The fascination with Rachmaninoff?

[cfluke]

This thread is hilarious

Funny thing that OP decided he liked the Second Concerto. That seems to me to be very classic Rachmaninoff. Great melodies that lend themselves to interesting and dramatic chord progressions.

I do not perceive any “empty” virtuosity in Rachmaninoff, unlike Liszt. That comment is a bit odd to me. Consider his Vocalise or an easier Etude Tableau like Op 33, No 2 (C minor - the numberings are all over the place, so I hope no. 2 is right)

[danielo]

I love Rachmaninov. I think if anything he's under-rated rather than over-rated.......even if Ashkenazy did say he was his favourite composer. He was writing unashamedly romantic pieces when the musical world around him had supposedly moved on......where are all those atonal 'modern' pieces now?
Anyone has a right to say they like or don't like a composer or a piece......I can't stand the 'Hammerklavier' even though it's meant to be the greatest of Beethoven's sonatas. But there you are.

[blazekenny]

I am personally not a great fan of Rachmaninoff myself. I find it likable, but compared to the music of say, Bach or Schubert, it seems a little empty and missing something honest and deep to me.
Interestingly, some of my most favorite pianists (Moravec, Barenboim, Arrau, Brendel, Schnabel) have never played Rachmaninoff in public, although each of them had an enormous repertoire. Rubinstein only recorded the second concerto and Paganini rhapsody, but played it very seldom, to my knowledge at least.

On the Liszt and empty virtuosity thing : Liszt is perhaps very uneven when it comes to quality of his music. I am pretty sure that you didnt mean pieces like his b minor sonata, 3 petrarch sonnets, or the finest of his etudes. Also, Liszt, like him or not, is a much greater innovator in music than Rachmaninoff, being the father of the symphonic poem, impressionism, or even atonal music.

Lastly, I would like to say that Rachmaninoff was a great composer and even greater pianist. I feel his pieces are "unfinished" and are to be finished by a top pianist, of his own quality, because his recordings of his own music suddenly elevate the music to a whole another quality level.
I also love some Lhevinne´s recordings of Rachmaninoff, Richter´s recordings of Etudes-Tableux, Horowitz´ second sonata, and Vondráček´s third concerto. When played by your typical everyday pianist like Lugansky, not so much.

Just my 2 cents though

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Your no. 1 Rachmaninoff fan here

Whoever said rach is flashy and trashy is an idiot.

LISZT and CHOPIN ETUDES are flashy and trashy.

[mjames]

Your no. 1 Rachmaninoff fan here

Whoever said rach is flashy and trashy is an idiot.

LISZT and CHOPIN ETUDES are flashy and trashy.

eve alexas texas is classier than rachmaninoff

[fftransform]

some of my most favorite pianists (Moravec, Barenboim, Arrau, Brendel, Schnabel)

Bad opinions compounded upon bad opinions.  Do you not like Seinfeld or bacon, either?

BRENDULL

[fftransform]

LISZT and CHOPIN ETUDES are flashy and trashy.

How's it going assembling your own orchestra to play the Rach 3???  ahaha


Skeptopotamus-approved BS

[blazekenny]

Bad opinions compounded upon bad opinions.  Do you not like Seinfeld or bacon, either?

BRENDULL

Elaborate or go away

[mjames]

Elaborate or go away

why would you want her to elaborate a burn
are you a masochist?

[cfluke]

I also love Liszt. I dream of playing Chasse-Neige. I think in addition to the innovation of the symphonic poem, his Transcendental Etudes are startlingly original and some of his late work hinted at Impressionism.

Rachmaninoff is an absolute joy to listen to. I would go as far as to say no other composer gives me the goosebumps the way that he does. Second Piano Concerto, Second Sonata, Prelude Op 32. No 10, etude Tableau Op. 39 No. 5. Oof! That said, I don’t think he was generally as innovative as some of the other greats. I think you can hear a lot of his music prefigured in Chopin and others. The Etudes-Tableaux are an exception - I think he really did expand the musical range a piano can express with some of those. But even then, I’d probably give the edge to Liszt’s Transcendental Etudes.

[blazekenny]

why would you want her to elaborate a burn
are you a masochist?

I don´t see how was I burned though. By being an admirer of Brendel ? His recordings of the Schubert sonatas (D959, D850!!!) are out of this world...

[rachmaninoff_forever]

How's it going assembling your own orchestra to play the Rach 3???  ahaha


Skeptopotamus-approved BS

I ALREADY GOT ONE

I think idk

[beethovenfan01]

This thread is just so ...

HUH?

[visitor]

meanwhile at one of last weekend's many Rachmaninoff concerts

[blazekenny]

meanwhile at one of last weekend's many Rachmaninoff concerts

Thats exactly how I would describe his music. Rachmaninoff doesn't have admirers, but fanboys, just like in popmusic. Rachmaninoff's music benefits heavily from the hectic age of youtube's snippets, being so approachable, melodic and dramatic. Nowadays people are losing focus or the will to concentrate on deep, naked music, such as Brahms' intermezzi or Schubert's Moments musicaux. That being said, I think he is still a very distinctive composer of great invention, just maybe a little bit overrated. Not as much here in Europe, but for some reason, in the US people seem to value him even more than Bach.

[clouseau]

visitor: LOL

This weird thread from 2008 keeps popping up, so that I would rather ask "What is the fascination with this thread?"

anyway

Wondering why there is fascination with Rachmaninoff, is similar to doubting that he is a great composer. Because if you agreed he is one of the greats, you wouldn't wonder why people are fascinated. Maybe you just don't like him, after all, Rachmaninoff is not for everybody. But that he was one of the truly greats, I think that is beyond doubt.

[klavieronin]

I had no idea Rachmaninoff was such a polarising figure. Judging by this thread alone you'd think he was the Justin Bieber of the classical world.

[danielo]

I think Rachmaninov was writing slightly out of his time. He wasn't an experimenter, he just wrote in, and mastered, the Romantic musical style. Is he as great as Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin? Probably not, in that his music wasn't saying anything new, and didn't advance the form in the way those great composers did. But in terms of communicating beauty, sadness, joy, longing, passion, he's undoubtedly a great. His use of big, powerful chords is probably his trademark, there's a depth and richness to his sound that marks him out immediately.

[clouseau]

Interesting that you mention Bach, who was a composer out of his time as well. Bach wrote in a style and in forms that had gone out of fashion, but reached the highest mastery within their limitations. And that is also the case imo with Rachmaninoff and music of the romantic era. Therefore the emotional depth of his music is really unsurpassed.

[danielo]

Interesting that you mention Bach, who was a composer out of his time as well. Bach wrote in a style and in forms that had gone out of fashion, but reached the highest mastery within their limitations. And that is also the case imo with Rachmaninoff and music of the romantic era. Therefore the emotional depth of his music is really unsurpassed.

That is a very good point! 
You're right, Bach was out of his time as well. Handel and other contemporaries shunned him, he was quite isolated as a composer towards the end of his life. Mozart discovered his music relatively late in in his development, as it was hardly played by then, but recognised his greatness.
I hadn't seen the link before but you are quite right.

[cfluke]

Thats exactly how I would describe his music. Rachmaninoff doesn't have admirers, but fanboys, just like in popmusic. Rachmaninoff's music benefits heavily from the hectic age of youtube's snippets, being so approachable, melodic and dramatic. Nowadays people are losing focus or the will to concentrate on deep, naked music, such as Brahms' intermezzi or Schubert's Moments musicaux. That being said, I think he is still a very distinctive composer of great invention, just maybe a little bit overrated. Not as much here in Europe, but for some reason, in the US people seem to value him even more than Bach.

If he's not your cup of tea, that's fine, but trying to read some deficiency in people who do appreciate him is absurd (speaking as someone who enjoys the Brahms intermezzi). One could just as easily and wrongly opine that the only people who like Schubert are those who are incapable of following any music that expresses tonality anything other than the simplest way.

I think Rachmaninoff has a fairly unique sound that manages to balance significant flexibility with tonality and harmony without ever really becoming atonal. In addition, he's a master of counterpoint, but unlike Baroque-style counterpoint, it's seldom the entire purpose of a piece, just strategically deployed for emotional effect.