Hi everyone,I'm learning Beethoven pathetique sonata and I don't know how to play the trills? It is start from the main note or the note above? Thanks for your help.
in the sonatas of beethoven, my premise is that you don't want to give away where you are going too soon. for instance, even if you take one of the easy sonatas - such as the opus 2#3 composed in the style of haydn and dedicated to him - in measure 21 you have a trill sign over a B. This B is ultimately going to finish it's course on the C. if you trill from the upper note (the C) - you give away where you are going too soon. it makes it dull and boring because you gave away a secret.
he could have written it : E - FE FE FE - D G. so...what better idea to get than from the master himself. remember, he wasn't seeking to be like everyone else and was probably teaching haydn a thing or two. 'hey, master - look at this - i can also trill from the bottom note.'
measures 56, 58, 59 make it MUCH easier to trill from the bottom note (fast triplet) for a beginner student.
also, beethoven himself WRITES IN THE TURNS at measure 45. some OVERDO everything and add a turn to a turn.
make it simple is my motto.
A TRILL QUESTION: In Beethoven Op. 101. Last movement, the fugue. The subject (first statement of it and elsewhere throughout) contains a short trill. Would you begin on or above the note and how many notes would you squeeze in? (So far, the the best I can come up with is 5 notes beginning on the note and wrapping up two more notes -- the ones Beethoven himself notated.) The tempo is a brisk allegro, so not much time to squeeze notes in. In the first statement of the fugue subject the note to trill on is an F. Beethoven says the trill should wrap up with EF.
The trill is on F and is preceded by G, so it starts from the bottom note.I play 7 notes. The hard part is the "wrap" does not get resolved into down beat, so it is somewhat tricky to "hang it up in the air" on pp, maintaining pulse.Best, M
Thanks so much. Just to clarify: the "wrap" is 6th and 7th notes in your 7-note solution? .
No, they are 8th-9th.
Phew. Busy fingers!
Nope , just very light, playing from the half depressed keys.That is, place 1st, 2nd, and 3rd fingers on E-F-G. Press them appr. half way down and then play from there (i.e. don't let the key return to the "up" position--keep it half way down, at all times). In a couple weeks of 15 minutes a day of slow practicing, concentrating on comfortable and relaxed sensation, I promise, you will have perfect 9 notes (including the "wrap") trills there.Best, M
ok measure45 - i slightly disagree with marik. i think actually here, beethoven WANTS dissonance since the previous G is paired with an F - and the start of this measure is an F and Eb paired. however, marik is right that the G is the longest held and therefore the 'main' note that is following a motif repetition.
(I'll be going back to NYC by mid-October. Are you near there? Would you consider squeezing one more student into your schedule?)
-i'm just saying that beethoven wasn't stuck to only classical types of ornaments. he was a creative composer and broke the boundaries a lot of times.
...you could probably conclude that in any such context there's not much of a universal correct answer, just different ways of thinking and interpreting