The Novice Classical Composer

[lostinidlewonder]

The composition is uninteresting, repetitive and has poor theoretical structure. That is just my opinion though

[healdie]

The composition is uninteresting, repetitive and has poor theoretical structure. That is just my opinion though

Wow theoretical structure i don't think thats important maybe a clue as to why it's called "theoretical"

[ted]

Perhaps I'm just getting old and past it, but I find myself saddened by this preoccupation with fame and money, whether somebody might "steal" one's music, and how "great" one's music is compared to that of other people. I have always been an unashamed idealist. I write and play a ton of piano music and it never occurs to me to keep "my" ideas out of sight. I share them with all and sundry. Anybody can have my scores and recordings. If I can give joy to someone with my music then I shall do so. I have absolutely no interest in comparisons and "greatness". I am always acutely aware of whether or not my music or improvisation has said what I wanted to say. That knowledge is sufficient for me. If others like what I play then my reward is multiplied; if they do not then that is all right too. Nothing really matters except the music itself.

On a philosophical level, I find the notion that music I have made "belongs" to me, like a treasure hidden under the bed, exceedingly repulsive.

Mind you, I suppose this is easy for me to say, having supported my music by very adequate other means all my life. All the same, my dismay is genuine.

[db05]

Perhaps I'm just getting old and past it, but I find myself saddened by this preoccupation with fame and money, whether somebody might "steal" one's music, and how "great" one's music is compared to that of other people.
...
On a philosophical level, I find the notion that music I have made "belongs" to me, like a treasure hidden under the bed, exceedingly repulsive.

Mind you, I suppose this is easy for me to say, having supported my music by very adequate other means all my life. All the same, my dismay is genuine.

Lucky you. I started off idealistic like you, but nonetheless found myself comparing to others and to what sounds are "correct". Wrote a couple pieces, and that's it. No more. Creativity is killed off by being too self-conscious. This must be pointed out. Enjoy your work even if you're the only one!

I agree with you with sharing my work with everyone. As it will end up in public domain anyway (in a long enough timeline). And it is good to find creative criticism. I think this is what loonbohol wants all along, and is struggling to express. Not many people have seriously critiqued his work, and I'm afraid my knowledge of this is insufficient. 

I think he wants to be a pro (not just a novice) composer, hence the thread.

[healdie]

yeah you must have faith in your work even if nobody else does plenty of composers were booed off the stage when the premiered a new work
Tchaikovsky piano concerto no. 1
Brahms Piano concerto No. 1
Rachmaninov Symphony No. 1
Stravinskys Rite of spring even started riots but now all of these works are considered masterpieces

[richard black]

Not many people have seriously critiqued his work

You're right. OK, here's one - bearing in mind this is based on the midi file version which gives a rather rough idea of the piece, even using some imagination to fill in the gaps.

It sounds like the typical ramblings of a teenager fiddling at the keyboard, which is nothing to be ashamed of but it's not a performable, finished composition. Actually the larger part of it is practically a recomposed Chopin piece (I can't say which one because my brain refuses to yield up the title - I can hear it in my head all right!). In places the rhythmic form seems to collapse, which is a definite flaw (rhythmic form exists for a reason and can be pushed, pulled and otherwise manipulated with care, but allowing it to collapse just disconcerts the listener to no constructive purpose). The harmony is simplistic and seems rather random in the way it goes in and out of multiple parts. But the composer clearly has an idea of how to write a melody. There's every reason for him to continue studying composition.

[lostinidlewonder]

Wow theoretical structure i don't think thats important maybe a clue as to why it's called "theoretical"

If there was no theory to composition then you would not have it taught at schools.  I am not going to seriously analyze this attempt at composition because it to me sounds like little musical through and direction (which is often aided by good theory and listening experience of music as a whole) has gone into choosing the notes. Richard hit the nail on the head when he said it sounds like the typical ramblings of someone fiddling at the keyboard.

We should be careful when we say here is a composition of mine, because this means that we have spend a lot of time thinking about it. This is a draft or this is an idea, that is different, but a composition, it is like a piece of poetry. You carefully select your words, you carefully structure it.

I'm just being harsh anyway, because all who attempt composition should be beat down and not encouraged, same goes for those who attempt to become professional pianists. If you are really serious about it you will not mind it anyway!

[db05]

You're right. OK, here's one - bearing in mind this is based on the midi file version which gives a rather rough idea of the piece, even using some imagination to fill in the gaps.
...

Finally! 

yeah you must have faith in your work even if nobody else does plenty of composers were booed off the stage when the premiered a new work
...

And don't forget he's still studying. This is one of the earliest works, of course it's not so good. 


Anyway...

Go loonbohol, go go go loonbohol!!
Yay!! 

[Derek]

lostinidlewonder:

Does encouragement have any place in music at all? I personally believe it has a very important role. Harsh and intense attention to detail and choices in composition and playing can be positive parts of one's musical development, but personally I think these things can wait until later. I think in music, just as in life, it is important to have a "musical childhood" where you are basically enjoying yourself exploring music, not caring about perfection or rules or what not, and are encouraged to explore.  Once you've had a sufficiently rich musical childhood, I think then a student becomes much more receptive to criticism and can in many cases benefit from it depending on whether the student feels he has something to learn from the teacher.

I think on the internet especially it is important to refrain from "beating down" others, simply because we don't know the person who is asking for criticism. There's a silly idea amongst men (especially) that it is manly to take criticism and beating and so forth,and I think many may ask for criticism who might not be truly prepared for it. This very thing happened to me, but thankfully not in music. It took me many years to get over it...which I am now. But I wish I hadn't sought criticism (in that other pursuit) so early in my development---the "harsh" treatment I received did me no good at all. In music on the other hand, I received nothing but encouragement and practical suggestions for improvement. I did get some harsh lessons later but I was prepared for it, having had a long and idyllic musical childhood.

Just some thoughts from my own experience...maybe one or more people might find them useful

[healdie]

Finally! 

And don't forget he's still studying. This is one of the earliest works, of course it's not so good. 

yeah Wagner didn't find his sound until he was in his thirties and Brahms was in his 40's when he finished his first symphony so compositions improve with age and practice

[lostinidlewonder]

Does encouragement have any place in music at all? I personally believe it has a very important role. Harsh and intense attention to detail and choices in composition and playing can be positive parts of one's musical development, but personally I think these things can wait until later.

I think when someone says they are seriously considering being in the league of a Chopin or Liszt they need to be brought back to reality. The composition is light years away from that quality and the irrational fear that the ideas will be stolen is putting far too much value on their creative piece of work. As a teacher I come across students who have an inflated opinion on their ability, they just don't know that they don't know, it is important that let them know that

[db05]

I miss loonbohol... 

He didn't post anymore about composing. Did he quit? Oh noes... 

[loonbohol]

Sorry but I has a periodical test. I am a student

That I have to quit piano and talking here for a while.

[loonbohol]

I have another problem that it is that every time I am away from the piano that
A very beautiful tune comes into my mind and it entices me.

But as I come near to the piano,
I forgot the tune and I cannot think of a beautiful tone.
It seems that my creativity is lost and lost!!!!!! 

It happens every time and I cannot compose if I am far from the piano.