Learning a concerto movement?

[kelly_kelly]

My teacher has told me that she wants me to learn one movement of a concerto in the near future. But frankly, I don't see the point. I really dislike the idea of playing with second piano accompaniment. And it's not as if I need experience in ensemble playing, since I play a string instrument and have loads of chamber music opportunities. So given all this, I really don't think learning a concerto movement would be worth the anguish, because I won't have the technique to play it really well, but I probably will kill myself trying.

This is my take on it, but I would like to hear your thoughts on the matter. Maybe I'm missing something.

[richard black]

Playing a concerto is a whole different approach to the piano, because of the simple fact that you're expecting to compete with a 40-piece (give or take) orchestra. Pick an early Beethoven, or Haydn or Mozart, concerto and have some fun.

[zheer]

. Pick an early Beethoven, or Haydn or Mozart, concerto and have some fun.

  That is good advice, generally speaking it takes a very long time to reach the level of playing through a concerto, but it can be done with a lot of effort and time. Personally I had really no intention of learning a concerto, but after so many years of playing beethoven sonatas, Chopin etudes and a lot of sight reading I found that learning a concerto not too demanding. So don't panic.

[kelly_kelly]

Unfortunately, I will never get the opportunity to perform with an orchestra, because I have zero, no negative, chance of winning a concerto competition. Plus, for some unfathomable reason, she is not suggesting any classical concertos, instead pieces like the Ravel G Major, which scare the hell out of me...

[cmg]

Playing a concerto is a whole different approach to the piano, because of the simple fact that you're expecting to compete with a 40-piece (give or take) orchestra.

Good point here and the effort is well worth it.

Since you're lukewarm about the endeavor, spice up your motivation by doing a neglected composer a favor:  Howard Ferguson (Concerto in D Major) has written one of the loveliest concerti in the repertoire.  It's not all that difficult and the orchestra is scored just for strings.  That might tempt you.   

[mikey6]

why don't you learn a short concerto so then at least you'll have one under your belt (if you do decide to go ahead and learn one)  There are plenty that are 10-20 minutes long.
Mendelssohn wrote 3 apart from the concertos.
Mozart wrote 2 I think apart from the concertos
There's an early Beethoven Rondo
Strauss Burlesque
Ravel Left Hand
Prokofiev 1
Liszt Hungarian Fantasy, Totentanz (hard! though)

[richard black]

Unfortunately, I will never get the opportunity to perform with an orchestra, because I have zero, no negative, chance of winning a concerto competition.

So? I've never won a competition in my life (OK, I may have won the odd class when I was about 12, I really can't remember - but certainly nothing with a prize bigger than a pat on the back from the adjudicator) but I've played three concertos with orchestra and turned down at least 2 offers that I can recall, plus another proposed concerto fell through for reasons unconnected with me. You never know what might turn up.

[amelialw]

Unfortunately, I will never get the opportunity to perform with an orchestra, because I have zero, no negative, chance of winning a concerto competition. Plus, for some unfathomable reason, she is not suggesting any classical concertos, instead pieces like the Ravel G Major, which scare the hell out of me...

honestly, you should'nt look at it with that attitude. learning a concerto will teach you alot. you said u have learnt a piano concerto before so why not Ravel? My friend learnt it as his 1st concerto

[kelly_kelly]

Okay, looking back at my original post, I think I was in a bitter, cynical mood at the time, for reasons related and unrelated to music. I guess one movement of a classical concerto wouldn't be too bad. Maybe the first movement of Beethoven 2? Or maybe Mozart 26? But anyway, my main problem right now is that my teacher is suggesting insane things like Prokofiev 1, Shostakovich 1, Saint-Saens, Chopin... which I wouldn't DREAM of touching with a 50-foot pole. I guess I'll talk to her.

[fredericfrancoischopin]

Okay, looking back at my original post, I think I was in a bitter, cynical mood at the time, for reasons related and unrelated to music. I guess one movement of a classical concerto wouldn't be too bad. Maybe the first movement of Beethoven 2? Or maybe Mozart 26? But anyway, my main problem right now is that my teacher is suggesting insane things like Prokofiev 1, Shostakovich 1, Saint-Saens, Chopin... which I wouldn't DREAM of touching with a 50-foot pole. I guess I'll talk to her.

kelly_kelly are you cute???

try rach 3 or rach 2 -very easy concertos

lol

Bernard

[communist]

or how about the Busoni concerto? short and not to hard

[tanman]

You should do a Xenakis Concerto! 

[franzliszt2]

I think you should learn a concerto, even if you are not going to perform it. It teaches you a lot, and it really teaches you to work within limits. For example, you can't pull the tempo around too much, and you get a different sense of balance, becasue you may have to play louder, or softer depending on the orchestra. It is very different from chamber music, because in chamber music, it is more of a musical collaboration, wheras with a concerto, you spend a lot of time as the soloist, and the orchestra tend to follow you. Therefore, you are much more in control. You als learn to be very direct with your ideas, becasue you have to be, otherwise the orchetsra just won't respond. In chamber music you can discuss small details, and work on them, whereas with an orchestra you tend to have very few rehearsals and they are not very long!

[anne126]

The second movement of Beethoven's Fifth concerto is comparatively simple, and sounds very beautiful without the orchestral accompaniment.

It wouldn't take more than a week to learn either; depending how talented you are (and I assume you're very experienced if your teacher is suggesting a concerto movement), and if you can practice for 3-4 hours a day.

[kelly_kelly]

The second movement of Beethoven's Fifth concerto is comparatively simple, and sounds very beautiful without the orchestral accompaniment.

It wouldn't take more than a week to learn either; depending how talented you are (and I assume you're very experienced if your teacher is suggesting a concerto movement), and if you can practice for 3-4 hours a day.

Unfortunately, I am neither talented nor experienced, and definitely don't have 3-4 hours to practice every day. If it were up to me, I would not attempt a concerto yet. But on the other hand, I do trust my teacher, and I think a concerto I really love might motivate me, so I'm not sure... I'll see her tomorrow, and I guess we'll discuss this then.

[pianisten1989]

And you shouldn't play that second movement, Since it's kind of an introduction. And It takes more than a week to learn it...

[jinfiesto]

I agree, it can be very hard to learn a concerto movement, and not for the technical difficulty involved. It's just hard because it's not that immediately rewarding. Concerti for the most part sound pretty crappy without orchestra. But there are some wonderful concerti that aren't that difficult. I certainly wouldn't go for the Chopin, or the Saint Saens, the Saint Saens G minor is MONSTROUS. The Shosty 1 isn't that hard. You could dry the Bach D minor, or any of the Bach concerti for that matter. And the Schumann and Grieg Concerti are both wonderful, and are very similar. You may even consider learning both. I personally prefer the Schumann. Also, the Mendelssohn g minor is very accessible. I had a friend learn the liszt concerto as her first concerti, and although she never plays it, she asserts it was a great learning experience. I've played three concerti, and am currently working on a fourth, the Prok 3, and while it seems like playing with second piano would be awful, it's actually not all bad, frankly, I enjoy it more than I enjoy playing solo, especially if there's a real sense of rapport between you and the other pianist.

You'll have to forgive your teacher. Sometimes I think they get a little out of touch with what we mere mortals happen to be capable of at the moment. . Just use your better judgement, and find a piece that you like that you think is in your range of ability.

If you're in a mood to be challenged, you could learn both parts and accompany yourself. There's a guy on youtube who has a video of him accompanying himself playing the Rach 2. Obviously he mixed the two tracks together after the fact, but it could be fun

[jepoy]

Go for it!

There are so many concertos to choose from and you are bound to find one that fits you technically and musically. Even within big concertos, there are slow movements that are beautiful and not at all difficult.

My suggestions: 2nd mov of Bach F minor, 3rd mov of Mendelssohn G minor, 2nd mov of Grieg, 1st mov of Saint Saens #2 (well, a little more difficult but I love it! feels like an etude, lots of technical stuff and yet very musical too).

Good luck and happy practicing!

p.s. I suggest you get a really good accompanist to play second piano to bring out the orchestral effects. It makes such a big difference!