Reversing a cycle of frustration

[m19834]

I have recently acquired a student who is in a cycle of playing problems and feels he is in a bit of a musical/personal crisis because of it.  He has developed physical problems as a result of problematic technique and these problems have become so severe that he is in pain at the piano and at the computer.  I believe I can help him physically to find the right motions and an efficient, pain-free technique, but it is his mental state that I am concerned about.

He is so frustrated about not being able to play the piano in the way that he wants, that it is actually adding to the problem and is a big part of what makes his current state a "cycle."  The greater his mental frustration is, the more it physically manifests in ways that are painful and in ways that block his intentions, and the more the physique gets in the way, the more mentally frustrated he is.  I am aiming to reverse the cycle altogether and put it on a different track.

In order to do this, I feel he must first accept that what he is currently doing is not working for him, it is not correct, and needs to be changed.  He is going to need to be patient because he is going to need to start from scratch.  Part of the problem is in getting him to realize the importance of a healthier state of mind, without ignoring or belittling the feelings he is currently experiencing (and therefore adding to the frustration). 

I think it's underestimated by many people just how much a person needs to change sometimes.  It can be something which feels like it's at the very core of one's existence, and that kind of change won't happen overnight and the path certainly will not always be clear.  There will be deeply-rooted beliefs and fears, there will be experiences that have seemed to cause trauma.  I think that these are all related and must be addressed in a way that gives a positive force to one's endeavors.

How do you suggest a person "use" this kind of frustration in a positive way ?  In a way that will eventually alleviate the frustration, and in this case, reverse the cycle that he is currently in ?

Perhaps somebody on this board can relate in some way and feels they may have something to offer on this subject.  Or perhaps teachers have had experience with similar cases and have something to add.

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas .

Karli

[gerry]

Sounds to me like you're treading into areas that might be better left to professionals. It may be that the student needs to rest and recover before pushing on even if it is in a different direction. The responses to this thread I would hope for would be to hear at what point piano teachers (since they are often at the root of the problem in the first place) realize their limits in an area such as this and advise professional help with a  therapist (physical and/or mental) or an orthopedist. Your intentions sound admirable and you do sound convinced that you are able to help, but just realize that you've got a human being who has developed muscle as well as related psychological problems...be very careful how you advise.

[m19834]

Sounds to me like you're treading into areas that might be better left to professionals.

So, you are suggesting that I am merely a little tulip or so ?   Or perhaps you will give me the credit of at least being a professional tulip .

[gerry]

Not sure what "tulip" means in this context but forgive me if I didn't realize you might also be a medical professional. I think the intent of my posting was perfectly clear.

[m19834]

Well, the intent seems to be that you suggest I stay away from these matters altogether.  Am I wrong ?  Or that if I don't, I at least be careful in how I go about it as if I didn't already know this.  For all you know, he is already enrolled with the "professionals" that you have mentioned. 

Bare in mind, I am not asking for advices on physical matters that can be read and misunderstood by others perusing this forum, nor am I asking for psychological leads which should be addressed and handled.  I am speaking about helping a person to divert their frustrations about not being able to play the piano and be a musician as they would like, since patience will be necessary as we venture into our work together.  What is, to you, so complicated about that topic ?  And, how is this not the responsibility of a piano/music teacher ?

[Petter]

Is his self image closely connected with his ability to play piano? And is he willing on his own to change his playing in order to improve? I think you stand a good chance of helping him unless its something forced on him. And how old is he?

[gerry]

For all you know, he is already enrolled with the "professionals" that you have mentioned.

A common problem encountered when this information is not offered in the first place.

Bare in mind, I am not asking for advices on physical matters that can be read and misunderstood by others perusing this forum, nor am I asking for psychological leads which should be addressed and handled.

I sounded like you were doing just that when you posted the following:

He has developed physical problems as a result of problematic technique and these problems have become so severe that he is in pain at the piano and at the computer.  I believe I can help him physically to find the right motions and an efficient, pain-free technique, but it is his mental state that I am concerned about.

And, how is this not the responsibility of a piano/music teacher ?

All I was suggesting is that it might be a wise move to become one in a"team" of specialists, if you will--something, if true, you didn't make entirely clear in your original posting. Good luck.

[m19834]

I do see your points, gerry, but I have to say that I find it funny that a piano teacher is "supposed" to be a professional in being able to help a person to develop all of the necessities in becoming an efficient piano player and musician, but is somehow automatically, professionally unequipped if there stands a need for correction in these areas.   Don't you find that to be a little odd ?

Efficient and sound methods are efficient and sound methods, and if I am not equipped to help a person "correct" the wrong ones, then I might as well close my doors because I am not equipped then to help anybody to develop the right ones either.  Who is supposed to help a person to know how to mentally and physically play the piano and be a musician better than a piano/music teacher ?

Which, by the way, brings up an interesting point about teachers in general.

Perhaps all piano teachers should be either also a medical and psychological professional or part of a team.  Wouldn't you agree ?

In any event, you have still avoided the topic but I thank you for cautionary warnings and wishes of good luck ! 

[gerry]

I'm  not a teacher and I apologize for not addresing your specific question. I agree with you that, of course in an ideal world, a piano teacher should be able to address such problems. My concerns arose mostly from reading about irreversible damage that has been incurred as the result of good intentions. In the past, piano teachers didn't have things like computer-related injuries to complicate their task, and, as a result, we're constantly learning more and more about arm, wrist, and hand physiology and musculature. All your hard work with this student at the piano may work at the time, but if he is sitting at a computer/mouse wrong, it could be counterproductive.

I didn't mean for a moment to belittle your abilities and commonsense and I admire your decision to take this student on under such circumstances with all the attendant time, worry and effort it will take on your part--probably not being compensated $$$-wise for your extra effort! Your posting had an "idealistic" tone to it so I was just injecting a cautionary note to consider along with your enthusiasm--that's all. Now let's take on the day.

[counterpoint]

karli, I see two major dangers in this situation, as you described it:

1.

that you, as the teacher, try to change and "correct" the student's behaviour totally - could easily turn in a sort of brainwash.

2.

that your student gets the feeling, everything he did until now was completely wrong and worthless.


I would suggest to make only occasional comments on his playing, mainly to show him the beauty of music. There may be many things wrong in his "technique" or in his musical approach - but you can't fix anything that is wrong at once. So the most important thing is to make him feel comfortable with the pieces he play. To give him the feeling of freedom. That will take some months. After that, you can work with him more straightforward. But until then: just let him cool down and warm up.

[Bob]

.

[johnk]

When you speak of the need for people to change, be careful to not be implying that his basic personality or physical identity is deficient. He will naturally react if he feels he is being threatened. Even telling him his technique is wrong may make him defensive. We are often not aware of ourselves physically untill we see a picture or hear a recording of ourselves.

I would suggest using a webcam to let him see himself objectively, and get him to consider what may be causing his problems himself. Telling him he is doing something inefficiently may just not sink in, whereas seeing himself on video may be just the revelation he needs to realise a change in the way he does it could be the solution to his problems.

But also keep in mind that if he has overuse syndrome, nothing will cure him immediately. I had RSI problems which lasted 5 years in my 40s. For me, swimming seemed to be the catylist that started my recovery.

[m19834]

I will be quick for now, but I just wanted to add that I will be seeing him 5 days a week for half an hour each day, for 3-6 months.  It is already agreed that this time he is at lessons with me will be his only time at the piano for about a month until I am sure he is developing properly and can be trusted on his own.  He has already realized on his own, and I have already affirmed his realization, that he will be completely renovating his technique and we have already addressed his computer use and he has purchased an ergonomic keyboard and we will talk about how he needs to sit at that, too.  He recognizes the need for all of this and wants to do this, it is, afterall, completely *his* choice.  He is consciously and decidedly "in" because learning to play in the way he wants to means that much to him, and he has music that he wants to write (and has written) and be able to play it himself. 

There are a lot of good comments and recommendations here, I thank you and I will be back soon ! 

Thanks,
Karli

[gerry]

Thanks for the update.

[counterpoint]

I will be quick for now, but I just wanted to add that I will be seeing him 5 days a week for half an hour each day, for 3-6 months. 

Sorry, but that sounds completely wierd to me.

[m19834]

Sorry, but that sounds completely wierd to me.

Apology accepted  .

[counterpoint]

Apology accepted  .

I will never tolerate brainwashing methods.

You're responsible for what you do!

[m19834]

I will never tolerate brainwashing methods.

*point against point* ... hey !  Look, everybody !  It's counterpoint !  What an interesting motif you present .   What would be the retrograde ?

methods brainwashing tolerate never will I 

(that sounds like Yoda ... maybe Yoda's whole speech secret is "retrograde" ... does he wear bell-bottoms ?  Oh, wait, that's "retro" ... but, isn't "retro" short for retrograde ?  Maybe somebody will swoop in and let us know).

or would it actually be :

sdohtem gnihsawniarb etarelot reven lliw I


-- that looks German or Latin or something, don't you think ?  Hey, anybody speak German or Latin and is willing to translatatoriationary for us ?



ps -- *singing voice*  Yooooda, yo-yo-yo-yo yoooo da