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pro-hanon vs anti-hanon (Read 49324 times)

Offline david456103

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #150 on: January 11, 2014, 01:32:43 PM »
i've used hanon for about 6 months when i was 9(stopped using it after), and I think it really helped some aspects of my technique. I would recommend it, but I don't think a pianist needs to do it forever

Offline brendan765

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #151 on: January 23, 2014, 03:42:35 PM »
I played the whole book a few years back and yes it is very useful in learning scales. It was boring, dull, robotic and at times frustrating. I reccomend Hannon once you can sightread descent and are looking to develop your technique. Why Hanon can Develop technique easier than others? When I was nearly done with the book I did decide to play the whole book through probably almost ten times just for the hell of it. By then my technique was pretty good.
1) It's easy and progressive which allows you to focus on relaxing wrist and elbow muscles, correct movements of hands, etc.
There is so much still to be created. 88 keys, you do the math. ∞

Offline ahinton

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #152 on: January 23, 2014, 06:08:05 PM »
More years ago than I care to remember, I got the Hanon exercises of my own volition and went through them quite diligently for a while largely with the aim of trying to ascertain whether they'd help me to figure out why I hadn't the slightest natural ability to play the instrument in spite of my abiding interest in it. They didn't. They did nothing to help my "facility" (or rather lack thereof) either. One problem that I found with them is that they all require the use of both thumbs and all eight fingers and so there are no digits left to put on one's ears while working at them.

I can see what they're supposedly for, obviously, but spending more than a few minutes at them on a non-daily basis might risk dulling one's musical sensibilities or even, in extreme cases, putting one off playing altogether. I have often said that the pianist who can perform really well the études of Chopin, Liszt and Alkan as well as the Chopin/Godowsky ones is equipped to tackle almost anything in the piano repertoire, however challenging it may be. OK, a whole lot of that - especially the last named - will be beyond the wit and fingers of most pianists under the age of 14 but, for them, what's so wrong or so comparatively limited in use with practising scales and arpeggios - not just by rote or always one octave apart as in the books of them but more inventively - bitonal scales and arpeggios, or three octaves apart, or in all keys but using the standard fingering for C major - and not neglecting some single and double note scales in thirds, fourths &c.? - provided that undue amounts of time are not spent on too much this - and then there's also the WTC, whose value in developing keyboard skills should never be underestimated!

Or maybe the best thing to do with Hanon is what's happend on this thread; leave it alone for around five years, return to thinking about it for abit and then abandon them for another five years or so...

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
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The Sorabji Archive

Offline timothy42b

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #153 on: January 23, 2014, 07:24:18 PM »
I have found it possible, in fact easy, to do exercises diligently but not benefit from them, because I was doing them wrong. 

It seems to me that Hanon might indeed be valuable if you had a teacher very attuned to mechanics who ensured you were doing them correctly and using them to perfect correct motion.

It seems highly likely to me that the time spent selfteaching Hanon is probably better put towards watching reality TV. 
Tim

Offline j_menz

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #154 on: January 23, 2014, 10:08:13 PM »
It seems highly likely to me that the time spent selfteaching Hanon is probably better put towards watching reality TV. 

Even I, no Hanon fan, would not go quite that far!  :o
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline timothy42b

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #155 on: January 24, 2014, 03:14:14 AM »
Even I, no Hanon fan, would not go quite that far!  :o

Think about it though, even the worst TV show isn't going to ingrain bad technique. 

Practicing wrong can be worse than not practicing at all.
Tim

Offline j_menz

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #156 on: January 24, 2014, 03:26:09 AM »
Think about it though, even the worst TV show isn't going to ingrain bad technique. 

Practicing wrong can be worse than not practicing at all.

Well, there's RSI from using the remote to make it all go away.

Also, the resultant dulling of all one's aesthetic senses would make any good technique pointless.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline ahinton

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #157 on: January 25, 2014, 05:17:41 PM »
Also, the resultant dulling of all one's aesthetic senses would make any good technique pointless.
Dulling by what? Hanon? Reality TV? Or - heaven help us all - both?(!)...

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline j_menz

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #158 on: January 27, 2014, 10:38:39 PM »
Dulling by what? Hanon? Reality TV? Or - heaven help us all - both?(!)...

Best,

Alistair

It is possible to do Hanon without dulling one's senses, although it can have this outcome if one is not careful.

Reality TV, however, seems to have that as it's whole raison d'etre. Were Marx around today, it would be this he chose as his opiate.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline awesom_o

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #159 on: January 28, 2014, 12:02:44 PM »
TV is weak-ass sauce for people who can't play music.

Hanon is even worse!

At least there's South Park on TV.

There's nothing good in Hanon.

Offline pianistaw

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #160 on: January 28, 2014, 12:59:51 PM »
You got a thing with weak-ass sauce awesom_o?  ;D
Etude Quinte Op. 42 No. 6, Rautavaara
Prelude No. 2, WTC 1, Bach
Prelude Op. 23 No. 5, Rachmaninoff
Fugue No. 2, WTC 1, Bach
Etude Op. 10 No. 12, Chopin
Piano Concerto No. 2 Op. 18, Rachmaninoff

Offline timothy42b

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #161 on: January 28, 2014, 04:26:39 PM »
Quote from: j_menz


Reality TV, however, seems to have that as it's whole raison d'etre. Were Marx around today, it would be this he chose as his opiate.

I'm not a fan of any TV, and reality TV is generally worse.  But I'm watching one series now, Curse of Oak Island on History Channel.  It's badly done, but it's about an actual mystery, and one of the more interesting historical puzzles that exist. 
Tim

Offline pianoplunker

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #162 on: January 29, 2014, 02:41:27 AM »
I'm am sure this topic has been discussed before but I wanted to throw it out there of who is pro-hanon and who is anti-hanon and why?

Personally I discarded hanon for a couple of years, where before I was playing hanon exercises as warm-ups.  I am not sure why but I have gone back to them but I have started going through the exercises slowly, HS as part of my practice routine.  I know they don't have a great deal of musical value,  I believe if approached in the right way can build endurance and finger strength.

Cheers

Hanon who?

Offline awesom_o

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #163 on: January 29, 2014, 03:59:20 AM »
You got a thing with weak-ass sauce awesom_o?  ;D

I like sauce to be flavourful and delicious.

Weak sauce makes me  >:(

Offline pianoplunker

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #164 on: January 29, 2014, 04:43:13 AM »
I have found it possible, in fact easy, to do exercises diligently but not benefit from them, because I was doing them wrong. 

It seems to me that Hanon might indeed be valuable if you had a teacher very attuned to mechanics who ensured you were doing them correctly and using them to perfect correct motion.

It seems highly likely to me that the time spent selfteaching Hanon is probably better put towards watching reality TV. 

Great post but now you have possibly started a new reality TV Show. "The Hanon Hour"  . In 60 minutes a top piano performer will play thru the entire book. I am almost certain anybody from Piano Street could do it .  I'll watch

Offline ahinton

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #165 on: January 29, 2014, 05:09:50 PM »
Great post but now you have possibly started a new reality TV Show. "The Hanon Hour"  . In 60 minutes a top piano performer will play thru the entire book. I am almost certain anybody from Piano Street could do it .  I'll watch
I'll watch out to make sure that I avoid it!

There's also Schönberg's The Book of the Hanon Gardens. There are many works by the famous but unnameable composer widely known as "'Anon". Then again, there's the Korean international forum on which information can be found at www.han-on.org and a video about it at
. But where pianos and their players are concerned, if Charles, then Alkan, if Louis, then Kentner or Lortie and if 'Anon, then ymity, s'il vous plaît!

Hanon studied the organ in his native Normandy but little else seems to be known about his career in music, such as it may or may not have been. He was a Third Order Franciscan and a member of the Société de St. Vincent de Paul and became involved with the rather forbidding sounding monastic order Les Frères Ignorantins, otherwise known as Les Frères des Écoles Chrétiennes, that was founded in Reims in 1684 by Saint Jean-Baptiste de La Salle to provide free education (though not, I imagine, free champagne) to poor children.

Little evidence appears to point to Hanon being a major 19th century French piano pedagogue.

Rachmaninov and Lhévinne's evident endorsement of Hanon's The Virtuoso Pianist is all very well and clearly not to be ignored and the exercises contained in them have long since become standard fare in Russian conservatoires, yet its approach to the total independence of every finger that their regular use aims to develop seems to me to be of sadly limited scope; vastly more of this is to be found in the Studien über die Etüden von Chopin by Godowsky, where such technical issues (as well as no end of others) have to be addressed at all times hand in hand with musical ones.

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline slobone

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #166 on: January 30, 2014, 07:35:05 PM »
Considering this is at least the umpy-umpth Hanon thread here, I can only repeat what I've said before. I find Hanon invaluable for warming up, getting my fingers moving, especially if I've been away from the piano for a few days. If you find it boring increase the level of difficulty. Here are some things you can do to make Hanon more challenging:

1) play in every key (always using the same fingering)

2) play in triplets (accenting every third note)

3) play faster (I'm working on mm = 126 right now)

The advantages of Hanon over other forms of exercise are

1) it's a great workout for the left hand

2) you don't have to focus on phrasing, dynamics, articulation, etc. Just play the notes.

3) they're easy to learn, so you don't have to spend half your time learning the piece. That's my objection to Czerny etc.

Of course if you feel any pain in your hands, shoulders etc, stop immediately and do something else.

Offline pianoplunker

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #167 on: January 30, 2014, 09:49:18 PM »

The advantages of Hanon over other forms of exercise are

1) it's a great workout for the left hand

2) you don't have to focus on phrasing, dynamics, articulation, etc. Just play the notes.

3) they're easy to learn, so you don't have to spend half your time learning the piece. That's my objection to Czerny etc.

Of course if you feel any pain in your hands, shoulders etc, stop immediately and do something else.

disclaimer : I am not Anti-Hanon, I have spent quite a few hours with it myself.
It is not useless IMHO, but, your statement #2 is where the argument starts against Hanon. Why spend time on any excersizes if articulation and dynamics is not part of it. 

Offline future_maestro

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #168 on: January 31, 2014, 02:19:16 AM »
I've played through the hanons, and I can tell you that nothing has helped my playing more. Not only does it build strength in the individual fingers, but the scale section in the middle also provides dexterity.

I am a true believer in Hanon and Czerny exercises.
"To play a wrong note is insignificant;
to play without passion is inexcusable."
    - Ludwig van Beethoven

Offline pianoplunker

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #169 on: January 31, 2014, 07:26:55 AM »
I am a true believer in Hanon and Czerny exercises.

Yes you are. But to be true,you must raise your hands high above your head and shout, " I believe". I will do it with you - " I believe... oh Hanon, I believe"  Doesnt it feel good to believe ?

Offline ngo_dustin

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #170 on: February 03, 2014, 03:12:53 AM »
I know that there might be some that will disagree, but personally, I think that Pischna is a great source of piano exercises. Hanon is good for mostly scales, MAYBE arpeggios. I'm not too familiar with Czerny so I won't say anything about that.

Offline slobone

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #171 on: February 07, 2014, 04:12:10 PM »
disclaimer : I am not Anti-Hanon, I have spent quite a few hours with it myself.
It is not useless IMHO, but, your statement #2 is where the argument starts against Hanon. Why spend time on any excersizes if articulation and dynamics is not part of it.  

Because I don't want to have to work on everything all the time. I do plenty of articulation, dynamics, and phrasing when I get to my pieces. Hanon is comparable to warm ups you might do before an athletic event -- you focus on one thing at a time. And anyway, it's not as if I don't think about articulation & dynamics with Hanon -- I do them all legato and ff. (&PS I never do more than twenty minutes a day.)

Offline pelagato

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Re: pro-hanon vs anti-hanon
«Reply #172 on: November 16, 2014, 12:05:24 AM »
I am in a bit of a crossroad... I played piano as a child and teen, then everything went haywire when I finish high school and blah blah, turns out that I am back again into piano playing...

Back in the day, I used to play Hanon, Herz, Czerny, Kohler... etc... But that was years ago...Playing Hanon was a cool thing to do in those days but right now, after reaching my late 20s...  I notice that Hanon is not exactly what it used to be...

The first part of Hanon feels so bland and helpless... Scales are great as well as a few extra things related to scales and arpeggios... Probably because Scales, Arpeggios and Chords are useful all around.

That is probably why I no longer like Hanon that much, I just get up, play some Scales, Arpeggios and Chords and I get more benefits all around the board, like dexterity, warmup, technic, better understanding of music, etc...

Now when it comes to Czerny... That is another story for another day.