secrets to fingering gradus ad parnassum (children's corner)

[pianistimo]

ok.  I've looked on previous threads and not found all the secrets to this piece.  I can share what i have found - and hope to get some feedback to solve some of my own problems.  Also, I am curious what fingerings debussy used (even if he never wrote fingerings in).

My first solution to the 'coming down' in measure four and measure six is to play in distinct hand positions.  ie  measure 4: 4124 5245 4124 5245  and measure 5:5135 4124 5235 4124

Also, in measure7, 8,9 the obvious lh and rh then crossover to top note.  but, in measure 11 - surprisingly i am confounded as to what debussy planned to do there.  it looks easy - but is a transition that likely wants to end on   lh 5 (or move to 5 -) on the E because if you hold your pinky very high in the keys the lh in measure 12 - you can easily play the rh portion and let the lh take all the e's - and be ready with the lh thumb to take a crossover position in measure 13.  using the rh for the lh notes G E C A with 5421 and the lh notes easily with the thumb starting on C.  It's like this magic crossover.

What do you think?  Is this what debussy had in mind?

Here is my fingering for the very beginning of the piece:

rh 123 4124 3123 5125 4124 5125 4124 5135 4123  (5 or 4)124 5125 4125 4124 5245 4124 5245 4124 3123 5124 5125  hand jump down 5135 4134 5235 4124 

[nanabush]

I played that for my Grade 10; If I remember correctly I used at the start:


rh: 123 4124 3123 5125 412(3) 5125 412(3) etc.

I remember preferring to reach my third finger rather than use my fourth which is alot weaker.

measure 11 I had some weird fingering going on there, but it fit well for me.  And each hand played their respective notes there (2 each from the groups of 4)

rh:       1 2      2 3       3 5       1 3

lh:  5 1      3 1       3 1       3 1



The parts around measure twelve I had left hand over right hand... I didn't stick to a specific fingering, I just made sure my left hand was ENTIRELY out of the way of the right hand - so ya kinda standing straight up there (usually a mix of 2nd and 3rd fingers left hand)


For measure four you might want to try:  3 1 2 4 (for all four sections)
...going from fourth finger to fifth on a lower note is pretty awkward.  Ending with fourth and proceeding with third makes it smoother (or go from 5 to 4 if you want)

It's been a super long time, but I've forgotten how fun this piece is to play; now I'm going to have to wait until tomorrow to try it out again

[jlh]

This whole topic makes me uneasy... I mean, title looks similar to the book "Secrets of the Kama Sutra" and mentions fingering something...

If that wasn't bad enough, this is something that's supposed to be acceptable in a "Children's Corner"?

 

[pianistimo]

Thank you nanabush!  This helps me see what other possibilities there are to correctly playing this.  Especially measure 11 which has been stumping me somehow.  It makes sense to play it lh and rh there because debussy seems to have written it out in a sort of secret but obvious way when you look at it - with the two lh notes obviously separated from the rh two.

And, i totally agree with the lh and rh 'thing' on the next pages.  I happened to work out the same type of fingering yesterday (although i'm not sure about all of it).  Can we work out page two today or tommorrow, nanabush?

Very funny, jlh! 

[cloches_de_geneve]

My first solution to the 'coming down' in measure four and measure six is to play in distinct hand positions.  ie  measure 4: 4124 5245 4124 5245  and measure 5:5135 4124 5235 4124

To me it's more natural to change to 3 (see below) after the first group instead of changing the hand position and start over with 5. I use:

4124 3125 4134 3124 3123 5124

But any fingering is good if you manage to change the rh semi-staccato to the legato part starting in bar 5 on e. One has to hear this change and choose fingering accordingly. 


This may be total heresy but I do not cross hands in 7+.

[pianistimo]

dear cloches de genevive,

Thanks so much for the feedback!  I'll think about all the ideas and see what works for my hands (which are a bit smaller).  I like keeping my fingers together as much as possible in comfortable hand positions - and that is why the 4-5-4 stuff.  Thanks for reminding me about the staccato and legato parts (i hadn't been playing the staccato - bad bad).  i suppose that a case can be made both ways on 7+ if debussy intended pedal anyways.  If he didn't - then one should hold the pedal as is required on the first note.  Many teachers seem to require going through a piece without pedal first - and then adding it sparingly later.  I suppose if i did that - i'd play it without crossing hands there.  susan

[nanabush]

If there's any other spots that you want feedback on, just say where!  It's actually giving me different fingering concepts for the piece too

After trying to play it for the first time in a looong time, I've realized that the first and second pages are full of nasty runs in the right hand... really frustrating

[pianistimo]

Well, in measure 12 - the best i could work out was a shared E with both hands fourth fingers.  The lh would start first - then rh - with the right hand OVER the left hand and up slightly higher in the keys.

Now, this might be crazy with the other options available such as starting with the RH - on beat one of the 13th measure - and alternating doing it that way.  But, there are certain places that are 'unstable' to find the next notes that way.

so...my fingering goes lh 4135  rh 4531 lh 4135 rh 4531 lh 4135 rh 2531 lh4135 rh 2531 lh 4135 (keep alternating)

The good thing about this fingering is you end up with RH playing last - before the a Tempo.