  I'll probably have it tuned in the spring.  The new Ronsen Wurzen hammers need some voicing touch-up in places as well in the tenor--some harsh edges to some tones.  We're getting there though.

Yes, all that clutter of equipment is now gone from the living room.  It's still hard to imagine that one small box does it all.  Incredible!  I'm glad you liked the sound even in mp3.  You'd like the DSD for sure.  For the recording you heard, I had to use the WAV option, as most conversion software doesn't even recognize DSD, it's so new.

Thanks for your recommendation on the Korg MR-1000, and also on the mic-ing procedure.  I really enjoy the Korg, like its sound, and learned a lot from that mic positioning exercise.

Thanks again.