Piano Forum

Pages: [1] Go Down

Topic: Best Hammerklavier Edition (Read 15617 times)

firediscovery

PS Silver Member
Newbie
Posts: 6

For Beethoven's Sonata No. 29 Op. 106 "Hammerklavier", what is the overall best edition. What I look for in an edition is clear pedal markings and fingerings, dynamics and articulations (accents, staccato, etc.), explanations/commentary (in english, usually found at the bottom), expression markings (expressivo, marcato, etc.), tempo markings, large and clear notation, and overall neatness. Based on the qualities above, what would the best edition?

What I do when I study and play a piece is I get one very clear, neat, and accurate edition. Then, I find some cheaper editions with lots of fingerings, commentary, pedal markings, and expressions/articulations. I just write in all the notes onto my first edition. It takes some work, but I find it helps. What would be a best first edition for neatness, accuracy, etc. So, what are some very useful editions that I can get for a cheap price or find on the internet?

Logged

pianisten1989

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1515

Re: Best Hammerklavier Edition

Reply #1 on: December 13, 2008, 08:13:18 PM

You really like the "Which is the Best"-posts, huh?

Anyways, the Urtext edition is the best for everything in the classical era.

Logged

jlh

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2352

Re: Best Hammerklavier Edition

Reply #2 on: December 13, 2008, 08:17:53 PM

Quote from: firediscovery on December 13, 2008, 07:47:23 PM

For Beethoven's Sonata No. 29 Op. 106 "Hammerklavier", what is the overall best edition. What I look for in an edition is clear pedal markings and fingerings, dynamics and articulations (accents, staccato, etc.), explanations/commentary (in english, usually found at the bottom), expression markings (expressivo, marcato, etc.), tempo markings, large and clear notation, and overall neatness. Based on the qualities above, what would the best edition?

What I do when I study and play a piece is I get one very clear, neat, and accurate edition. Then, I find some cheaper editions with lots of fingerings, commentary, pedal markings, and expressions/articulations. I just write in all the notes onto my first edition. It takes some work, but I find it helps. What would be a best first edition for neatness, accuracy, etc. So, what are some very useful editions that I can get for a cheap price or find on the internet?

If you want an edition that will help with performance issues relating to all the Beethoven sonatas, there is none better than the Schnabel edition.

Artur Schnabel (April 17, 1882 – August 15, 1951) was an Austrian classical pianist, who also composed and taught. Schnabel was renowned for his intellectual seriousness as a musician, avoiding anything resembling pure technical bravura. He is widely considered to be one of the greatest pianists of the 20th century, whose vitality, profundity and spiritual penetration in his playing of works by Beethoven and Schubert, in particular, have seldom if ever been surpassed.

“The notes I handle no better than many pianists. But the pauses between the notes—ah, that is where the art resides.”
--Artur Schnabel

Logged

. ROFL : ROFL:LOL:ROFL : ROFL '
___/\___
L   ______/    \
LOL "”””””””\    [ ] \
L      \_________)
   ___I___I___/

mike_lang

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1496

Re: Best Hammerklavier Edition

Reply #3 on: December 14, 2008, 02:36:11 PM

Why not just use the Henle urtext like most?

ML

Logged

cmg

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1042

Re: Best Hammerklavier Edition

Reply #4 on: December 14, 2008, 03:43:08 PM

Quote from: michael_langlois on December 14, 2008, 02:36:11 PM

Why not just use the Henle urtext like most?

ML

I'm not so sure that is true. I think just as many pianists use Schnabel as Henle.

And the Schnabel Edition has the distinct benefit of including Schnabel's scholarship and performance experience down to the smallest detail. Schnabel was among the very greatest of Beethoven interpreters. It's an extraordinary document that any pianist, at the very least, should consult when studying a Beethoven Sonata.

Logged

Current repertoire: "Come to Jesus" (in whole-notes)

quantum

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 6260

Re: Best Hammerklavier Edition

Reply #5 on: December 14, 2008, 08:52:02 PM

Personally, I use the Peters (Arrau) edition for learning. I would consult several others such as Henle and Schnabel.

Schirmer, if you want some comedic relief to your study.

Logged

Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

pianistimo

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 12142

Re: Best Hammerklavier Edition

Reply #6 on: December 14, 2008, 09:05:31 PM

Henle is good for some things and Schnabel is good for other things. I like the idea of combining several to glean whatever one can. After all, nobody has the same hand size so fingering in one might be better for one person than fingering in another. Some guys have large hand reaches. As a woman, I personally like to use little tricks of my own that include using the thumb or pinky slides from black to white note and don't worry so much about perfect phrasing - as perfect fingering. Once you get the fingering in order, you can practice at a better speed which automatically helps your phrasing. And, you can put passion into it - rather than attempting to 'square it all.' Squaring to me means just observing one person's point of view.

However, Schnabel has some good editors notes (as does Henle - but they seem to be a different focus). Schnabel kind of talks to you - and Henle at you. Maybe i'm wrong.

PS i've not played the hammerklavier yet - so just take this for what it's worth.

Logged

richard black

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2104

Re: Best Hammerklavier Edition

Reply #7 on: December 15, 2008, 07:27:44 PM

https://www.tecla.com/catalog/1001.htm

looks interesting. But I wouldn't want to have just one edition, ideally - Henle (and/or other Urtext), Schnabel, Tovey, Liszt, Bülow, they all have things to say.

Logged

Instrumentalists are all wannabe singers. Discuss.

pianowolfi

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 5654

Re: Best Hammerklavier Edition

Reply #8 on: December 15, 2008, 08:08:17 PM

Quote from: pianistimo on December 14, 2008, 09:05:31 PM

Henle is good for some things and Schnabel is good for other things. I like the idea of combining several to glean whatever one can. After all, nobody has the same hand size so fingering in one might be better for one person than fingering in another. Some guys have large hand reaches. As a woman, I personally like to use little tricks of my own that include using the thumb or pinky slides from black to white note and don't worry so much about perfect phrasing - as perfect fingering. Once you get the fingering in order, you can practice at a better speed which automatically helps your phrasing. And, you can put passion into it - rather than attempting to 'square it all.' Squaring to me means just observing one person's point of view.

However, Schnabel has some good editors notes (as does Henle - but they seem to be a different focus). Schnabel kind of talks to you - and Henle at you. Maybe i'm wrong.

PS i've not played the hammerklavier yet - so just take this for what it's worth.

I have heard you play Beethoven op. 10,3 first mvt. live at your home last year, I remember

I was quite impressed, I think that you have a very good potential. I would suggest you to work through this and some four or five other sonatas, and then perhaps tackle the Hammerklavier

It's worth the time and effort

Logged

pianowolfi

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 5654

Re: Best Hammerklavier Edition

Reply #9 on: December 15, 2008, 08:20:50 PM

Quote from: richard black on December 15, 2008, 07:27:44 PM

looks interesting. But I wouldn't want to have just one edition, ideally - Henle (and/or other Urtext), Schnabel, Tovey, Liszt, Bülow, they all have things to say.

I second this, I haven't got Schnabel yet, unfortunately. Bülow helped me a lot. Normally I use Henle.

Logged

allemande

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 45

Re: Best Hammerklavier Edition

Reply #10 on: December 19, 2008, 04:43:30 PM

I haven't seen the Schnabel but everyone talks about it so i'll have to look into it. I personally use Arrau's peters edition. It's good, i really can't complain except that it is full of very uncomfortable and odd fingerings sometimes. As for Schirmer...i have to give them credit on the Beethoven Concertos, very good editions

Logged

jcfelice88keys

PS Silver Member
Newbie
Posts: 4

Re: Best Hammerklavier Edition

Reply #11 on: December 27, 2008, 10:54:50 PM

Hello FireDiscovery and others,

Regarding the Hammerklavier fugue, I would recommend two sources of study, although these are not performing editions:

1) The appendix to JSBach's WTC Book #1 edited by Busoni has a marvelous discussion of the various aspects of the Hammerklavier Fugue, printed on three staves with extensive commentary and analysis.

2) Andras Schiff's Beethoven Lectures, found on the Internet (Google search the Beethoven Lectures for the URL) has over an hour of spoken monologue about the entire Sonata Opus 106, including piano examples. Topics include a very insightful discussion of the Fugue, plus very interesting interpretative subjects. For example: Schiff discusses why the opening measures of the first movement must be played with only the left hand.

I hope this sheds light for you on this subject.

Joe <jcfelice88keys>

Logged

Sign-up to post reply

Pages: [1] Go Up

For more information about this topic, click search below!

Piano Street Magazine:
When Practice Stagnates – Breaking the Performance Ceiling: Robotic Training for Pianists

“Practice makes perfect” is a common mantra for any pianist, but we all know it’s an oversimplification. While practice often leads to improvement, true perfection is elusive. But according to recent research, a robotic exoskeleton hand could help pianists improve their speed of performing difficult pianistic patterns, by overcoming the well-known “ceiling effect”. Read more

Piano Forum

Topic: Best Hammerklavier Edition (Read 15617 times)

Piano Street Magazine:When Practice Stagnates – Breaking the Performance Ceiling: Robotic Training for Pianists

Piano Street Magazine:
When Practice Stagnates – Breaking the Performance Ceiling: Robotic Training for Pianists