Weak fourth and fifth fingers

[counterpoint]

Not only the fingers, but all movements you can make with fingers, hands and arms.

[gyzzzmo]

Do you need weight to play a loud note? No.

Do you need weight to play a soft note? No.

Weight has nothing to do with dynamics.

(You can use weight, if you like to, but there is no real need for it.)

I started ignoring all the 'weight' rubbish :p
I gues its a way of looking intelligent by talking about weight. Or, ofcourse, those people have been playing on a place with inverted gravity.....  Anyway, on earth weight is pointed to the earthcentre, so just sitting behind the piano should be sufficient for putting stuff down.

Im also curious how those people play fast Chopeds, or pieces like campanella. Putting weight in all those notes (in their way) must make them look like a mating rabbit.

gyzzz

[nick]

I started ignoring all the 'weight' rubbish :p
I gues its a way of looking intelligent by talking about weight. Or, ofcourse, those people have been playing on a place with inverted gravity.....  Anyway, on earth weight is pointed to the earthcentre, so just sitting behind the piano should be sufficient for putting stuff down.

Im also curious how those people play fast Chopeds, or pieces like campanella. Putting weight in all those notes (in their way) must make them look like a mating rabbit.

gyzzz

Gyzzz, not trying to look intelligent talking about my use of weight. I don't consider myself all that intelligent, it just seems to be easier in all playing aspects. Never played Campanella. Mating rabbit? Never heard my fast playing looks like that. Do you have any examples I could view of your playing without using weight for fast passages?

Nick

[viking]

I started ignoring all the 'weight' rubbish :p
I gues its a way of looking intelligent by talking about weight. Or, ofcourse, those people have been playing on a place with inverted gravity.....  Anyway, on earth weight is pointed to the earthcentre, so just sitting behind the piano should be sufficient for putting stuff down.

Im also curious how those people play fast Chopeds, or pieces like campanella. Putting weight in all those notes (in their way) must make them look like a mating rabbit.

gyzzz

As has been said before, talking about weight doesn't mean putting all possible weight into each note.  However, it means knowing when to use the right amount of weight under the right circumstances, but still always using weight instead of just the fingers, which are extremely awkward and unreliable to make sound.  And for your information I played La Campanella 7 years ago with no hint of animal reproduction to be found.

[thierry13]

Im also curious how those people play fast Chopeds, or pieces like campanella. Putting weight in all those notes (in their way) must make them look like a mating rabbit.

And for your information I played La Campanella 7 years ago with no hint of animal reproduction to be found.

Hahaha Pwn3d (couldn't resist the spelling ).

BTW you need CONTROL of weight to play a loud note WELL, a soft note WELL, and any note WELL actually. This control can be achieved by different postures/movement of the fingers, different postures/movement of the arm etc. and the part wich is the LESS important (by VERY VERY far), is finger movement. Compare the possibilities of movement, the impact, the strength, the control(all other aspects you can think of) of a finger and then compare those capacities with the ones of the arm. You will see that the arms win by a lot. The only advantage of the fingers is that there are 5 by arm, so you switch from one to another to switch from one note to the other faster with an ease to produce legato. All the rest is arm/shoulderblade movement and posture.

[richy321]

OK, we've established that it is not the amount of weight in your body parts but how much of the weight you USE that matters.  But how do you control the amount of weight that is used?  This is where proponents of weight transfer usually drop the matter, leaving some of us who have some respect for physics and physiology unconvinced.

There are only two things you can do (and this applies to all behavior): contract certain muscles and release certain muscles at any given time.  Weight itself is a constant.  The only way it can be used is to keep the muscles as relaxed as possible and use only the minimum amount of contraction that is necessary to get the amount of downward velocity that you need and at the time you need it.  The acceleration due to gravity being a constant, this means that even with the maximum relaxation in the appropriate set of muscles, gravity itself will not necessarily give you the velocity you need, much less at the exact time you need it.  In other words, even with maximum use of weight, you still need to add whatever amount of muscular contraction is needed to get the total velocity we want at the keys.  It's just that by removing as much of the unnecessary co-contractions as possible, one ends up with a minimum of the type of tension that is so harmful to technique. 

Obviously, the use of arm/body weight as such is useful for many people, but others may require a more physically complete explanation.  Hope this helps. 
 

[thierry13]

OK, we've established that it is not the amount of weight in your body parts but how much of the weight you USE that matters.  But how do you control the amount of weight that is used?  This is where proponents of weight transfer usually drop the matter, leaving some of us who have some respect for physics and physiology unconvinced.

There are only two things you can do (and this applies to all behavior): contract certain muscles and release certain muscles at any given time.  Weight itself is a constant.  The only way it can be used is to keep the muscles as relaxed as possible and use only the minimum amount of contraction that is necessary to get the amount of downward velocity that you need and at the time you need it.  The acceleration due to gravity being a constant, this means that even with the maximum relaxation in the appropriate set of muscles, gravity itself will not necessarily give you the velocity you need, much less at the exact time you need it.  In other words, even with maximum use of weight, you still need to add whatever amount of muscular contraction is needed to get the total velocity we want at the keys.  It's just that by removing as much of the unnecessary co-contractions as possible, one ends up with a minimum of the type of tension that is so harmful to technique. 

Obviously, the use of arm/body weight as such is useful for many people, but others may require a more physically complete explanation.  Hope this helps. 
 

There is not only a difference in the type of tension harmful to technique, the sound produced is really a world appart. Playing with high curled finger action and firm arms counting only on velocity first produces an harsh tone AND is harmful for you. There is not only a control of volume, there is a control of texture and of color.

[sarah the pianist]

I find hannon and Czerny excersises handy!

[thalbergmad]

I find the Czerny exercises handy as well, as the piano legs on my stool are of unequal length.

The Czerny sonatas, i keep on the piano.

Thal

[allthumbs]

..., as the piano legs on my stool are of unequal length.

The Czerny sonatas, i keep on the piano.

Thal

Thal, you always crack me up !;D

BTW, if change the length of one of the piano legs to match your bench, it might balance things out, although the Czerny sonatas may fall off.


allthumbs

[lostinidlewonder]

I have always found this Hanon Exercise good for developing 4,5 combination.

     CDCD AGAG | DEDE BABA | EFEF ....... etc

RH:1212 5454
LH:5454 1212

Accenting the first note of each group of 4, varying rhythms key position etc.